Pre Season conference rankings

Joined
Feb 26, 2017
Messages
488
Likes
237
#3
Please keep to conference realignment.
That's the context.

If UConn looks to other conferences in realignment, here are top conferences
1) ACC
2) Big East
3) Big 12
4) Big Ten
5) SEC
6) AAC
7) PAC
8) A-10

Like the AAC there's no football money, but the Big East would be better for your hoops!
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2018
Messages
24
Likes
38
#6
PAC 12 with 3 teams in last year’s tournament. None of them made it to the second round. American with 3 as well—in a year with a down UConn and Memphis not represented. Pivoting to
Football, the league is entering its second straight week with 3 teams in the Top-25, one of which in the top-10. Don’t look now but this league is climbing quickly in revenue sports.
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
3,714
Likes
1,221
#7
The problem for those teams is, right now, that they have not had the schedule to gain a lot of respect...

UCF...SOS #121

Cincinnati...SOS #118

USF....SOS # 107

Lose a game, and it's a fall...
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2018
Messages
24
Likes
38
#8
No question the SOS is a concern. UConn isn't doing any favors to the league (nor is ECU) but these programs are rebuilding and will get better. With an injection of newfound revenue (new media deal with "multiples" of incumbent framework coming June 30) I'd expect these bottom-tier teams to improve--and quickly.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
Messages
550
Likes
435
#9
The problem for those teams is, right now, that they have not had the schedule to gain a lot of respect...

UCF...SOS #121

Cincinnati...SOS #118

USF....SOS # 107

Lose a game, and it's a fall...
This post was about basketball... so I'm not sure what those football teams have to do with anything.
 

Purple Stein

I like to sim things.
Joined
Jul 9, 2017
Messages
1,013
Likes
1,500
#10
That's the context.

If UConn looks to other conferences in realignment, here are top conferences
1) ACC
2) Big East
3) Big 12
4) Big Ten
5) SEC
6) AAC
7) PAC
8) A-10

Like the AAC there's no football money, but the Big East would be better for your hoops!
Do you honestly believe that long-term? That Georgetown, St. Johns, Villanova, and Xavier will be able to maintain a basketball profile greater than UConn, Memphis, Cincinnati, and Houston?

Football drives the bus. As time passes, I think the AAC will define it's niche as the "6th" football league and will blow past the Big East in basketball. Most of the non-football schools -- including Wichita -- are headed toward a "St. Bonaventure/A-10" kind of future over the next 20 years, IMHO. I can sort of see the blog posts from the year 2035 about the "Once great Big East..."
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2018
Messages
24
Likes
38
#11
Do you honestly believe that long-term? That Georgetown, St. Johns, Villanova, and Xavier will be able to maintain a basketball profile greater than UConn, Memphis, Cincinnati, and Houston?

Football drives the bus. As time passes, I think the AAC will define it's niche as the "6th" football league and will blow past the Big East in basketball. Most of the non-football schools -- including Wichita -- are headed toward a "St. Bonaventure/A-10" kind of future over the next 20 years, IMHO. I can sort of see the blog posts from the year 2035 about the "Once great Big East..."
Exactly. FS1 NBE payout will grow to be a mere fraction of the AAC’s. As a hoops-first fan it’s hard to admit but the future in The American is far brighter than in a league like the NBE. With the exception of Villanova, none of the NBE jobs are destinations. Xavier has been a job filled and voided every 5 years by coaches who’ve gone onto bigger jobs (Skip, Sean Miller, Matta, Mack) meanwhile formerly heralded jobs like St. John’s & Georgetown may hold nostalgic value but fail to move the needle for new hires (hence alums like Mullin & Ewing taking the helm, respectively). Meanwhile in The American let’s not forget the league had two preseason top-10 teams last year and a team earn a #2 seed. If UConn still calls The American home a decade from now, it’s more likely that Nova has gone FBS (a perennial FCS power) and joined the league than UConn’s gone backwards to the NBE.
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
3,714
Likes
1,221
#12
This post was about basketball... so I'm not sure what those football teams have to do with anything.
How about this part of the post...

"Football, the league is entering its second straight week with 3 teams in the Top-25, one of which in the top-10. Don’t look now but this league is climbing quickly in revenue sports."

Or did you quit reading after basketball...
 
Joined
Feb 26, 2017
Messages
488
Likes
237
#13
Do you honestly believe that long-term? That Georgetown, St. Johns, Villanova, and Xavier will be able to maintain a basketball profile greater than UConn, Memphis, Cincinnati, and Houston?

Football drives the bus. As time passes, I think the AAC will define it's niche as the "6th" football league and will blow past the Big East in basketball. Most of the non-football schools -- including Wichita -- are headed toward a "St. Bonaventure/A-10" kind of future over the next 20 years, IMHO. I can sort of see the blog posts from the year 2035 about the "Once great Big East..."
Well, they already wrote "Requiem for the Big East" assuming it was dead, and since then the Big East has been very competitive and a top 2 or 3 conference.

I agree football drives the bus for the P5. After that it's less clear. Right now the Big East has a better basketball identity and brand than the American. Nova is considered with the best programs nationally and has actually been the best program over the last 5 years. After that, the next 5 or 6 spots are competitive and we have good numbers for bids. Georgetown and St Johns are a bit like UConn right now as underperforming brands, but will give the conference a boost when they cycle back up.

Nova whiffed on football and missed the golden age of BCS and the CFP era. 20 years forward is an interesting projection and I think it's much less certain. Will there be any real revenue below the P5? How will cord cutting change the landscape and the money? Will CTE change the participation, rules, popularity, and revenue of the sport? Will the P5 break from the NCAA? Can college expenses far outpace other inflation indefinitely? Is growing college tuition debt sustainable? Will we have an education bubble burst? Will state subsidized schools fund athletics? Will US colleges move to more of a government subsidized model like Europe? Will the amateur model change? Will corruption ruin college sports?

20 years back the Bonnies were already not relevant. Like Holy Cross, they are teams that lost their athletic brand value. Some P5 schools have also lost luster even though they are getting paid. ie. Boston College, Pitt. Over the last 20 years Gonzaga, Butler, Creighton, Xavier, and Wichita State have built a stronger position, so some smaller programs have shown success and are not lumped in the same trajectory as the Bonnies.

While "football drives the bus" has a lot of truth, I think the missed story in CR is that "Rivalries drive interest and value". Rivalries are often formed with history, shared regions, and excellence. Of the teams that cycled in and out of the Big East, UConn and Cuse are missed most. BC and Pitt not so much. The new BE is not as rich in rivalries as the past but we are gaining some momentum and we have a reasonable footprint. The BET at MSG is great and that helps. Who are UConn's rivals? Cincy seems like the most obvious. The American footprint is not ideal.

I'd guess 20 years from now that the Big East, built on a solid basketball-first model, is still standing with most if not all of its current members and maybe a few more. I would guess that the American won't exist in 20 years or will have a drastically different make-up. The American's programs will find their alliances, but I doubt this structure survives. I think there will be a correction to more regional affiliations.
 
Joined
Feb 26, 2017
Messages
488
Likes
237
#14
KenPom and AP pre-season polls are also out now.

Bonnies are next to UConn in the rankings. Not enough love yet for the coaching change.
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
3,714
Likes
1,221
#15
yep...the preseason AP is out...

And we see, surprise, Kansas, Kentucky, and Duke in the top 4...samo, samo.

The Big East's Villanova gets some respect....as does Gonzaga from the West Coast Comference and Nevada from the Mountain West....

AAC...
....#....not yet

ACC...
....#4 Duke
....#5 Virginia
....#8 UNC
....#15 VT
....#16 Syracuse
....#17 FSU
....#22 Clemson

Big East...
....#9 Villanova

Big Ten...
....#10 Michigan St.
....#19 Michigan
....#24 Purdue

Big 12...
....#1 Kansas
....#13 WVU
....#20 TCU

PAC 12...
....#14 Oregon
....#21 UCLA
....#25 Washington

SEC...
....#2 Kentucky
....#6 Tennessee
....#11 Auburn
....#18 Mississippi St.
....#23 LSU
 
Joined
Feb 26, 2017
Messages
488
Likes
237
#16
Conference strength also factors in the bottom. Here are the programs beyond 100 for those 7 conferences:

American - USF 287
American - ECU 279
American - Tulane 189
PAC - Cal 157
Big Ten - Rutgers 149

American - Tulsa 114
American - Memphis 107
PAC - Stanford 105
American - UConn 102
SEC - UGA 101

DePaul is the bottom of the Big East at 77
Georgia Tech for the ACC is 92
OK State for the B12 is 62
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
Messages
1,591
Likes
952
#17
KenPom and AP pre-season polls are also out now.

Bonnies are next to UConn in the rankings. Not enough love yet for the coaching change.
New coach, but same players. That is the problem for UConn this year. The people who determine these rankings only know what they saw out of these guys in the past. Maybe they are correct. It may take a couple of years for the new coach to get his guys. I understand the rankings. I personally don't think UConn will exceed expectations given the shortcomings of the players that are currently on this team. We can only hope that UConn basketball has reached the bottom and can improve. If they surpass it, I will be surprised and it will be a great bonus.
 

Butch

Go Bulldogs!
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
16,274
Likes
6,204
#18
Exactly. FS1 NBE payout will grow to be a mere fraction of the AAC’s. As a hoops-first fan it’s hard to admit but the future in The American is far brighter than in a league like the NBE. With the exception of Villanova, none of the NBE jobs are destinations. Xavier has been a job filled and voided every 5 years by coaches who’ve gone onto bigger jobs (Skip, Sean Miller, Matta, Mack) meanwhile formerly heralded jobs like St. John’s & Georgetown may hold nostalgic value but fail to move the needle for new hires (hence alums like Mullin & Ewing taking the helm, respectively). Meanwhile in The American let’s not forget the league had two preseason top-10 teams last year and a team earn a #2 seed. If UConn still calls The American home a decade from now, it’s more likely that Nova has gone FBS (a perennial FCS power) and joined the league than UConn’s gone backwards to the NBE.
Don't think Villanova will have such an opportunity again in the near future. Unless UConn and Temple are gone and UMass joins, etc.
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
3,714
Likes
1,221
#19
Huh?

When you have 7 programs in the top 25, having one at 92 is essentially irrelevant.

The Big East is.....a decent basketball conference...ranking behind from two to four conferences.

"The Big East is projected as just the fifth best conference in the country with an average Efficiency Margin of +14.24, narrowly falling behind the SEC (+14.30) and the Big Ten (+14.77). The Big East has finished each of the last three seasons as the #3 league in the country and hasn’t finished lower than #3 since 2014, the first year of The Reformation. The conference was ranked #5 at the end of that year."
 
Joined
Feb 26, 2017
Messages
488
Likes
237
#20
Huh?

When you have 7 programs in the top 25, having one at 92 is essentially irrelevant.
Yeah the ACC is just fine. Agreed. I included the 7 conferences that you listed. The American having half of its conference after 100, however, isn't great.
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2014
Messages
573
Likes
307
#21
With the exception of Nova, those new big east teams have been flameouts in the tourney. That ranking is in the eye of the beholder.
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2018
Messages
24
Likes
38
#22
Would the NBE hold half the appeal if Nova went FBS for football? Collectively, we miss the nostalgia (and geographic proximity) of Georgetown, St. John’s, Seton Hall, and PC—and maybe the ship has sailed on Nova leaving the FCS for a conference like The American, but if the AAC revenue makes fiscal sense it would be reasonable to see them take another look. That move would be an immediate wet blanket on the “return to the Big East” crowd.
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
564
Likes
266
#23
Do you honestly believe that long-term? That Georgetown, St. Johns, Villanova, and Xavier will be able to maintain a basketball profile greater than UConn, Memphis, Cincinnati, and Houston?

Football drives the bus. As time passes, I think the AAC will define it's niche as the "6th" football league and will blow past the Big East in basketball. Most of the non-football schools -- including Wichita -- are headed toward a "St. Bonaventure/A-10" kind of future over the next 20 years, IMHO. I can sort of see the blog posts from the year 2035 about the "Once great Big East..."
I think the Big East is sustainable. The sum is greater than its individual parts. Those programs as long as they stick together are going to compete really well in basketball and they have a loyal following from alumni/casual fans in the NE region. They have the Gavitt games and now the Big 12 games to power up their schedule prior to conference play

I remember when the 2013 breakup was first was announced... Everyone thought that five years into the future the Big East would irrelevant and dead. But so far it has turned out that they arguably more alive and strong than ever before. That league is really solid and drawing a lot of attention every time the Big East Tournament rolls around.
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
3,714
Likes
1,221
#24
"I remember when the 2013 breakup was first was announced... Everyone thought that five years into the future the Big East would irrelevant and dead "

Well...if they were talking football, they were dead on (pun intended).

Basketball was always there...
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,257
Likes
1,222
#25
I think the Big East is sustainable. The sum is greater than its individual parts. Those programs as long as they stick together are going to compete really well in basketball and they have a loyal following from alumni/casual fans in the NE region. They have the Gavitt games and now the Big 12 games to power up their schedule prior to conference play

I remember when the 2013 breakup was first was announced... Everyone thought that five years into the future the Big East would irrelevant and dead. But so far it has turned out that they arguably more alive and strong than ever before. That league is really solid and drawing a lot of attention every time the Big East Tournament rolls around.
You think the current Big East is stronger than the old Big East? You need to put down the bottle.
 
...

Top