Podcast on Patriots Move to Hartford

[gwhuskyfan]

Hi all,

I know we're starved for content. For some time I've been working on putting a podcast together around the Patriots and the ill-fated deal to bring them to Hartford. The episodes will be posting soon (have a lot of the key players from the CT side of things, with some MA perspective thrown in there). Trailer for the pod can be found here:



Feel free to subscribe to The Connecticut Scoreboard Podcast wherever you listen to pods to get notified of the first episode's release (or follow on Twitter @CTScoreboardPod).

 

[Ricker]

There was supposedly a Payment of ($20 mill?) to be paid to CT if the Patriots reneged. I've always wondered if that was paid and why it wasn't paid if they weaseled out of it. Hopefully addressing that point is part of your discussion.

 

[Waquoit]

There was supposedly a Payment of ($20 mill?) to be paid to CT if the Patriots reneged. I've always wondered if that was paid and why it wasn't paid if they weaseled out of it. Hopefully addressing that point is part of your discussion.

You are off by a factor of 10. I believe it was a $2M buyout.

 

[Dove]

There was supposedly a Payment of ($20 mill?) to be paid to CT if the Patriots reneged. I've always wondered if that was paid and why it wasn't paid if they weaseled out of it. Hopefully addressing that point is part of your discussion.

I think some of it helped remodel a home on Bantam Lake.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I will be interested to hear the CT perception of this. From a Boston perspective this was almost a non-story. It may be revisionist history, but in the public eye it was viewed as a veiled threat to get more, much like any possible relocation of a business. It was taken more seriously by MA officials out of necessity. The Pats simply shopped the market & used the possibility of a move for negotiating purposes; one has to pretend a move is real for this to work effectively. The possible suitors are oft victims in loss of time/costs/hope of the necessary pretense.

 

[gwhuskyfan]

You are off by a factor of 10. I believe it was a $2M buyout.

Yes, I talked with Gov. Rowland about some money that came into the state from Kraft/NFL.

 

[Waquoit]

I will be interested to hear the CT perception of this. From a Boston perspective this was almost a non-story. It may be revisionist history, but in the public eye it was viewed as a veiled threat to get more, much like any possible relocation of a business. It was taken more seriously by MA officials out of necessity. The Pats simply shopped the market & used the possibility of a move for negotiating purposes; one has to pretend a move is real for this to work effectively. The possible suitors are oft victims in loss of time/costs/hope of the necessary pretense.

I don't think this was just a dodge to save a few bucks. It was a phenomenal deal and I think the Pats were all in until Kraft had a case of buyers remorse. Jon Kraft was on every radio show that would have him to talk about the great stadium coming. That Rowland and his team didn't have everything nailed down gave the Pats the opportunity to bail. But the Pats went to such great lengths for what? The state of MA really didn't sweeten the pot much. Just a few more bucks for infrastructure. The NFL gave them a special loan for stadium construction. That was all to show for the trouble, a little face saving. If Connecticut could have shown that the new stadium would have opened on time, I think the Pats would be there now. But CT was still dickering about the steam plant and the stadium would have never made it in time. But the Pats waited.

And it was not a non-story in Boston. At least not on New England Cable News when the announcement and press conference was made. It was the subject of team coverage all day. The majority of each hour was spent talking about the Pats move. I'll never forget it, NECN often referred to Hartford as "they". How does that work?

 

[Dogdeacon]

Maybe because the Pats hadn't won yet and therefore had less of a following, but from living in MA from 94 to present I'd say the Red Sox potential new stadium (Save Fenway Park) generated much more talk & controversy than the Pats move. There was almost as much 'buzz' about the Pats potentially building something in the Seaport district even though the Hartford talk progressed further.

People in Boston didn't take the proposed move to Hartford seriously, perhaps a portion b/c they didn't care enough, but I'd say predominately because it seemed preposterous. Even though some teams have preposterously moved cities, i.e. OKC-from-Seattle, not to say that it being unlikely means it couldn't have happened.

The fact that the Pats got little concessions arguably proves my point more than yours. Their preference was never to move, so once it became viable to stay it didn't take much to keep them. On its face that makes more sense as the Whaler loss already had diminished Hartford and moving there, even further away from Boston makes no economic sense. The CT spin is there was an opportunity that could have been seized & it was blown, I say this is partially a fiction told only to ease the pain of being used and summarily dumped. To wit, "they couldn't have been just using us, see how little they got for it?!"

 

[Waquoit]

The fact that the Pats got little concessions arguably proves my point more than yours. Their preference was never to move, so once it became viable to stay it didn't take much to keep them...The CT spin is there was an opportunity that could have been seized & it was blown, I say this is partially a fiction told only to ease the pain of being used and summarily dumped. To wit, "they couldn't have been just using us, see how little they got for it?!"

But what if it's true? That "used and dumped" is now the conventional wisdom doesn't make it the truth. The Pats went to a lot of trouble to just use someone for no gain. They had Bledsoe doing public appearances down here. The solicited deposits for the waiting list. The Pats only really pulled out at the last minute when it was clear Hartford couldn't deliver on time. The Pats couldn't take the chance of having no home. I know how Boston guys don't like taking shots from New Yorkers, that's why they like to throw shade at Hartford when they can. Plenty of people in Boston took the move seriously. The one guy I remember who didn't was Will McDonough, the rest of the guys on the NBC panel took it seriously. Going back to Foxboro wasn't a fait accompli. A big proponent of the "used and dumped" term was the Rowland camp. They didn't deliver and took up that to CYA. Kinda like lost causers.

 

[Waquoit]

There was almost as much 'buzz' about the Pats potentially building something in the Seaport district even though the Hartford talk progressed further.

That buzz lasted as long as it took the local Congressman to say "If you think I'm giving up 2,500 jobs in my district, you're nuts"; as the plan required the purchase of a federal building inside the footprint. There was an article in the Herald and that was about it.

 

[Dogdeacon]

But what if it's true? That "used and dumped" is now the conventional wisdom doesn't make it the truth. The Pats went to a lot of trouble to just use someone for no gain. They had Bledsoe doing public appearances down here. The solicited deposits for the waiting list. The Pats only really pulled out at the last minute when it was clear Hartford couldn't deliver on time. The Pats couldn't take the chance of having no home. I know how Boston guys don't like taking shots from New Yorkers, that's why they like to throw shade at Hartford when they can. Plenty of people in Boston took the move seriously. The one guy I remember who didn't was Will McDonough, the rest of the guys on the NBC panel took it seriously. Going back to Foxboro wasn't a fait accompli. A big proponent of the "used and dumped" term was the Rowland camp. They didn't deliver and took up that to CYA. Kinda like lost causers.

I grew up in CT went to UConn, lived in Charlestown in 99, I was pretty agnostic at the time. Now more biased towards Boston & MA seeing CT struggle and MA flourish in 20 years since.

Obviously Kraft signed something so it was somewhat real, but that something had lots of outs. To use the threat effectively you have to make it real, sometimes it becomes real (even if intended as a ruse or threat), but more often it inevitably proves unrealistic.

there was definitely a lot of talk about a stadium in the Seaport, but whereas I'm not a Pats fine I can't say how much of it was Pats specific.

 

[cwh]

I wasn't following the move news too closely as I never expected the Pats to come to CT so I could be way off on how serious the talks actually were. I always had the feeling that it was just a ploy to get the Pats leverage in MA. I do recall that at some point the stadium site talk went from building in Hartford to including option B as well which was building the stadium at Lake Compounce in Bristol. That was right before the Pats said no to Connecticut.

 

[Waquoit]

I wasn't following the move news too closely as I never expected the Pats to come to CT so I could be way off on how serious the talks actually were.

You are way off

 

[GemParty]

Cool idea Jared. Stay creative.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Maybe because the Pats hadn't won yet and therefore had less of a following, but from living in MA from 94 to present I'd say the Red Sox potential new stadium (Save Fenway Park) generated much more talk & controversy than the Pats move. There was almost as much 'buzz' about the Pats potentially building something in the Seaport district even though the Hartford talk progressed further.

People in Boston didn't take the proposed move to Hartford seriously, perhaps a portion b/c they didn't care enough, but I'd say predominately because it seemed preposterous. Even though some teams have preposterously moved cities, i.e. OKC-from-Seattle, not to say that it being unlikely means it couldn't have happened.

The fact that the Pats got little concessions arguably proves my point more than yours. Their preference was never to move, so once it became viable to stay it didn't take much to keep them. On its face that makes more sense as the Whaler loss already had diminished Hartford and moving there, even further away from Boston makes no economic sense. The CT spin is there was an opportunity that could have been seized & it was blown, I say this is partially a fiction told only to ease the pain of being used and summarily dumped. To wit, "they couldn't have been just using us, see how little they got for it?!"

Absolutely. I lived in South Boston at the time. Everybody knew Kraft was just using the threat of Hartford as a leverage point to get the state to kick in something. Hartford wasn't going to be a viable market for an NFL. I say that as someone who grew up in Manchester and worked in Hartford for a bit.

Ultimately the land in the Seaport was a better fit for a baseball stadium and McCourt ended up selling his parking lots and it became what it is now. Kraft managed to get the Rt. 1 improvements he wanted, including the flyover bridges. Once Legacy Place opened they borrowed from that idea to create Patriot's Place.

 

[Waquoit]

Like Barr said, history is written by the winners.