Pitino at the Half

[navery12]

The talent is better right now than it was just a few years ago because players are all of a sudden staying longer and the NBA hates traditional bigs. I'm not sure the talent is as good as it was when I was a kid and the studs were playing as upperclassmen but it's closer than it was 5 years ago.

I'd agree with that, though I think that's offset by the players being able to move to teams better suited to their level. Guys like Rahsool Diggins or Brendan Adams would have hung around for 4 years previously and would have been able to contribute on good teams their senior year as role players, but got to move down and become main options at mid majors more suited to their talent level

 

[Deleted at users request]

College basketball is an infinitely better product today than even 10 years ago and especially 20 or 30 years ago, and we still have people basking in the old days. You can't make it up

The fact that more and more American players aren’t being drafted high would disagree with you. This product sucks and it’s why nobody talks about it.

Media only talks about Hurley because there is nothing else interesting in college basketball to pay attention to except Cooper Flagg this year. Nobody cares about a 24 year old one and done player scoring 17 a game for Auburn.

We used to be able to watch Kevin Durant’s, Derrick Rose’s, Greg Oden’s and Kevin Love’s within a two year span.

Nobody in the last 2-3 years was even as good as a Buddy Hield and Doug McDermott.

 

[Deleted at users request]

I agree with this. I have no idea if Ross could be as good as Lamb because he hasn't had a chance. That could be because Hurley didn't love his game as a frosh, but it does seem like non-superstar frosh aren't going to play much. I think he's even said that.


Coombs McDaniel could do 360 windmill dunks.

It’s unfortunate. There’s no reason a freshman can’t do what Mahaney did this year. Coaches are just choosing differently these days at the cost of long term development.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Thing is, if we had a freshman Jeremy lamb on this team surely he’d be playing. This is such a crazy arguement considering that our best player, our alpha, our go to guy is a freshman. Maybe it’s just that the other two kids aren’t ready or worse, aren’t UConn level. The staff knows far more than you.

November Jeremy Lamb gets put on the bench with a minutes restriction for the rest of the season.

He didn’t show up at all in Maui.

 

[RuffRuff]

I'd agree with that, though I think that's offset by the players being able to move to teams better suited to their level. Guys like Rahsool Diggins or Brendan Adams would have hung around for 4 years previously and would have been able to contribute on good teams their senior year as role players, but got to move down and become main options at mid majors more suited to their talent level

Haven't really thought about it that way, but that does make great sense. While it's chaotic, it does offer flexibility for players across the board. Purists aren't going to love it, passive fans may have a tough time connecting with it because they can't track all the movement, but for junkies I find these times pretty fascinating in terms of how you build a roster. The added level of complexity makes it super interesting. These coaches make a butt load - if you can't hack it, stop whining, retire and let a young current guy figure it out. In very few professions are there 75 year old gramps working anyway. So K, Roy and Jimmy B retired. Most guys their age are sitting around a DJ in Florida drinking mocktails.

 

[RuffRuff]

It’s unfortunate. There’s no reason a freshman can’t do what Mahaney did this year. Coaches are just choosing differently these days at the cost of long term development.

Because they want to win in the current year maybe? The portal gives you a chance, if you hit it right, to win every single year. Would you like me to run through a couple more top 15 rosters to show you? The intrigue around the sport is not about how it used to be, it's about watching how coaches adapt strategically to changes.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Because they want to win in the current year maybe? The portal gives you a chance, if you hit it right, to win every single year. Would you like me to run through a couple more top 15 rosters to show you? The intrigue around the sport is not about how it used to be, it's about watching how coaches adapt strategically to changes.

Purdue and Marquette win at as high of a level as anybody and they aren’t even pulling in top recruiting classes to do it.

You are making it seem like one or the other when that’s not the case. As we saw with Mahaney, pulling from the portal doesn’t even guarantee success.

When we were led by RJ Cole and Tyrese Martin we weren’t that successful either. I don’t want to go back to that.

Are there any teams like Marquette and Purdue who are actually doing bad? Because if the floor for this strategy is consistent top 15 seasons that doesn’t sound like a bad strategy.

 

[bendm]

Well, those are all the reason that will max him out at 25 mpg......along with fouling since Hurley's defensive schemes will make him play aggressively 25-30 feet from the hoop. No one on this board doubts his rebounding ability and scoring ability around the rim. They're both impressive.

If reed is playing 25mpg how is he not the starter? As I alluded to in my first post I’m more worried about him leaving than being able to average 30mpg if he stays.

 

[jesterman]

The fact that more and more American players aren’t being drafted high would disagree with you. This product sucks and it’s why nobody talks about it.

Media only talks about Hurley because there is nothing else interesting in college basketball to pay attention to except Cooper Flagg this year. Nobody cares about a 24 year old one and done player scoring 17 a game for Auburn.

We used to be able to watch Kevin Durant’s, Derrick Rose’s, Greg Oden’s and Kevin Love’s within a two year span.

Nobody in the last 2-3 years was even as good as a Buddy Hield and Doug McDermott.

Zach Edey dominated college basketball the last 2-3 years. And also, Cooper Flagg IS this year's Kevin Durant, those guys are generational outliers and that one stretch in the mid 00s was an anomaly.

It seems like your nostalgia is conflicting with the reality of how to construct a perennially dominant team in this day and age. And also, we absolutely should be able to recruit multiple Liam level guys each year, maybe not lottery picks but our goals for freshman recruits should be at least 2-3 guys each year who are projected 1-and-dones. (And I think this incoming class is close to, if not at that level, and should be the standard from now on).

How can we call ourselves a blue blood and not recruit like it? You think Duke and Kentucky are over there feeling bad about recruiting the best players? They should save some roster spots for 3-4 year development pieces that might turn into a 10/4/2 guy as a senior? This is loser talk.

 

[Deleted at users request]

How can we call ourselves a blue blood and not recruit like it? You think Duke and Kentucky are over there feeling bad about recruiting the best players? They should save some roster spots for 3-4 year development pieces that might turn into a 10/4/2 guy as a senior? This is loser talk.

Why are we trying to be like teams that haven’t had tournament success in years.

Also KD averaged 26 and 11 in college. Cooper Flagg is not Kevin Durant. He’s good though and the most marketable player the sport has had in years.

 

[superjohn]

I'd agree with that, though I think that's offset by the players being able to move to teams better suited to their level. Guys like Rahsool Diggins or Brendan Adams would have hung around for 4 years previously and would have been able to contribute on good teams their senior year as role players, but got to move down and become main options at mid majors more suited to their talent level

I agree with that. Early entry to the NBA and the other semi pro leagues were really cutting into the college basketball talent. Now that kids are getting paid some will stay instead of trying to latch onto an NBA team on a 2 way or bouncing around the G league, players can move around now, and the NBA not liking traditional bigs has made the talent and top teams better than it was.

I just look at some of those teams that didn't even win it all when I was younger like the UNC team that beat the Rip UConn team the year before we won the championship with junior year Antawn Jamison, junior Vince Carter, senior Shammond Williams, sophomore Ed Cota, freshman Brendan Haywood and I think they would wreck the top teams today. Houston 40+ years ago had junior Drexler, sophomore Akeem, senior Larry Micheaux, senior Michael Young and they didn't even win the whole thing. They would murder the current Houston team and any other team in college basketball today IMO.

Even with Kobe, Garnett, McGrady, Amare Stoudemire etc. skipping college in the late 90's you still had big time studs leading really good teams in college. Just look at the year Kobe was drafted you had Ray Allen, Camby, Kittles, Iverson leading the local teams. Tim Duncan at Wake, that stacked Pitino Kentucky team that won it all with Antoine Walker, Ron Mercer, Derek Anderson, Delk etc., Abdur-Rahim, Marbury, Nash and Van Horn out west. The 90's all-America teams were stacked and there were some great college teams then, same into the early 2000's. From 2010 until last year college basketball was weak IMO. There's finally some star power again and teams are better than they were more recently because of the things we talked about but the marketing just isn't there.

 

[RuffRuff]

Purdue and Marquette win at as high of a level as anybody and they aren’t even pulling in top recruiting classes to do it.

You are making it seem like one or the other when that’s not the case. As we saw with Mahaney, pulling from the portal doesn’t even guarantee success.

When we were led by RJ Cole and Tyrese Martin we weren’t that successful either. I don’t want to go back to that.

Are there any teams like Marquette and Purdue who are actually doing bad? Because if the floor for this strategy is consistent top 15 seasons that doesn’t sound like a bad strategy.

I've sited those two programs as ones I expect to start hitting walls if they don't adapt. Marquette may start as early as next year, Purdue has another year of their Big3. Then let's see how those two programs replenish.

Marquette has zero chance to make an NC run this year - they have fizzled exactly as expected and always fizzle. It's the same script year over year. How do you roll that core back with Ben Gold as your center? They lose Jones/Mitchell/Joplin this year. They look really mid next year rolling back Ross as their only meaningful returner. They have a couple freshman on the bench, I do like Parham. If you look at their last couple classes and incoming, have a top 100 kid in each class, average of around 80. Not a lot of heat coming in.

Purdue classes are even weaker, they barely get top 100 kids. Good luck turning over those rocks and developing. The one thing Painter does do that Shaka doesn't is find and develop bigs, which does give him an advantage.

These guys do have stickiness, and that may be in part to them investing in these lower ranked recruits. They pay it back by hanging around.

I've noticed that Marquette fan not showing up here after the GE do their annual fizzle out.

 

[uconnfan68]

Fully agree with this. We were vastly overrated coming into the season based on our roster.

Said in hindsight. ;^)

 

[businesslawyer]

Said in hindsight. ;^)

I said at the beginning of the year we should be focused on competing for the conference championship and making the Sweet 16. But thanks anyway.

 

[Deleted at users request]

I've sited those two programs as ones I expect to start hitting walls if they don't adapt. Marquette may start as early as next year, Purdue has another year of their Big3. Then let's see how those two programs replenish.

Marquette has zero chance to make an NC run this year - they have fizzled exactly as expected and always fizzle. It's the same script year over year. How do you roll that core back with Ben Gold as your center? They lose Jones/Mitchell/Joplin this year. They look really mid next year rolling back Ross as their only meaningful returner. They have a couple freshman on the bench, I do like Parham. If you look at their last couple classes and incoming, have a top 100 kid in each class, average of around 80. Not a lot of heat coming in.

Purdue classes are even weaker, they barely get top 100 kids. Good luck turning over those rocks and developing. The one thing Painter does do that Shaka doesn't is find and develop bigs, which does give him an advantage.

These guys do have stickiness, and that may be in part to them investing in these lower ranked recruits. They pay it back by hanging around.

I've noticed that Marquette fan not showing up here after the GE do their annual fizzle out.

Weren’t both of those teams suppose to fall off when Edey, Kolek, and Oso left? That’s what happens when you have continuity. Players develop and it’s next person up.

Meanwhile a blue blood who has been probably the biggest adapter to NIL Kansas is down 30 right now.

 

[RuffRuff]

Weren’t both of those teams suppose to fall off when Edey, Kolek, and Oso left? That’s what happens when you have continuity. Players develop and it’s next person up.

Meanwhile a blue blood who has been probably the biggest adapter to NIL Kansas is down 30 right now.

You don’t want to go toe to toe on this one because I’ll fact you into a wedgie.

Let’s see how Marquette does in the tourney and how their season looks next year. Shaka was on the BE preview show pre UConn game today bragging how all his players have cried at points during practice. Well Shaka, maybe that’s why you always walk into the tourney with your players are on crutches and ready for summer break.

Self is awful in his portal selection and then he doesn’t know how to assimilate. Tough skills to lack today. He’s not long for the new ways of doing. Now let’s talk about the most of the top ten teams.

 

[Deleted at users request]

You don’t want to go toe to toe on this one because I’ll fact you into a wedgie.

Let’s see how Marquette does in the tourney and how their season looks next year. Shaka was on the BE preview show pre UConn game today bragging how all his players have cried at points during practice. Well Shaka, maybe that’s why you always walk into the tourney with your players are on crutches and ready for summer break.

Self is awful in his portal selection and then he doesn’t know how to assimilate. Tough skills to lack today. He’s not long for the new ways of doing. Now let’s talk about the most of the top ten teams.

I’m not saying either Marquette or Pudue will be champions, just that the old school way of developing your own players being “obsolete” when those two have consistently been top 15 teams without getting highly rated recruiting classes is a farce.

If they can do that with the talent they have, what’s stopping programs with much better recruiting classes from doing even more?

If it wasn’t for us, Purdue would’ve been the only other non-UConn champion in this portal era. Before we won Kansas was the last winner with a home grown team. And again, they’ve fallen off a cliff since succumbing to this new environment.

Last response on this subject.

 

[RuffRuff]

I’m not saying either Marquette or Pudue will be champions, just that the old school way of developing your own players being “obsolete” when those two have consistently been top 15 teams without getting highly rated recruiting classes is a farce.

If they can do that with the talent they have, what’s stopping programs with much better recruiting classes from doing even more?

If it wasn’t for us, Purdue would’ve been the only other non-UConn champion in this portal era. Before we won Kansas was the last winner with a home grown team. And again, they’ve fallen off a cliff since succumbing to this new environment.

Last response on this subject.

Because the schools with much better classes send their players to the NBA, and it’s why they keep getting good players. Cycle of life. Or you go get old dudes with hairy chests that can beat up pimply freshman.

Purdue had a 7’4” outlier freak show they found in some Pizza Hut in Toronto that was on no one’s radar. Go show me you can do that again.