Philly Inquirer: Basketball Should Be At Top Of Big East Presidents' Agenda

[Section205]

A somewhat interesting take. A view about damaging BE hoops product while saving BE football.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports...be_at_top_of_Big_East_presidents__agenda.html

 

[businesslawyer]

You may have different discussions about this on our basketball boards versus our football boards. I think that UConn has to act to make sure it's football program remains as "big time" as possible in case there is ever an NCAA spin off. But there is a rational argument to the other side as well.

One can argue (as does my older son, who cares 100 times more about our hoops program than our football program) that we are a small, New England state and as such will never be a national power in football. Being an eastern regional power, making the back of the top 20 in really good years, that we can accomplish but no matter what we do we do not have the location, size, resources or history to compete to be the best. Why would we damage our programs that can compete to be the best by chasing an unreachable goal? Thus, when rebuilding, just have a football conference, recognize it won't be big time and bring in more top flight hoops schools to replace Pitt, Syracuse and the Scumineers.

Again, I am not urging that, but it is a rational position. And, if you're a Catholic in the conference, how much damage will you suffer to allow other schools to chase what you view as an impossible dream?

 

[HuskyHawk]

One can argue (as does my older son, who cares 100 times more about our hoops program than our football program) that we are a small, New England state and as such will never be a national power in football. Being an eastern regional power, making the back of the top 20 in really good years, that we can accomplish but no matter what we do we do not have the location, size, resources or history to compete to be the best. Why would we damage our programs that can compete to be the best by chasing an unreachable goal? Thus, when rebuilding, just have a football conference, recognize it won't be big time and bring in more top flight hoops schools to replace Pitt, Syracuse and the Scumineers.

I agree with your son. My complaints about the hybrid conference proposed is that it really isn't good at anything. It becomes a weak BCS conference in football, and basketball drops tremendously. Houston is tolerable at basketball, but is weaker than all three departing schools. UCF and SMU are bad and Boise is atrociously bad.

I think it's a lose-lose proposition. The Big East basketball brand takes a hit, and football remains weak.
The best move for everyone is to split now. Let the BB only schools recruit Xavier, Butler and St. Joes and build a strong Big East basketball conference as originally intended. Much as I hate the idea, UConn would then be in a new all-sports conference with UConn, SFU, CFU, RU, UL, Cincy, Boise, Nevada, SMU, Houston and maybe UNLV and Colorado State if BYU won't join. Two six team divisions. If BYU is in, it would be stronger in football than the old BE, and basketball would be decent, probably SEC level.

 

[SubbaBub]

I don't buy the can't do it in FB argument. I have a receipt from NYE in Tempe that says otherwise. Will we ever be Alabama or Oklahoma, no. Will.we be challenging for NC's and BCS games every year, no.

Will we be in the Top.25 every year, probably not. But, we are as good a program after 7 years as at least half of the other BCS teams.

If the program is smart, remains committed, and has the opportunity, then we can get to a nice warm bowl game most years and occasionally win a conference title. In CFB, that's pretty good.



Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

 

[HuskyHawk]

I don't buy the can't do it in FB argument. I have a receipt from NYE in Tempe that says otherwise. Will we ever be Alabama or Oklahoma, no. Will.we be challenging for NC's and BCS games every year, no.

Will we be in the Top.25 every year, probably not. But, we are as good a program after 7 years as at least half of the other BCS teams.

If the program is smart, remains committed, and has the opportunity, then we can get to a nice warm bowl game most years and occasionally win a conference title. In CFB, that's pretty good.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

I agree with this. But we are "Alabama/Oklahoma" in basketball already. Those schools have hoops programs on par with what I think our football program can be. Always decent, sometimes darned good. Yet they would never take an action to shore up basketball at the expense of football. Nor should UConn, UNC, Kentucky, Duke, Syracuse or Kansas do the opposite. It's no coincidence that every single flagship basketball program is mediocre or worse at football. In a given year, an Ohio State, MSU, Florida or Texas might be very good at both, but it isn't the norm. Since I don't think it's even possible for UConn to become elite at football, I want to make sure basketball is protected.

 

[businesslawyer]

I don't buy the can't do it in FB argument. I have a receipt from NYE in Tempe that says otherwise. Will we ever be Alabama or Oklahoma, no. Will.we be challenging for NC's and BCS games every year, no.

Will we be in the Top.25 every year, probably not. But, we are as good a program after 7 years as at least half of the other BCS teams.

If the program is smart, remains committed, and has the opportunity, then we can get to a nice warm bowl game most years and occasionally win a conference title. In CFB, that's pretty good.



Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

I don't see anything in your post that disagrees with what I said. We will not in my life time win three national championships in football in 12 years. That is exactly the point. That's not to say we can't be better than BC or Syracuse in football, not just in a year but in terms of a program. We can.

 

[Murph]

We'd have a better chance of winning it all if a playoff system came about, but in the current BCS structure, we are at a disadvantage and that's while actually being a member of the 'club'.

 

[John Greene]

This is the most rational discussion of BBvFB at UConn I have seen since I started reading these boards. Living in Alabama I know that Bama would never dream of doing anything that would dilute its football brand. Likewise Kentucky would never dream of risking its basketball brand. Bama supporters start to think about BB after football signing day. Kentucky supporters think BB 12 months a year. They exist in the same conference but that is about it. Each understands what it important and what is not. If you root for UConn hope that the football program is never on a par with basketball because all that will mean is that basketball has taken a significant step backwards.

 

[Section205]

If you root for UConn hope that the football program is never on a par with basketball because all that will mean is that basketball has taken a significant step backwards.

Why would you hope that? Florida was able to do it.

 

[John Greene]

Why would you hope that? Florida was able to do it.

For a couple of reasons.
In my mind FL has not yet shown that it can have a competitive BB program over the long run. Yes they had a great run for a couple of years, but to tell you the truth none of the Gator fans I know here, or down on the panhandle where we have a condo, really care. They continue to focus on FB. Billy Donovan has always been second in their eyes to whoever was the head football coach. Even Zook was more important.

Second is it easier to build a short term run in BB than it is in FB. 2-3 really top players and a decent supporting cast will get you there. You may not be able to hold on but you will be able to get to the top.

Third UConn is not UF. UF is much larger and located in a state that puts much more emphasis on sports in general. FL is in a state that will grow significantly faster than CT over any future period meaning the university will have more resources than UConn.

I know a lot of us want to thump our chests about UConn but the reality is UConn sport success is entirely built on the backs of two coaches one named Calhoun and the other Auriema. Soccer, Baseball or whatever else we would like to be important really does not matter.

 

[Section205]

For a couple of reasons.
In my mind FL has not yet shown that it can have a competitive BB program over the long run. Yes they had a great run for a couple of years, but to tell you the truth none of the Gator fans I know here, or down on the panhandle where we have a condo, really care. They continue to focus on FB. Billy Donovan has always been second in their eyes to whoever was the head football coach. Even Zook was more important.

Believe me, by any means, I'm not putting UConn FB on a pedastal with UF, 'Bama, OU, etc. But there's no reason why UConn FB needs to take back seat from being a competitive and successful program without having to worry about if our BB (Men & Women) is taking a step backwards because of the FB program possibly doing well.

Since 1987, Florida has had 16 NCAA appearances- UConn 17. Both schools have 4 Final Fours each. 2 National Championships for UF- 3 for UConn. Not too shabby for either program. Sounds like it can be done.

Yes, Gator Football takes a back seat to no one in Gainesville, but it doesn't mean that their other sport programs cannot be sucessful. Just like UConn for BBall or any other college program. That's why there's the Capital One Cup that recognizes the top college athletic programs.

Damn this character limit.

 

[John Greene]

Believe me, by any means, I'm not putting UConn FB on a pedastal with UF, 'Bama, OU, etc. But there's no reason why UConn FB needs to take back seat from being a competitive and successful program without having to worry about if our BB (Men & Women) is taking a step backwards because of the FB program possibly doing well.

Since 1987, Florida has had 16 NCAA appearances- UConn 17. Both schools have 4 Final Fours each. 2 National Championships for UF- 3 for UConn. Not too shabby for either program. Sounds like it can be done.

Yes, Gator Football takes a back seat to no one in Gainesville, but it doesn't mean that their other sport programs cannot be sucessful. Just like UConn for BBall or any other college program. That's why there's the Capital One Cup that recognizes the top college athletic programs.

Damn this character limit.

 

[John Greene]

Our only point of contention may be what constitutes success. I think earlier in the thread someone mentioned success on the level of Syracuse or BC over time. An occasional top 15-20, regular NFL draft choices that actually play, ETC. This I think can be done but I do not think that the football program @ UConn will ever get to the point where it's national standing is anywhere near either men's or women's BB. The only way I see that as possible is if BB falls several rungs. As someone said earlier in BB we are Bama or Oklahoma. Although many have a hard time believing it, FB really is a different animal. It is not just the resources required it is the mindset. If resources were the only hurdle Harvard & Yale would still be national programs and Stanford would be a power after Luck graduates this year. They certainly have the resources. What they don't have is the single minded drive on campus and among their alumni to demand winning football.

 

[metsfan2323]

Our basketball league is fine. Houston, Central Florida, and SMU do nothing to damage our basketball league. Expect Houston to be in the top half of the basketball conference rather quickly and Central Florida will field a good team. The basketball league is excellent as is and can improve tremendously if the "basketball schools" (Depaul, Providence, St Johns and Seton Hall) start playing like they are supposed to play. Ironically if there is a problem it is due to the poor play of the basketball only schools. Those schools will probably benefit with the departure of Syracuse and Pitt because they will no longer be clobbered by them.

 

[freescooter]

There are several fallacies in al this discussion, I think. First, it really isn't the basketball schools that contribute to the current staus of the Big East. UCONN, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Louisville, Cincinnatti have carried far more of the load than the basketball only members. Indeed the damage to the league by this round of departures is largely because it was good baksetball schools who are leaving. As football schools only West Virginia is significant. Secondly, the idea that you can only be good at one of the two is just not backed up by the facts. Michigan, Michigan State, Florida, for that matter UCLA all play football very serioulsy and all play or have played serious basketball, too. Finally, on the issue of location. There is really only one other example, BC, but if you look at their performance you see that they have been able to be reasonably competetive over the past 20 years. they were ranked 8 times over the past 20 years, even getting as high as 10th in 2007. Before DeFillipo decided he wanted a BC guy in there, they had been ranked 8 times in 14 years including 4 straight form 2004-2007. that suggests that it absolutely is possible to build competetive teams in New England. Obviously you need a solid coach, decent recruiting to do it. for that matter, if you look at Syracuse, which isn't in New England, but has many of the same issues of location, Pasquoloni had them ranked almost every year he was there. There current state has more to do with the fact that like tne current genius at BC, they had an AD who decided he wanted ot go a few years with no coach.