Passing versus shooting

[dak3535]

It seems to me that the UConn women of the past spent more ball time passing and setting up plays than the recent teams. I remember watching and listening to commentators remark about the ball movement and sometimes to ball passing such that the ball did not touch the court. Recently is appears that UConn takes more 3 pointers and long 2 pointers with many bouncing into the opponents hands.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

It seems to me that the UConn women of the past spent more ball time passing and setting up plays than the recent teams. I remember watching and listening to commentators remark about the ball movement and sometimes to ball passing such that the ball did not touch the court. Recently is appears that UConn takes more 3 pointers and long 2 pointers with many bouncing into the opponents hands.

Wouldn't surprise me if we play faster since the UCONN half-court offense hasn't been the crown jewel that it usually is. If we can score early in the possession..that's a good thing. It's much better now than even a month ago. Long shots usually equate to longer rebounds. With Alliyah and Dorka improving, Williams driving more aggressively...and Ducharme committing to moving off the 3 point line to score...paint points are from my observation increasing. There's a nice balance right now.

 

[Boreifs]

I think the real discussion should focus on passing versus dribbling. Everyone shoots; how an offense gets in position to do that effectively is the crux of the matter. If one watched the SEC channel, every team dribbles from side to side hoping to pick up a screen that enables someone to cut to the basket. One never sees that in a UConn set (fortunately).

 

[meyers7]

It seems to me that the UConn women of the past spent more ball time passing and setting up plays than the recent teams. I remember watching and listening to commentators remark about the ball movement and sometimes to ball passing such that the ball did not touch the court. Recently is appears that UConn takes more 3 pointers and long 2 pointers with many bouncing into the opponents hands.

Wouldn't surprise me if we play faster since the UCONN half-court offense hasn't been the crown jewel that it usually is. If we can score early in the possession..that's a good thing. It's much better now than even a month ago. Long shots usually equate to longer rebounds. With Alliyah and Dorka improving, Williams driving more aggressively...and Ducharme committing to moving off the 3 point line to score...paint points are from my observation increasing. There's a nice balance right now.

Well it's really hard to get a cohesive offense when the players change constantly (covid, injuries, etc.). To get a good cohesive offense you need 5 starters (for most the season), with a couple subs, playing together over and over. No way you're getting that this year.

With a lot of players playing, you can press, speed up the game, get points of turnovers, and fast breaks. But you're not gonna get a real smooth half court offense.

Also, as I said in a previous thread somewhere, this team has Bueckers, Fudd, Williams, CFD. That's gonna be your core, your best players. This is going to be a guard oriented offense for the foreseeable future. Which means lots of 3 pt shots. And Juhasz, DeBerry and Brady all like shooting from outside. Better get used to it.

 

[JonathanXIV]

I understand and appreciate the observations, but I think they miss a key factor. Specifically, the role of the 3 point shot in today's game. Teams and coaches have come to realize that the 3 point shot is kind of a video game cheat code. Every possession has the possibility of 50% more points. Given how well so many players can shoot from the 3 point line, offenses are geared to getting open looks from behind the line. That's one reason why so many offenses are a version of pick and roll with kick outs to open shooters behind the line. In today's game it's about favorable one on one match ups, spacing and open looks from behind the 3 point line.

 

[LoboDays]

Unless they move the 3 point line out significantly, there’s not much reason to take a perimeter shot that’s not a 3. These days, just about every team has at least couple of snipers who can drain a 3 like making a foul shot. UCONN has Paige, Azzi, CD, CW, EW and Dorka and even NIKA who is starting to find the range. All of them will throw up a 3 if they’re open. The game has changed as the players ability to shoot lights out has increased.

 

[dak3535]

Great comments and I tend to agree. Perhaps the thread should have been Ball Movement versus Shooting. The thing I mess seeing is the ball management to take the best shot rather than run the ball up the court and take the first available. I do agree that roster is a big player as is experience.

 

[Littlemin]

Unless they move the 3 point line out significantly, there’s not much reason to take a perimeter shot that’s not a 3. These days, just about every team has at least couple of snipers who can drain a 3 like making a foul shot. UCONN has Paige, Azzi, CD, CW, EW and Dorka and even NIKA who is starting to find the range. All of them will throw up a 3 if they’re open. The game has changed as the players ability to shoot lights out has increased.

Even NIKA? The Nika who is shooting a better % than 4 of the Uconn “snipers” you initially listed this year and who tied with Williams for the second best % last year behind Bueckers?

 

[Jibariqua]

Great comments and I tend to agree. Perhaps the thread should have been Ball Movement versus Shooting. The thing I mess seeing is the ball management to take the best shot rather than run the ball up the court and take the first available. I do agree that roster is a big player as is experience.

Most teams are trying to create more possession. UCONN is fortunate to have some high efficiency scorers, not all teams do. More possessions=more opportunity to score.

 

[oldhusky]

You obviously need both and some recent teams have been lacking special passers or shooters. In Dangerfield and Walker's last year we had a couple of great shooters, but the passing by Uconn standards was mediocre. Dangerfield was a good/sound passer, but you expect that from a point guard and the rest of the team was nothing special.

Then we brought in two great passers in Paige and Nika, not just good, but the kind of natural instincts that can see an opening before it happens. But we lost two big time shooters to graduation. The next year we bring in two great shooters in Azzi and Caroline, and of course Paige is a great shooter as well.

This year was supposed to be the year where we could put great passers and shooters on the floor, at least some of the time, and our bigs were supposed to feast inside against defenses that had to stretch to the 3pt line, and with great passers that could find them inside or the open 3pt shooter.

Circumstances have prevented many of those pieces from playing together on a regular basis this season, along with sharing time with seniors (Evina and Christyn) who are good players, but were not great 3pt shooters. Next year between the 4 presumed guards we know of (expect to add a transfer later) we should have two who are great passers in Paige and Nika, and three that are great shooters in Paige, Azzi and Caroline. That is a group of guards that could be dynamic in combination that we may get a taste of this year, but can settle in with next year.

 

[PvP]

Well it's really hard to get a cohesive offense when the players change constantly (covid, injuries, etc.). To get a good cohesive offense you need 5 starters (for most the season), with a couple subs, playing together over and over. No way you're getting that this year.

With a lot of players playing, you can press, speed up the game, get points of turnovers, and fast breaks. But you're not gonna get a real smooth half court offense.

Also, as I said in a previous thread somewhere, this team has Bueckers, Fudd, Williams, CFD. That's gonna be your core, your best players. This is going to be a guard oriented offense for the foreseeable future. Which means lots of 3 pt shots. And Juhasz, DeBerry and Brady all like shooting from outside. Better get used to it.

CFD??? Need a little help recognizing that one....

 

[meyers7]

CFD??? Need a little help recognizing that one....

Caroline Freaking Ducharme. (or something starting with an F)

 

[PvP]

One reason we are often forced into half court offense is that unlike Paige who would immediately look for opportunities to throw to breaking "wide receivers" down field, Nika almost Invariably will just dribble up the court without looking up court. Watch and see....I think it is a real detriment to the kind of transition offense we thrive on.

 

[Rixxx]

I've said this before, being an old Bob Cousy fan, I love the great pass that leads to a bucket, more so than the great shot.

 

[Littlemin]

One reason we are often forced into half court offense is that unlike Paige who would immediately look for opportunities to throw to breaking "wide receivers" down field, Nika almost Invariably will just dribble up the court without looking up court. Watch and see....I think it is a real detriment to the kind of transition offense we thrive on.

What games do you watch? One of Muhl’s strengths is pushing the ball up court hard before the defense sets up.

 

[chrissaran]

If you think Nika is a better 3-point shooter than Paige, you're crazy.

 

[STLCardinal]

If one watched the SEC channel, every team dribbles from side to side hoping to pick up a screen that enables someone to cut to the basket.

Then, as they get to the basket they throw their body into the defender, flail their arms like helicopter blades, fall to the ground and wait for the official to call a foul, which they do, even though the shooter created the contact. All the while hoping the shot goes in too. I would rather see ball reversal, skip passes and pull up jumpers. This Bull in a China Closet basketball is not as enjoyable.

 

[DefenseBB]

Ok, enough of the theoretical BS. How about some facts so that we are all knowledgeable on the actual efforts of the team? Below is the table of the last 6 years of UConn per game stats. Our assists are slightly down and our Turnovers are slightly up. Our 3 point attempts are consistent and our 3 point made our down a bit. Our FG attempted are down-directly linked to our TOs. Our FG made is also down. Much of this data this year can be attributed to our teams injuries to our best players, specifically our point guard!

Year	G	APG	TO PG	3Pt A	3Pt M	FG	FGM
2022	24	18.5	14.3	20.4	6.8	59.9	28.9
2021	30	20.4	14.1	18.8	6.7	62.8	32.1
2020	32	18.7	13.8	22.0	8.8	63.0	30.2
2019	38	19.7	11.7	21.9	8.0	63.0	30.9
2018	37	22.1	12.0	20.1	7.9	63.6	33.7
2017	37	23.3	12.0	20.2	8.2	62.0	32.7

 

[MD#12Fan]

The game is about scoring and keeping your opponents from scoring. It is quantitative not qualitative. A qualitative sport would be something like figure skating or gymnastics. The judges don't hold up cards with scores on them here.
Offense is about getting open shots, shots that players can make. You don't take shots that you cannot make. So, I think there are many factors involved in what shots a team takes. One factor that I would mention is the greater emphasis in the game on 3-point shooting. let's not forget that a 3-point shot that goes in counts for 3 and ......
BTW "dribble-drive-pitch" offenses create open 3's and drives to the basket creating scoring opportunities and fouls. I think UConn is doing more penetrating off the dribble and I like it!

 

[Boreifs]

Then, as they get to the basket they throw their body into the defender, flail their arms like helicopter blades, fall to the ground and wait for the official to call a foul, which they do, even though the shooter created the contact. All the while hoping the shot goes in too. I would rather see ball reversal, skip passes and pull up jumpers. This Bull in a China Closet basketball is not as enjoyable.

Speaking of which, in the last Indiana-Iowa game Caitlin Clark pushed off with her arm every single time she had the ball in the fourth quarter and was never called for an offensive foul. It wasn’t even subtle; just ridiculously terrible officiating.

 

[Linart]

Thanks for the hard data! Everybody suspected the turnovers would be high, but the lower number of assists per game was an eye-opener.

 

[Waquoit]

Unless they move the 3 point line out significantly, there’s not much reason to take a perimeter shot that’s not a 3. These days, just about every team has at least couple of snipers who can drain a 3 like making a foul shot.

A shot from the top of the arc is the most desirable in the game. It's practically a free throw with a touch more oomph. And for that you get a 50% bonus. Everyone on the team should be prepared to take and make from there.

 

[PvP]

What games do you watch? One of Muhl’s strengths is pushing the ball up court hard before the defense sets up.

What games do I watch? Well, let's start with last night against Marquette. Nika, also characteristically, got in immediate foul trouble less than 2 minutes into the game and therefore was replaced early on. But later she was still Nika. You will recall you took offense at my comment that "Nika almost Invariably will just dribble up the court" rather than passing. Well, why don't we look at the facts. In all, Nika brought the ball upcourt 19 times. She dribbled the ball across midcourt on 18 of those 19 times. Only once did she pass the ball over the midcourt line, finding CW for open shot. 18 of 19 times seems to be to be "almost invariably" but maybe you see things differently.

I mentioned Paige's propensity to look to get a jump on the defense by frequently passing ahead (which I think even you will agree gets the ball upcourt faster than dribbling), but is she unique in that? Well, again, looking at real life facts, Caroline brought the ball upcourt last night four times and chose to look for opportunities to get the ball upcourt faster by passing it ahead 3 out of the 4 times she brought the ball upcourt.

The fact is that Nika does exactly what I said, dribbling the ball across midcourt, then often picking up her dribble and completely bogging down our offense. That is what I see in the games I watch (which is all of them.)

 

[phil sampieri]

One reason we are often forced into half court offense is that unlike Paige who would immediately look for opportunities to throw to breaking "wide receivers" down field, Nika almost Invariably will just dribble up the court without looking up court. Watch and see....I think it is a real detriment to the kind of transition offense we thrive on.

I see what you see but there are Nika lovers who don’t take constructive suggestions as just that, not an attack on the young lady