Papi - Hall of Fame?

[nomar]

I didn't think he'd get it in, but now...

What do you think?

 

[zyron]

I think that failed test in 2003 keeps him out, just like I said in the other thread.

 

[Scoe]

it is a possiblility but not a definite, wheres his glove.

 

[mauconnfan]

No way it would be a shame.......nice series and he actually wore his glove for a while........but not all year prior! He's a DH, a cheating one to boot, and until they add that room in Cooperstown they can't put him in.....Bernie Williams goes in before! He was pretty good in October too and used his leather year round...........

 

[connectikev]

I didn't think he'd get it in, but now...

What do you think?

As well as he has performed in his Boston years, 11 years isn't a large enough sample to get him enough votes. (See Mattingly, Don). The other mitigating factors against are: DH and 2003 PED questions.
But, he'll always be amongst my favorite Sox players - up there with Dewey and Yaz.

 

[Huskybass]

First ballot, no question. He is the greatest clutch player the Sox have ever had and has 3 rings. Whiny beyotch yankee fans would have enshrined him already if he did similar things in pinstripes.

 

[Deepster]

Said it in the other thread, will say it here.

Not sure how being "clutch" is a qualifier.

His career stats aren't at the upper eschelon of other HOFers.
He didn't play the field.
He has PED's in his past.

It would be a shame if he got in.

 

[Huskybass]

Said it in the other thread, will say it here.

Not sure how being "clutch" is a qualifier.

His career stats aren't at the upper eschelon of other HOFers.
He didn't play the field.
He has PED's in his past.

It would be a shame if he got in.

That is complete BS. You MUST be a Yankee fan to even think he shouldn't get in. By any objective measure, he gets in easily. He has the most hits ever as a DH, 431 homers and 1469 RBI and he is still producing at a high level. Add in 3 world series rings and a world series MVP and it is not even a question.

 

[Husky25]

I think he should get elected. I doubt he does via the BBWAA route, unless they relent on the unwritten criteria for PED-Era players. If they don't, few players are getting in for the next 15 - 20 years. As far as I'm concerned, there is a cloud surrounding everyone from 1993 and onward and no one, including Jeter and Ken Griffey Jr., is above reproach.

Regarding whether fulltime DHs should be HOF'ers, I can understand the argument against, but I certainly do not agree with with any part of it. If you want to hold DH's to a higher standard, Fine. I'm good with that. Edgar Martinez (the trailblazer) and Ortiz (the Best) still get in. Period.

In order for the No-HoF-for-DHs crowd to not be hypocritical, then theoretically no American League pitcher should be eligible for the HoF either. After all, they don't pick up a stick and step into the batters' box. The DH is a bona fide position in the game of baseball played in North America to the point that it is a position at every level from the Majors down to Babe Ruth. It definitely deserves representation in the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum.

 

[nomar]

That is complete BS. You MUST be a Yankee fan to even think he shouldn't get in. By any objective measure, he gets in easily. He has the most hits ever as a DH, 431 homers and 1469 RBI and he is still producing at a high level. Add in 3 world series rings and a world series MVP and it is not even a question.

Deep's not a Yankee fan. Poor guy likes the Mets.

 

[Deepster]

That is complete BS. You MUST be a Yankee fan to even think he shouldn't get in. By any objective measure, he gets in easily. He has the most hits ever as a DH, 431 homers and 1469 RBI and he is still producing at a high level. Add in 3 world series rings and a world series MVP and it is not even a question.

I'm a Mets fan and don't have any rooting interest for or against the Sox. I actually like Ortiz and enjoy the whole Big Papi "character".

Go compare his career stats to Edgar Martinez and get back to me. Martinez has never received more than 36% of the HOF vote and you need 75% to get in. And....he doesn't have the steroid tainting his numbers.

 

[Husky25]

I'm a Mets fan and don't have any rooting interest for or against the Sox. I actually like Ortiz and enjoy the whole Big Papi "character".

Go compare his career stats to Edgar Martinez and get back to me. Martinez has never received more than 36% of the HOF vote and you need 75% to get in. And....he doesn't have the steroid tainting his numbers.

In December 2007 former Mariners outfielder Shane Monahan gave an interview with ESPN.com in which he stated that amphetamines and steroids were both rampant in the team's clubhouse in the late '90s. Monahan said that just about every Seattle player other than former catcher Dan Wilson used amphetamines while he was in Seattle. Martínez, like former teammates Jamie Moyer and Raúl Ibáñez denied allegations of such use in the clubhouse. Martínez made this statement while visiting the Mariners in spring training: I don't know why [Monahan] said that, I was there for a long time, and I didn't see what he saw... What are you going to do? There has been a lot of this going on around baseball... But like I said, I was there for a long time and never saw any of that. —Edgar Martínez, The Seattle Times: March 15, 2008.

As I said, NO ONE is above reproach.

 

[Huskybass]

I'm a Mets fan and don't have any rooting interest for or against the Sox. I actually like Ortiz and enjoy the whole Big Papi "character".

Go compare his career stats to Edgar Martinez and get back to me. Martinez has never received more than 36% of the HOF vote and you need 75% to get in. And....he doesn't have the steroid tainting his numbers.

OK. I am getting back to you. Papi already has 60 more home runs and 200 more RBI than Martinez finished with. And he will add to those totals. Additionally, he has 3 world series rings and a world series MVP award. Martinez had zero. Those are pretty big distinguishers. He is also a 9 time all star and holds the career records for hits, homers, and RBI as a DH. In my mind, he gets in the HOF easily.

 

[Dogdeacon]

OK. I am getting back to you. Papi already has 60 more home runs and 200 more RBI than Martinez finished with. And he will add to those totals. Additionally, he has 3 world series rings and a world series MVP award. Martinez had zero. Those are pretty big distinguishers. He is also a 9 time all star and holds the career records for hits, homers, and RBI as a DH. In my mind, he gets in the HOF easily.

That's the difference. 3 World Series wins for a team that had gone without any for so long and he's the only guy on every one of those teams. Add the big moments in 2004 and this year and the MVP and his likability and he is in. You want a museum to celebrate greatness in baseball and this guys been the poster child for that for 9 years and counting. Arguing otherwise particularly today is just being a turd in the punchbowl.

And ultimately it doesn't matter cuz in Boston Big Papi is now in a very select immortal class with Bobby Orr, Larry Bird, Teddy Ballgame, Bill Russell etc...

 

[G0UCONN]

I'm a Mets fan and don't have any rooting interest for or against the Sox. I actually like Ortiz and enjoy the whole Big Papi "character".

Go compare his career stats to Edgar Martinez and get back to me. Martinez has never received more than 36% of the HOF vote and you need 75% to get in. And....he doesn't have the steroid tainting his numbers.

Ortiz's ridiculous postseason performance year after year beyond the great DH numbers gets him in...unless the PED usage possibility keeps him out. Going to end with 500 HRs....

No one in my lifetime has come close in terms of the number of big October hits and HRs as he has. No one.

No Ortiz in Boston....fans are still chanting 1918...

He is in.

 

[Huskybass]

As well as he has performed in his Boston years, 11 years isn't a large enough sample to get him enough votes. (See Mattingly, Don). The other mitigating factors against are: DH and 2003 PED questions.
But, he'll always be amongst my favorite Sox players - up there with Dewey and Yaz.

Papi already has 150 more homers and 400 more RBI than Mattingly retired with. Plus 3 world series rings and a world series mvp award. Not even close to the same credentials.

 

[Scoe]

Papi already has 150 more homers and 400 more RBI than Mattingly retired with. Plus 3 world series rings and a world series mvp award. Not even close to the same credentials.

if Papi gets in then so should Bonds

 

[G0UCONN]

Player wise Bonds is one of top few (top 5) to ever play.

His issue is his steroid connection is far above nearly every other player...he is the poster child for the issue.

 

[Husky25]

if Papi gets in then so should Bonds

I have no problem with admitting Bonds. It should be stated on his plaque though the following (not in so many words, but the gist.): Much of Barry Bonds career occurred during the "Steriod Era" and he was suspected of using performance enhancing drugs, but it has not been proven to date. Bonds testified to a grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream given to him by a trainer who was indicted in a steroid-distribution ring, but said he didn't know they were steroids.

Same with Clemens, Palmiero, Bagwell, et al.

 

[Excalibur]

If the steroid issue didn't exist, he's a borderline guy who might have sneaked in eventually. With his name linked to PEDs, there is virtually no chance.

 

[mauconnfan]

I didn't think he'd get it in, but now...

What do you think?

You need to have "No, I'm a Yankee fan that is also a BASEBALL fan"......LOL

 

[mauconnfan]

You guys are really nuts....this 11-15 series suddenly makes a DH a HOFer? Wow you're whacked........Bernie Williams has more HR's and More RBI in the playoffs and 4 GG's because he actually played the field- should he be in too..

Geez guys you have the most clutch DH ever and the best, that's all!!! Not close and as I've said before it would be a shame. There's a reason the swing came back too so let's not lose sight of that!

 

[zyron]

No Ortiz in Boston....fans are still chanting 1918...

He is in.

Bagwell was a better player who never failed a test. Won ROY, MVP and a GG and his numbers are better in every way. He also stole over 200 bases. Played the field his entire career.

But he isn't in and Ortiz should be? What about Piazza, better in every way.

 

[G0UCONN]

Bagwell belongs. So does Piazza.

As does Ortiz.

 

[Deepster]

OK. I am getting back to you. Papi already has 60 more home runs and 200 more RBI than Martinez finished with. And he will add to those totals. Additionally, he has 3 world series rings and a world series MVP award. Martinez had zero. Those are pretty big distinguishers. He is also a 9 time all star and holds the career records for hits, homers, and RBI as a DH. In my mind, he gets in the HOF easily.

And Martinez is a .312 career hitter and a 7 time all star. The power differential can easily be explained with PED usage. Ortiz's 3 rings are team accomplishments.

Mind you. Martinez is only at 36% and needs 75%. No way Ortiz's performance in 20-30 postseason games DOUBLES the number of HOF voter's minds.