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Message: [QUOTE="RockyMTblue2, post: 3625179, member: 250"] Notice how up in their grill he was? And they have to start in that position, so yeah it is tough and you are probably right that it is the end of a tiring season. But there is something artificial about it the way they start and passing to a team mate is not an option. So much of the personal trainer stuff is of marginal utility other than some conditioning. Geno is not keen on the utility of trainers. [/QUOTE]