Pac 12 / Big 10 scheduling alliance

[Carl Spackler]

Seems that the two major conferences with their own broadcasting platforms are teaming up. Interesting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/29/s...e-scheduling-partnership.html?_r=2&ref=sports

 

[freescooter]

almost sounds like they are planning for a post-BCS world, too and are planning to re-create the Rose Bowl as it was played between 1948 and 1998 with the B-10 Champ against the PAC 12 Champ.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Not just post season implications and the BCS system.

It's a significant movement in the system in general. Game inventory and viewer reach is essential to value of broadcasting network contracts. The inventory of games for the likes of ESPN/ABC, Comcast/NBC, etc just got smaller.

But I see this as quite beneficial to the big east conference.

The big east conference, in football, with the addition of western schools and southern schools, has significantly increased it's game inventory and reach, and the big east as an athletic sport/entertainment product is out there on the open market in two years, and therefore the value of those games on an open market essentially just went up with the pac 12/ and big 10 closing off game inventory to the open broadcasting market.

 

[pepband99]

Devil's advocate - this made scheduling intersectional matchups very very difficult. Why would Penn St, for example, need another BCS conference OOC game, in this scenario? They maybe have one slot open, per year, in this scenario.

PAC12
MAC
I-AA
"open"

This year, they played 2 MAC teams, so that open might not exist.

Given the new BE's concentration around B101112 and PAC12 country, this is not a good thing.

 

[The Funster]

I think that it is a well considered, forward thinking, proactive move.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I disagree, b/c this isn't about rivalrly, or scheduling convenenience, it's about TV money. By scheduling each other, in all sports - and the bowl game especially? it's about keeping the game inventory on their own conference networks, all the money stays in house. Remember that ESPN and FOX funded that massive Pac-12 contract and that the big 10 network is 49% ownership by FOX television. The pac-12 network, as far as I know, will be the first television broadcasting network solely owned by the conference. Might be wrong about that.

But cross scheduling basketball and all the olympics this way, and football once a year, effectively gives FOX and ESPN complete return on their investments, and gives both conferences more money. I wonder if anti-trust issues actually come into play in this whole thing, at least with the big 10 network.

Look at it this way, by doing this - it's essentially the same thing as a conference adding new football members, just like the big east just did, except without the messiness of conference re-alignment, and it's very much beneficial to making money in broadcasting games on each other's network.

Very smart move for those conferences, and IMO, makes the big east inventory at the end of 2013, when the ESPN and CBS contracts run out - that much more of a hot commodity.

I'm going to predict right now, that Syracuse and PIttsburgh are going to be very much unhappy with the moves they made come 2014, and I can easily see them backing out on going to the ACC.

 

[Carl Spackler]

p.s. we'll see what happens. y'all thought I was nuts when the Villanova upgrade talks were dragging out and I said that if Villanova did not make the jump, the big east conference as we knew it would be completely changed by the end of the year, and might be compeltely gone by the end of 2013.

I'm very happy with where I see teh big east conference as a whole, and uconn football going. It was real hairy there for a while. I still need to be convinced that they've really changed their mode of operating over there in Providence, but all signs so far are looking good.

15-25 years ago, you could operate a big time basketball conference without big time football. Not anymore.

It will be real interesting to see where Notre Dame ends up in all of this. There' going to have a hard time scheduling Pac12 and Big 10 teams in a couple years.

 

[mattp]

I'm going to predict right now, that Syracuse and PIttsburgh are going to be very much unhappy with the moves they made come 2014, and I can easily see them backing out on going to the ACC.

care to elaborate? it would be nice to see, but i can't imagine what would make them want to back out. i also don't think ND will have any trouble whatsoever scheduling whoever they want. the teams they want to schedule will certainly dump their 1AA game or MAC game to play them

 

[RS9999X]

They want to provide the best content they can.

The way they are paid through cable means there is no overlap in footprint states.

There are enough weak teams in each conference to book 2 games a year in Football and together dominate their markets. Larry Scott is no fool. He doesn't have many slots left.

This consolidation as an act of freezing out the non-BCS conferences. They want to divest themselves completely of the bottom 60 teams.

If the B12 went to 14 and added RU, UConn, Cincy and Louisville the whole world would sleep easier and it would be a done deal. The BCS clubs could inbreed with impunity with 9 game schedules and major conference lockups.

 

[zls44]

I'm going to predict right now, that Syracuse and PIttsburgh are going to be very much unhappy with the moves they made come 2014, and I can easily see them backing out on going to the ACC.

Ah, no.

 

[SO#1]

p.s. we'll see what happens. y'all thought I was nuts when the Villanova upgrade talks were dragging out and I said that if Villanova did not make the jump, the big east conference as we knew it would be completely changed by the end of the year, and might be compeltely gone by the end of 2013.

I'm very happy with where I see teh big east conference as a whole, and uconn football going. It was real hairy there for a while. I still need to be convinced that they've really changed their mode of operating over there in Providence, but all signs so far are looking good.

15-25 years ago, you could operate a big time basketball conference without big time football. Not anymore.

It will be real interesting to see where Notre Dame ends up in all of this. There' going to have a hard time scheduling Pac12 and Big 10 teams in a couple years.

If you want to make it difficult for independent programs make it mandatory for every conference game to be play in October and November without exception and all OOC games in September and/or 2nd week of December with the first week of December reserve for conference championship week. I think Pac-12 has something like that but they have exception for ND.

 

[RS9999X]

The SEC will announce their lockup schedule next year at this time as will the ACC. I expect 9 game conference schedules. Bad politics makes anything but an SEC and ACC lockup the next marketing arrangement.

 

[zls44]

If you want to make it difficult for independent programs make it mandatory for every conference game to be play in October and November without exception and all OOC games in September and/or 2nd week of December with the first week of December reserve for conference championship week. I think Pac-12 has something like that but they have exception for ND.

Which would mean that RU and UConn are not going to go out and be Indies.

 

[huskymedic]

Interesting comment by Delaney in an ESPN story on subject:

"Some of the creative events could take place at NFL stadiums or at the Rose Bowl, in and out of the leagues' foot­prints. Delany mentioned Yankee Stadi­um, Atlanta and Texas as possibilities for some neutral-site games. But he said the majority of the football contests would likely be held on campuses."

 

[Point6]

If ACC and SEC join forces - we will dance with the BIG 12. If SEC and Big 12 hook up, we will be the last girl at the bar for the ACC. Either way, we improve our situation and because of the planned geography of the Big East , we fit with either (left over) conference.

 

[RS9999X]

The bad blood between the SEC/ACC isn't like the SEC/B12 (Missouri and Texas A&M fallout) or ACC/BE (BCU +4 fallout)

Many of the intrastate rivals play already (Georgia/Georgia Tech and Florida/Florida State).

Each conference has 14 teams.

It's a natural marriage. And God knows the SEC likes playing weaklings from the South ​

 

[UConnJim]

Conference expansion has not been about just the BCS, but about scheduling. It appears conferences are going to 9 conference games. Add in the Big 10/Pac12 agreement and that adds another game, with only 2 OOC games available for the two conferences. Thus, there will be limited ability for schools to schedule OOC games for football with the Big 10 or Pac 12.

The key question going forward is will some conferences go to 16 teams and create their own scheduling inventory or will there be more inter conference arangements? I think the SEC will lead and I would bet they go to 16 teams and have full control of game inventory.

 

[B1GEast]

This is all pointing to the AQ going away, thus strength of schedule will be vital, and the b10 and pac12 are setting themselves up, the SEC and ACC will soon follow. Everyone know's what's going on except JM, you don't have to kill the BE, just don't schedule them and you'll shut them out of the BCS.

 

[B1GEast]

ND is in on this, a full partner to the b10 and pac 12, they should be scheduling BE teams, but the BE is ND's whore.

 

[tduconn]

From a fan perspective, business revenue and exposure standpoint, I think this is a smart more. More meaningful games for fans, higher TV viewership and advertising revenues for TV networks, more exposure and revenue to conferences and teams. These two conferences are creating an environment that achieves the goals of a raid with less controversy.......and perhaps even better rates of return on their initiative.

As far as bowl games, strngth of schedule gets the better conferences the bigger bucks.

It would not surprise me if ACC/AC/Big 12 for a similar alliance.....in part or whole.

This is bad for Big East....in all aspects/sports. ....... but most of all, in revenues. An alliance with WAC, MAC, USA, MWC teams may be far reaching in geography only, but will not attract the money or viewership the other alliances do.

Thank you Providence for being foward thinking for your conference members and its once proud sports tradition.

 

[Carl Spackler]

care to elaborate? it would be nice to see, but i can't imagine what would make them want to back out. i also don't think ND will have any trouble whatsoever scheduling whoever they want. the teams they want to schedule will certainly dump their 1AA game or MAC game to play them

Just call it a feeling. They'll have a full year still in conference in 2013, when the negotiations for a broadcasting contract are going on. Both the CBS contracts and the ESPN contracts for big east inventory broadcasting run out in 2013. The entire big east inventory will be up for sale, and Cuse and Pitt will be sitting on the outside watching the rest of the programs, and thinking real hard about post season basketball tournaments played in the Carolina's vs MSG, losing the annual 35,000 ticket sales for UConn-Syracuse games at the dome......missing out on potentially piggybacking weekly nationally broadcast big east football games with Notre Dame broadcasts on NBC on saturdays.......

the key to all of it, as I"ve said all along, big east survival - is that the leadership in providence needs to have a fundamental paradigm shift in priorities. Football needs to be priority 1 for the basketball conference to remain on top in the current intercollegiate landscape.

It's taken 25 years, and the loss of Penn State, BC, Miami, Virginia Tech, and currently Syracuse, PItt and WVU.....in conjunction with the president of UConn, and the governor of CT openly talking about leaving the conference for them to get it over there in Providence.

But I think they finally get it. And I do think that they may be able to save Pitt and Cuse yet for basketball.

West Virginia? IF I'm running the conference, I'm not sure what I"d do, but it would be hard to convince me not to shaft them so hard they can't ever walk.

THere weren't any significnat rules in place when BC/VTech, led by Miami, did their thing back in 2002-2003.

There are now.

 

[mattp]

my guess is that WVU buys out after the 2012 season. i think a judge is a lot more likely to allow them to leave between 2012 and 2013 when we have our replacements coming in, and have a year to figure out scheduling than they are to allow them to leave before next season. i'd rather let the 3 departing schools pay some cash and move on with our new conference at that point. keeping them around at that point is like having your long time girlfriend break up with you, but you beg her to stay around for another month to be your date to a family function. it's just dragging out the inevitable and it's not doing anybody any good

 

[freescooter]

I spoke to a BC guy who played for them their last season in the Big East. he talked about how miserable that season wasfor every road game...Seemed there was some little problem with every game and at some places there were major issues...locker rooms weren't available when they were supposed to be, or weren't equipt with everything that was expected. One time there was no hot water. Nobody would speak to them. Just a very nasty existence. The idea of Pitt, Syracuse, and especially West Virginia having to endure that is especially heartwarming to me. I would love to see each of them having to play SDSU and Bosie on the road two weeks apart personally. At SDSU, tough home game, At Boise.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I can't imagine Pitt, Cuse and WVU getting home football games against any of the western/southern opponents in 2013. I can foresee some horrendous road trips for the bball teams back and forth from texas and florida too.

I think the only way the big east would allow cuse and pitt to stay at the table, should a really nice shiny apple appear in 2013, is if their leadership stepped down in place of new leadership, but I just can't imagine that the leadership at both of those universities is going to be looking at where they're goign in 2014 and be happy with it.

Duke, North Carolina aren't coming to the carrier dome every year, and the uconn/cuse b-ball game in february is already 35,000+ seats sold at the carrier dome, like usual. Do the math.

That single game for syracuse against us probably brings close, to, if not more money than the entire basketball ticket sales for a full season at a school, like say - BC. The ending of playing in the basketball tournament at MSG every spring.

I don't think many things have really set in for the people associated with those universities, especially when the yearly pay day from broadcasting contracts starts to show up in 2013.

The big east almost died this year, but hopefully it will never happen again, as long as the leadership priorities have shifted.

I just have this feeling, as long as i'm right in believing that hte priorities have really shifted in the providence offices, that come end of 2013, the big east conference is going to be a very financially secure and strong conference with a nationwide broadcasting footprint and the backing of some very powerful media forces.

There's an old saying, in that things don't ever end unless they end badly. I have a feeling that the marriage of the big east to ESPN, which goes all the way back to the very roots of both entities, is going to be over, adn the big east will be much better off for it.