OT: USWNT pay

Discussion in 'Soccer' started by JSM1970, Nov 20, 2016.

  1. JSM1970

    JSM1970

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2015
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    504
    They are so annoying. Stop this BS.

    You get paid based on your value and revenue. No one cares, it's an awful product.

    Women's soccer is terrible, slow, no power,can't make kicks, runs, etc.
     
  2. upstater

    upstater

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    21,582
    Likes Received:
    11,780
    They are basing it on their value and revenue. They are hugely popular. Their ratings are 1/2 the men, and they are paid 1/10th per game.

    Have you done any research on this?

    They are the best team in the world.

    I bet you Carly Lloyd is more popular than any American soccer playing men.
     
    UConnDan97 likes this.
  3. ZooCougar

    ZooCougar

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,757
    Likes Received:
    9,179
    I'd pay them more, they deserve more. Not sure about equal, but I wouldn't be opposed to it if the numbers support it.

    Also, FWIW. The USSF basically bankrolls the NWSL which is basically a black hole. It's not like the USSF is still funneling money to MLS.
     
  4. upstater

    upstater

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    21,582
    Likes Received:
    11,780
    There is some support of MLS through USSF, which is USMNT players receive a topped off salary to play there.

    I agree that the whole needs to be taken into account--but ultimately, the women shouldn't be used to subsidize the men's side (as tempting as that is, because though the women don't have anyone to draw them away from the USA, the USSF probably wants to lure dual nationals with the promise of better salaries). You'd think the national teams would have boosters like Auburn does.
     
  5. ZooCougar

    ZooCougar

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,757
    Likes Received:
    9,179
    RE: MLS I don't believe that is true. Most of the teams are turning a profit these day. The league is at a point where it has more money than the federation.
     
  6. JSM1970

    JSM1970

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2015
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    504
    The Women's WC and total attendance was like 1/20th men's.

    Can't believe Carli Lloyd had the audacity to say we deserve more because "we win."

    They win for the same reasons the USMNT doesn't, the flawed USA model of thinking athlecthism matters in high level
    soccer.

    Women's soccer is gaining popularity internationally, though it's still not even fair to say it's reached WNBA status compared to NBA.

    Did anyone watch the Olympics, the U23 men's games were jammed and the women'snteams had like 50 people in the stands.

    Sorry for rant, I think the top Women's US pro team draws 2-3k/game for $10 ticket.

     
  7. upstater

    upstater

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    21,582
    Likes Received:
    11,780
    Measuring the popularity of the USA women by averaging in the popularity of all the others?
    I went to WC games in Montreal (Spain v. Brazil) and the stadium was 3/4 filled.

    But that's irrelevant. We're talking about the USA women. They are immensely popular in the USA.
     
  8. meyers7

    meyers7 Smarty Pants

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,609
    Likes Received:
    11,013
    I don't really think they want to be treated equal. Because then they would lose their salaries. And they bring in about 1/2 the income the men's team does on a 4 year cycle. They'd be taking a big pay cut if they were treated equally on the pay issues.

    However, I do think there is plenty of room for improvement on travel, accommodations, fields used, etc.
     
    ZooCougar likes this.
  9. upstater

    upstater

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    21,582
    Likes Received:
    11,780
    The breakdown I saw is that they actually bring in a lot of dough, because they play more games. They are a revenue source, not a drain.
     
  10. meyers7

    meyers7 Smarty Pants

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,609
    Likes Received:
    11,013
    Or they are a revenue source, but not at the MNT level. (over a 4 year period - when the filed they compared an off MNT year, no WC or qualifiers, with their WC year)
     
  11. upstater

    upstater

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    21,582
    Likes Received:
    11,780
    The levels of pay are very different right now. Night and day.
     
  12. meyers7

    meyers7 Smarty Pants

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,609
    Likes Received:
    11,013
    Yea I know, the WNT is getting their salaries paid by US Soccer. The men aren't. If the women want to give that up and just get the compensation for NT work (and only get it when they are called in) I don't think they are going to be as happy. That would be fair though, and that's not what they are asking for.
     
  13. upstater

    upstater

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    21,582
    Likes Received:
    11,780
    The men do get salaries from USSF, the ones in MLS at least. But they are also paid per game.
     
  14. ZooCougar

    ZooCougar

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,757
    Likes Received:
    9,179
    They get paid by USSF for some things, for playing in the World Cup and other FIFA events they get paid FIFA through the USSF as do the women.

    The one thing that is really bad optics is that the men made more getting to the round of 16 than the women made winning the World Cup. This money comes from FIFA and the Women have argued that the USSF shouldn't pass on the inequality and make up the difference with USSF funds.
     
  15. upstater

    upstater

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    21,582
    Likes Received:
    11,780
    I agree that the men did very well, and it is harder in the men's game to qualify for the elimination rounds. Therefore, if this is how things happened regularly, the women would have no beef. I don't think the USA men are at that level however.
     
  16. meyers7

    meyers7 Smarty Pants

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,609
    Likes Received:
    11,013
    HuskyHawk likes this.
  17. Chuck

    Chuck

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    489
    Likes Received:
    538
    Do the women get a cut of their endorsement and product sales (including shirts and other gear without their numbers/names)? My daughter barely pays attention to soccer she isn't playing, but she can tell you about almost everyone on the USWNT. Most girls in our program have a USWNT jersey and they are typically upgraded regularly for kit changes. My son is an odd 10 year old that can name a high percentage of the rosters of popular international teams and national teams, including earning me a beer from a German guy at a New Jersey bar that was ecstatic that he could name half the German National Team at Europa last year. He can name more USWNT players (and English, German, Spanish, Argentinian, etc.) than USMNT players.

    That's where I think the argument is for the women players to get more money because they win. If stadiums are less full, and prize money is less, compared to the men, then that should impact payment. The women's success, however, leads to more outside money. I'd be surprised if the US men sold as much gear / endorsements. If they are getting a cut of that, their argument is more tenuous. Equal should mean equal split and access, not equal pay.

    Separately, Alex Morgan should get a cut from any pink pretape sales.
     
  18. upstater

    upstater

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    21,582
    Likes Received:
    11,780
  19. meyers7

    meyers7 Smarty Pants

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,609
    Likes Received:
    11,013
    Duh, I'm talking about the teams they play for. Seattle Sounders or Borussia Dortmund or Western NY Flash or Houston Dash. USSF pays for the WNT's players salaries for their team. Does not do that for the MNT.
     
    ZooCougar likes this.
  20. upstater

    upstater

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    21,582
    Likes Received:
    11,780
    They don't pay more though. It is their salary. It is the same thing. When the women are quoted as earning $70k a year, they don't get more money for playing in the women's league. It is part of their contract. In other words, the salary covers both.
     
  21. ZooCougar

    ZooCougar

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,757
    Likes Received:
    9,179
    That's because there is no money in women's club soccer.
     
  22. upstater

    upstater

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    21,582
    Likes Received:
    11,780
    Right, but you can deduct the typical club salary of $35k from the national team's $70k, and deduce that they are paid $35k plus wins-bonuses for NT play.
     
  23. meyers7

    meyers7 Smarty Pants

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,609
    Likes Received:
    11,013
    Nope. Again you need to read that link I gave you a few posts ago.
     
  24. upstater

    upstater

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    21,582
    Likes Received:
    11,780
    What part? I read it. What are you talking about? Max salary for the league is $35k.
     
  25. meyers7

    meyers7 Smarty Pants

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,609
    Likes Received:
    11,013
    The women’s team’s pay is a mix of a base salary — $72,000 for the majority of players on the regular roster — plus a modest game bonus ($1,350) for each game won. (The women do not receive game bonuses if they tie or lose matches.) U.S. Soccer also pays the salaries of the national team players who compete in the N.W.S.L., the nascent American women’s professional league, as well as providing some health insurance benefits, severance pay for players cut from the team and maternity leave at half pay if they become pregnant.

    The men, meanwhile, operate on a pay-for-play system: Those players who are called in for matches are eligible for roster and game bonuses considerably higher than those paid to the women, but a player must be called into camp to receive anything.

    Pretty straight forward.

    This was one of the problems many people had with who the WNT was calling in to camps. As some of the players got older or weren't really performing, they still got called into camp because of the "if we are paying their salaries, we ought to use them for the NT" thinking. So some of the younger up and coming players weren't called in or used because they weren't in that base salary group.
     
  26. upstater

    upstater

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    21,582
    Likes Received:
    11,780
    Yep, you're right. I don't think the league money though is really the basis for any part of the complaint. It is the bonus money. If the league money is $20k to $37k (i.e. Hope Solo--who is older--had a $20k salary before the contract was ripped up), that much is not going to be the difference. Solo could make almost $200k from winning games.
     
  27. ZooCougar

    ZooCougar

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,757
    Likes Received:
    9,179
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/22/sports/soccer/usmnt-uswnt-soccer-equal-pay.html?_r=0

    How Are the Players Paid?
    The pay plans differ for the men’s and women’s national teams, who have their own players’ associations and negotiate their own collective bargaining agreements. The women’s team’s pay is a mix of a base salary — $72,000 for the majority of players on the regular roster — plus a modest game bonus ($1,350) for each game won. (The women do not receive game bonuses if they tie or lose matches.) U.S. Soccer also pays the salaries of the national team players who compete in the N.W.S.L., the nascent American women’s professional league, as well as providing some health insurance benefits, severance pay for players cut from the team and maternity leave at half pay if they become pregnant.




    The men, meanwhile, operate on a pay-for-play system: Those players who are called in for matches are eligible for roster and game bonuses considerably higher than those paid to the women, but a player must be called into camp to receive anything. So when Tim Howard took a year off after the 2014 World Cup, he earned no pay from U.S. Soccer for the games he missed. Any player who is injured, or one who is on the fringes of the national team player pool and is not called in for months or years, receives nothing until he returns to camp. The security net is that every male player in the pool, unlike the women, has the advantage of falling back on a lucrative salary from his professional club.
     
  28. meyers7

    meyers7 Smarty Pants

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,609
    Likes Received:
    11,013
    Of course not. That's the problem with their complaint. They aren't acknowledging all the money the USSF is actually paying them when they complain about inequality. Not saying that there isn't inequality or that some things should probably change, but they are not being honest.

    They are saying hey look at this inequality while pushing aside the "they also pay your club salary and basically prop up a league so you can play" part. They don't do that for the men. They really want to be "equal" and not get paid their salary and not have a league to play in and only get paid for actually being called in? Doubt it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
  29. upstater

    upstater

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    21,582
    Likes Received:
    11,780
    Yes, but how do you know they don't mention this? I mean, it is not a huge part of the compensation, so there's no skin off their back. It's $20-30k.
     
  30. meyers7

    meyers7 Smarty Pants

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,609
    Likes Received:
    11,013
    Because people like you are running around misrepresenting the facts.