OT: The Law Of Unintended Consequences: Eagles,Cows, Coyotes, Cougars

[RockyMTblue2]

I love it. C'mon guys, get just a little mad.

Listen Genghis we save the heavy fire for basketball! That's what I call the mods Killing Field BTW, which is why UConn game threads moved into the internment camp called chat

 

[RockyMTblue2]

My family ranched in Eastern Oregon for years, too. (We sold it just before my father passed, a few years ago.) And I'm frankly I get cross-eyed at veryolddog's account of raising boutique beef for the elites. It's a free market, and if that business model works for veryolddog, go for it. But I don't see how raising expensive beef for the benefit of the rich is more moral or socially beneficial than what the rest of us do - which is feeding the ordinary people nutritious meat using the most environmentally efficient methods possible. If we all followed veryolddog's business plan, we'd lose uncountable acres of wildlife habitat and make beef unaffordable for most of the population. I think that counts for more than giving a couple animals away to the local poor.

We ran a 1000-cows cow-calf operation, like veryolddog, grazing on open range, plus some meadows and winter hay. But we sold off our calves to feedlots, who can add far more meat far more efficiently using grain instead of grass. America is one huge factory for converting sunlight into food, and an acre of Iowa corn is an incredibly efficient machine, worth countless acres of western rangeland. It makes zero environmental or moral sense to waste marginal western lands on feeding and finishing steers. Rangelands are better used for producing calves - or, in much of the west - given to wildlife habitat.

(Why is rangeland Ok for cow-calf operations, but not feeding steers? We're not trying to put weight on those cows, so low-quality feed like range grass is sufficient.)

Unfortunately, even a lot of ranchers don't understand why the industry does things the way it does. If the shoppers at Whole Foods had any inkling of what "range-fed" really means in the big picture, they wouldn't touch the stuff. It may seem ironic to folks who don't understand how business and markets really work, but it is the pursuit of lowering costs and increasing profits that has allowed the beef industry to do a remarkable job of producing the most meat at the lowest environmental costs.

And, the greatest rancher in the history of WBB is Ruth Hamblin - OSU '16, by way of British Columbia. Starting center on #2 ranked team, 2nd round WNBA pick, multiple Pac-12 All-Conference, DPOY. Could have been a rodeo star, chose WBB instead.

How do you pronounce rodeo in eastern Oregon? Better question, same question for Oregon.

 

[veryolddog]

We do not feed lot beef in Montana sir! The weather forces them early out of their spring, summer, fall range and are then ranging on the valley ranches being fed the best hay in the world. The calves may be feed lot fed a couple of weeks before auction.

Dairy cow operations a whole different breed of operation.

Beef, it's whats for dinner.

I do not understand why criticism is warranted as to how and why I raise and sell the cattle on my ranch.

Let me go into history a little bit to explain my operation. My father purchased this land in 1930 for a dollar an acre during the great depression and it remained dormant until I decided to make the land work in 2002. I served in the Marine Corps for 23 years and had no experience in ranching and farming. While working in the business environment I studied the situation and saved the investment capital. When my wife and I moved there, there was a few crumbling buildings and no working wells. We live in a trailer, drilled for water and constructed our home. Having a business plan that we developed, we generally followed our plan, purchasing 250 head of cattle, constructed a barn and let the cattle roam the land. We arranged for the 200 acres of hay to be developed and later grew that to 1000 acres. I contacted companies in Dallas, Texas to explore my land for oil and natural gas. I hired a former 1st Sargent from the Marine Corps to manage the ranch as his family had agricultural experience. Built a home for him and his family and carved out 100 acres for him. With the use of the Internet as a tool, sales of beef and hay picked up by people with money. Natural gas was found and it took 3 years to get approval to harvest that fuel. (my understanding is that fuel heats a lot of homes in the NE during winter)

What I do not understand is why the way I make a profit from this land and the way I raise cattle and to whom I sell my hay and the cattle, makes any difference to anyone. We live in a capitalistic society, thank God, where any many can muster resources to invest like the stock market or his own business and realize the American Dream. Today, my land is worth millions. I could even start a new business by issuing permits to hunt elk and deer on land that come down from the mountains in large herds to feed in the winter. But, I won't do this. The only shooting is mine. I also have wild horses roaming my land since time began. They use my wells to drink along with the cattle and get fed hay in the winter. Frankly, they are very protective of me and the herd has grown. Because of what we (my wife and I and the 1st Sargent) have done, I can now enjoy many things. We have a home near my son in San Antonio, Texas and visit our grandchildren who are young adults.

Why is it such a problem to you as the way I choose to conduct business. It is my risk for success or failure. Apparently, my business model is not appreciated but it works. What you have works for you, and it does not matter to me. And I still view myself as the caretaker of this land.

 

[vtcwbuff]

I do not understand why criticism is warranted as to how and why I raise and sell the cattle on my ranch.

Neither do I. I could give my opinion but it would probably get me banned or at least get my post removed.

 

[Bama fan]

I do not understand why criticism is warranted as to how and why I raise and sell the cattle on my ranch.

Let me go into history a little bit to explain my operation. My father purchased this land in 1930 for a dollar an acre during the great depression and it remained dormant until I decided to make the land work in 2002. I served in the Marine Corps for 23 years and had no experience in ranching and farming. While working in the business environment I studied the situation and saved the investment capital. When my wife and I moved there, there was a few crumbling buildings and no working wells. We live in a trailer, drilled for water and constructed our home. Having a business plan that we developed, we generally followed our plan, purchasing 250 head of cattle, constructed a barn and let the cattle roam the land. We arranged for the 200 acres of hay to be developed and later grew that to 1000 acres. I contacted companies in Dallas, Texas to explore my land for oil and natural gas. I hired a former 1st Sargent from the Marine Corps to manage the ranch as his family had agricultural experience. Built a home for him and his family and carved out 100 acres for him. With the use of the Internet as a tool, sales of beef and hay picked up by people with money. Natural gas was found and it took 3 years to get approval to harvest that fuel. (my understanding is that fuel heats a lot of homes in the NE during winter)

What I do not understand is why the way I make a profit from this land and the way I raise cattle and to whom I sell my hay and the cattle, makes any difference to anyone. We live in a capitalistic society, thank God, where any many can muster resources to invest like the stock market or his own business and realize the American Dream. Today, my land is worth millions. I could even start a new business by issuing permits to hunt elk and deer on land that come down from the mountains in large herds to feed in the winter. But, I won't do this. The only shooting is mine. I also have wild horses roaming my land since time began. They use my wells to drink along with the cattle and get fed hay in the winter. Frankly, they are very protective of me and the herd has grown. Because of what we (my wife and I and the 1st Sargent) have done, I can now enjoy many things. We have a home near my son in San Antonio, Texas and visit our grandchildren who are young adults.

Why is it such a problem to you as the way I choose to conduct business. It is my risk for success or failure. Apparently, my business model is not appreciated but it works. What you have works for you, and it does not matter to me. And I still view myself as the caretaker of this land.

Exxon doesn't approve of Texaco's business model; U S Steel pooh poohs Nucor; Blue Bell thinks Edy's makes crap. Do what you do well, and enjoy the fruits of your labor! It matters not what others think. I , for one, am happy for you success.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I do not understand why criticism is warranted as to how and why I raise and sell the cattle on my ranch.

@veryolddog I love the way you do it - the old fashion, honest way that earns you the best beef prices you can get for the way that is preserving tradition and heritage and keeps people in touch with the land with cowboying skills. It's a song, but true with me: my heroes have always been cowboys. Will Penny is one of my all time favorite movies.

So I apologize if I said anything derogatory or seemed to say something negative. I have a dry sense of humor that sometimes get's misconstrued.

 

[veryolddog]

Sense of humor or not, words are words. And I cannot see a smile or the emotion behind the words and that seems to be a problem for me on this board. But on this point ranchers have a lot of different ways to produce revenue if it is cost effective paying for itself and producing a profit for re-investment into that business model I for one with wild horses could round up what I want and sell them to the rodeos for good money. However, wild horse herds, i. e. mustangs, are few and far between these days and I prefer to see this one thrive. Hunting leases and fishery leases in the mountains is another way to collect, but I have a problem with bunch of people running around on my land who do not real understand fire discipline. I have found dead cows and even dead horses killed by shot on different parts of my land because it is contiguous to the Santa Fe National Forest. The Feds wire the boundary, but that does not stop them.

Just for your information, I integrate the calfs back into the herd and sell the mature animals. People do not realize the costs of raising a herd which include veterinary expense for vaccinations and registration of the animals. Lot of paper work. So when predators decide to eat my cattle, I lose income and it is a waste of invested money.

My hay buyers from Florida, are asking me for more product so we have been considering another 500 acres. But I am old and we are doing just fine. My big problem is the operation of this entity after I die. What happens to it. Glad that there is no more death tax. Hoping that one of my boys takes a liking to it.

 

[JordyG]

Listen Genghis we save the heavy fire for basketball! That's what I call the mods Killing Field BTW, which is why UConn game threads moved into the internment camp called chat

Unfortunately I'm still unable to get in on the Chat Room. Nor can I Inbox anyone. So I'm stuck with trying to be an instigator in a discussion about bovines.

 

[Oldbones]

By the way most of my hay is sold to horse breeders in Florida which is also a big horse and cattle state.

And, Horses for Knightro and The Central Florida Knights.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

How long you got? kay-yo-teh is my personal fav. Lke the indigenous people I consider the coyote my brother. yutes signifing I shoot them critters every chance I get. Kyotes, see yutes. Ko-yoh-tee you aren't from around here are yuh. etc etc

Common on people, I worked hard to make that funny while politically correct!

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I like all coyotes, even or maybe especially ugly coyotes:

 

[RockyMTblue2]

And like I said, they hunt in packs and this is my favorite pack:

 

[ClifSpliffy]

In Texas we pronounce it Ky-oat. Or if we're talking pig latin we say Ky-o-tee. I raise quite a few game roosters each year and the coyote is my arch enemy. Nearly every week or so I will bait around 6 hava-hart type traps. I catch bob cats and coons rather easily. Quite frequently get a fox. But it is rare to get a coyote. I have caught 3 in the last 5 years or so. It's much easier to shoot them from a tractor seat. They are not afraid of a tractor at all. In fact they'll come out and follow you around to get the rats and rabbits that your stirring out when your plowing or shredding. Keep my old Stevens 22 in the cab and it often comes in rather handy.

The chupacabra on the other hand is wary critter that is starting to show up more in south central TX. I've seen two while riding my Indian Motorcyle down by the Brazos river road near Wilderville in Falls county. A very weird looking creature and they have a unique run like no other dog like animal. A rancher friend in Halletsville has trapped a couple but they were young. That's my luck with Coyotes, only trap the younger ones. Old ones are just too smart.

A while back I went to Cabelas and bought some shotgun shells and 22 bullets. The lady at the counter wanted to know if I would like to contribute to the "Save the Wildlife Fund". I said, "Maam, I'm buying these bullets to kill the wildlife that eat my chickens, why would I contribute to a fund to save them?" It went completely over her head. She just stared at me like a cow stares at a new gate.

ky-oat here in ct. the explosion of animal wildlife has been epic. its said that coyote dna has around 22% wolf in it these days, and yes, they're breeding, a lot. at my place, its nothing to see 10-15 yippin at the moon. I've also seen bigger posse's, and individuals up near 70 lbs. black bear, fishercats, hawks, bald eagles, bobcats, big owls, and, literally, herds of deer (some 250lbs+)have returned to the forest where, only yesterday, rabbits, squirrels, and the like were it. also, tropical type birds are much more frequent. add in the snakes, big snapping turtles, herons, turkeys and turkey vultures, some really weird beetles, partridge or whatever, extra jumbo dragon flies, and its become ….. a circus. the interesting thing is the tranquility of their co-existence, which I attribute to the sheer volume of food and water. their interaction is best characterized by a 'mornin' sam, mornin' clem..' posture. the only regular ornery s.o.b.'s are the white faced hornets.
back to the kyotes.. it seems their origination at my coastal peak involved positive socialization memories with us, and to this day, their patrol territory is everywhere on the spread--except for the residence and its immediate surroundings. they only come near to collect a dead squirrel or two that I regularly shoot cuz, you know, squirrels --the definition of varmint. those 'wolves' always seem to beat the rest of the predators to the chow line.
I've seen crow 'funerals,' sunbathing bobcats, 65lb beavers, black bears so picky that only oysters rockafeller will do, and a host of other sideshows, but the kyote? the wileyest of 'em all.
https://screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/coyote-and-road-runner-acme-rocket.jpg
ps. 'cow stares at a new gate.' awesomesauce. lol!

 

[Gus Mahler]

How long you got? kay-yo-teh is my personal fav. Lke the indigenous people I consider the coyote my brother. yutes signifing I shoot them critters every chance I get. Kyotes, see yutes. Ko-yoh-tee you aren't from around here are yuh. etc etc

I'm pretty sure it's pronounced Ki-yoh-tee where I come from . I'll have to ask my brother-in-law.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

ky-oat here in ct. the explosion of animal wildlife has been epic. its said that coyote dna has around 22% wolf in it these days, and yes, they're breeding, a lot. at my place, its nothing to see 10-15 yippin at the moon. I've also seen bigger posse's, and individuals up near 70 lbs. black bear, fishercats, hawks, bald eagles, bobcats, big owls, and, literally, herds of deer (some 250lbs+)have returned to the forest where, only yesterday, rabbits, squirrels, and the like were it. also, tropical type birds are much more frequent. add in the snakes, big snapping turtles, herons, turkeys and turkey vultures, some really weird beetles, partridge or whatever, extra jumbo dragon flies, and its become ….. a circus. the interesting thing is the tranquility of their co-existence, which I attribute to the sheer volume of food and water. their interaction is best characterized by a 'mornin' sam, mornin' clem..' posture. the only regular ornery s.o.b.'s are the white faced hornets.
back to the kyotes.. it seems their origination at my coastal peak involved positive socialization memories with us, and to this day, their patrol territory is everywhere on the spread--except for the residence and its immediate surroundings. they only come near to collect a dead squirrel or two that I regularly shoot cuz, you know, squirrels --the definition of varmint. those 'wolves' always seem to beat the rest of the predators to the chow line.
I've seen crow 'funerals,' sunbathing bobcats, 65lb beavers, black bears so picky that only oysters rockafeller will do, and a host of other sideshows, but the kyote? the wileyest of 'em all.
https://screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/coyote-and-road-runner-acme-rocket.jpg
ps. 'cow stares at a new gate.' awesomesauce. lol!

A great read @ClifSpliffy. In the late 90s the wild turkeys made a return with a vengeance in Fairfield Cty, and they really took a liking to the entrances/exits to the Merrit around Stamford and Darien. And the coyotes and coywolves were following. I was on my light tractor with brush hog in Newtown in the middle of the day and a big, big mostly black coyote jumped out of the tall grass I was cutting and headed to the woods. Got my pulse jumping!

 

[JordyG]

ky-oat here in ct. the explosion of animal wildlife has been epic. its said that coyote dna has around 22% wolf in it these days, and yes, they're breeding, a lot. at my place, its nothing to see 10-15 yippin at the moon. I've also seen bigger posse's, and individuals up near 70 lbs. black bear, fishercats, hawks, bald eagles, bobcats, big owls, and, literally, herds of deer (some 250lbs+)have returned to the forest where, only yesterday, rabbits, squirrels, and the like were it. also, tropical type birds are much more frequent. add in the snakes, big snapping turtles, herons, turkeys and turkey vultures, some really weird beetles, partridge or whatever, extra jumbo dragon flies, and its become ….. a circus. the interesting thing is the tranquility of their co-existence, which I attribute to the sheer volume of food and water. their interaction is best characterized by a 'mornin' sam, mornin' clem..' posture. the only regular ornery s.o.b.'s are the white faced hornets.
back to the kyotes.. it seems their origination at my coastal peak involved positive socialization memories with us, and to this day, their patrol territory is everywhere on the spread--except for the residence and its immediate surroundings. they only come near to collect a dead squirrel or two that I regularly shoot cuz, you know, squirrels --the definition of varmint. those 'wolves' always seem to beat the rest of the predators to the chow line.
I've seen crow 'funerals,' sunbathing bobcats, 65lb beavers, black bears so picky that only oysters rockafeller will do, and a host of other sideshows, but the kyote? the wileyest of 'em all.
https://screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/coyote-and-road-runner-acme-rocket.jpg
ps. 'cow stares at a new gate.' awesomesauce. lol!

Great post. White faced hornets. Yikes!

 

[ClifSpliffy]

A great read @ClifSpliffy. In the late 90s the wild turkeys made a return with a vengeance in Fairfield Cty, and they really took a liking to the entrances/exits to the Merrit around Stamford and Darien. And the coyotes and coywolves were following. I was on my light tractor with brush hog in Newtown in the middle of the day and a big, big mostly black coyote jumped out of the tall grass I was cutting and headed to the woods. Got my pulse jumping!

'light tractor?' lol. here's our rototiller. can't post a pic of our heavy duty groundhog since its parked out in the back 40, and im too lazy to walk. it's got a wet bar and a 120 incher with bose surround sound.
https://cocktailvp.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/14522788_634890166682786_6873177602888026143_n.jpg
new link.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

and the fencepost auger with Panasonic massage chairs. dig it!
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bqWko3D-nWs/maxresdefault.jpg

 

[JordyG]

H

and the fencepost auger with Panasonic massage chairs. dig it!
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bqWko3D-nWs/maxresdefault.jpg

Holy spitballs! That beats my Tonka by miles! Does that thing cook too? Does it have a sister?

 

[RockyMTblue2]

H

Holy spitballs! That beats my Tonka by miles! Does that thing cook too? Does it have a sister?

You could Japanese Horror Movie with that thing!

 

[Jim R]

I do not understand why criticism is warranted as to how and why I raise and sell the cattle on my ranch.

Let me go into history a little bit to explain my operation. My father purchased this land in 1930 for a dollar an acre during the great depression and it remained dormant until I decided to make the land work in 2002. I served in the Marine Corps for 23 years and had no experience in ranching and farming. While working in the business environment I studied the situation and saved the investment capital. When my wife and I moved there, there was a few crumbling buildings and no working wells. We live in a trailer, drilled for water and constructed our home. Having a business plan that we developed, we generally followed our plan, purchasing 250 head of cattle, constructed a barn and let the cattle roam the land. We arranged for the 200 acres of hay to be developed and later grew that to 1000 acres. I contacted companies in Dallas, Texas to explore my land for oil and natural gas. I hired a former 1st Sargent from the Marine Corps to manage the ranch as his family had agricultural experience. Built a home for him and his family and carved out 100 acres for him. With the use of the Internet as a tool, sales of beef and hay picked up by people with money. Natural gas was found and it took 3 years to get approval to harvest that fuel. (my understanding is that fuel heats a lot of homes in the NE during winter)

What I do not understand is why the way I make a profit from this land and the way I raise cattle and to whom I sell my hay and the cattle, makes any difference to anyone. We live in a capitalistic society, thank God, where any many can muster resources to invest like the stock market or his own business and realize the American Dream. Today, my land is worth millions. I could even start a new business by issuing permits to hunt elk and deer on land that come down from the mountains in large herds to feed in the winter. But, I won't do this. The only shooting is mine. I also have wild horses roaming my land since time began. They use my wells to drink along with the cattle and get fed hay in the winter. Frankly, they are very protective of me and the herd has grown. Because of what we (my wife and I and the 1st Sargent) have done, I can now enjoy many things. We have a home near my son in San Antonio, Texas and visit our grandchildren who are young adults.

Why is it such a problem to you as the way I choose to conduct business. It is my risk for success or failure. Apparently, my business model is not appreciated but it works. What you have works for you, and it does not matter to me. And I still view myself as the caretaker of this land.

From a fellow veteran, thanks for your service, and congrats on reaping the rewards of your hard work & resourcefulness. Semper Fi, and good on you!

 

[JordyG]

From a fellow veteran, thanks for your service, and congrats on reaping the rewards of your hard work & resourcefulness. Semper Fi, and good on you!

I double down on that. Damn right.