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Purple Stein

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Carsen Edwards 25 points and 8 boards in 25 minutes for the Cs last night. Plus an assist, a steal, a block, and no turnovers. Did go 9-23 (!!) from the field though. :cool:
 
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Carsen Edwards 25 points and 8 boards in 25 minutes for the Cs last night. Plus an assist, a steal, a block, and no turnovers. Did go 9-23 (!!) from the field though. :cool:
I’m happy for him. For some on this board it will prove that he will be an all time great.
 
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Brandon Clarke of the Grizzlies, #21 draft choice, won the summer league MVP. Really good ball player. Now how many of you basketball gurus, you know the guys that are analysts after a kid plays two ballgames, how many of you knew that Clarke would win the MVP?
I bet you all did. Here’s to the BB gurus!
 

HuskyHawk

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Brandon Clarke of the Grizzlies, #21 draft choice, won the summer league MVP. Really good ball player. Now how many of you basketball gurus, you know the guys that are analysts after a kid plays two ballgames, how many of you knew that Clarke would win the MVP?
I bet you all did. Here’s to the BB gurus!

Several of us here were urging the Celtics to take him at #20. He's just a good basketball player.
 
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Brandon Clarke of the Grizzlies, #21 draft choice, won the summer league MVP. Really good ball player. Now how many of you basketball gurus, you know the guys that are analysts after a kid plays two ballgames, how many of you knew that Clarke would win the MVP?
I bet you all did. Here’s to the BB gurus!
Should’ve been a Top-10 pick IMO, crazy athlete, efficient scorer and gonna be a lockdown defender.
 

the Q

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Several of us here were urging the Celtics to take him at #20. He's just a good basketball player.

I wanted him at 14. When he fell to 20 I was practically jumping off the couch.

Danny effectively picking grant and Edwards over him will be interesting to watch over the coming years.
 
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Brandon Clarke of the Grizzlies, #21 draft choice, won the summer league MVP. Really good ball player. Now how many of you basketball gurus, you know the guys that are analysts after a kid plays two ballgames, how many of you knew that Clarke would win the MVP?
I bet you all did. Here’s to the BB gurus!

This seems an odd criticism to make. Is this because of the Barrett criticism? Because Barrett was terrible in summer league. 30% from the field and 20% from 3. Eek.

I think most people who watch basketball know Brandon Clarke is a baller. The reason why he fell is that 6'8 guys who can't shoot worth a lick have a tough time in the NBA these days. He's a low ceiling player at this point. If he develops his shot, he could be a fringe all-star in no time.
 

the Q

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This seems an odd criticism to make. Is this because of the Barrett criticism? Because Barrett was terrible in summer league. 30% from the field and 20% from 3. Eek.

I think most people who watch basketball know Brandon Clarke is a baller. The reason why he fell is that 6'8 guys who can't shoot worth a lick have a tough time in the NBA these days. He's a low ceiling player at this point. If he develops his shot, he could be a fringe all-star in no time.

And he has a neutral wingspan. Which is rare for successful players.

But he’s so efficient in rim protection and finishing at the rim (plus being one he best athletes in this draft) that he’ll be an interesting test case.
 
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This seems an odd criticism to make. Is this because of the Barrett criticism? Because Barrett was terrible in summer league. 30% from the field and 20% from 3. Eek.

I think most people who watch basketball know Brandon Clarke is a baller. The reason why he fell is that 6'8 guys who can't shoot worth a lick have a tough time in the NBA these days. He's a low ceiling player at this point. If he develops his shot, he could be a fringe all-star in no time.
Just making a remark that its tough to judge after two games. Tough to judge in summer league. Most teams would have drafted Barrett #3 if they had the opportunity. Odd criticism? If you think so. Remember Trae Young was terrible last summer.
 
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Clarke was a divisive player in the NBA Draft twitterati. Some had him top 5 because of his efficient production, overhauled shot mechanics, and defensive impact.. Some had him late lottery. Nobody had him past 15, though, and that was silly as it happened.
 
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Just making a remark that its tough to judge after two games. Tough to judge in summer league. Most teams would have drafted Barrett #3 if they had the opportunity. Odd criticism? If you think so. Remember Trae Young was terrible last summer.
What do you like about Barrett's game? I've watched a ton of him since his first game at Duke and am still unsure of what he's really good at.
 
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What do you like about Barrett's game? I've watched a ton of him since his first game at Duke and am still unsure of what he's really good at.
I’m not sure what he’s really good at either. But when Zion was out he held that team together. All teams knew he would have the ball the majority of each game and he kept Duke together.
But most of all how many have judged a guy after two summer league games as a bust is ridiculous.
Many have. Wait half a year and then evaluate.
Like I said, if Tatum showed you what he was all about based on last year he would be evaluated much differently.
 
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So if we all knew that Clarke would be summer league MVP and maybe he will be rookie of the year he should have been drafted #3. Got to let it all play out.
Too many act like they are such great BB analysts and already cutting people up.
Where was Curry drafted? And who knew?
He developed his ball handling. He did not come out of college with those skills.
But I’m sure some on here knew that he would develop those skills.
 
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So if we all knew that Clarke would be summer league MVP and maybe he will be rookie of the year he should have been drafted #3. Got to let it all play out.
Too many act like they are such great BB analysts and already cutting people up.
Where was Curry drafted? And who knew?
He developed his ball handling. He did not come out of college with those skills.
But I’m sure some on here knew that he would develop those skills.

This is such a weak schtick. Sure, none of us are experts and are probably wrong more than right. We can still share our opinions.

The 2 players I am most excited to see play in the regular season because of their summer league work are Anfernee Simons and Lonnie Walker IV.
 
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This is such a weak schtick. Sure, none of us are experts and are probably wrong more than right. We can still share our opinions.

The 2 players I am most excited to see play in the regular season because of their summer league work are Anfernee Simons and Lonnie Walker IV.
Agree on Lonnie Walker. Im sure the Spurs are thrilled they will be getting their starting backcourt back.
 
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So if we all knew that Clarke would be summer league MVP and maybe he will be rookie of the year he should have been drafted #3. Got to let it all play out.
Too many act like they are such great BB analysts and already cutting people up.
Where was Curry drafted? And who knew?
He developed his ball handling. He did not come out of college with those skills.
But I’m sure some on here knew that he would develop those skills.

The type of improvement you're talking about is extrememly uncommon.

And as far as Tatum? Celtics fan should be, and are VERY concerned. He did NOT look good after the all star break last year. We blame locker room problems--let's hope a real leader like Kemba can help him reach his potential.
 

HuskyHawk

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So if we all knew that Clarke would be summer league MVP and maybe he will be rookie of the year he should have been drafted #3. Got to let it all play out.
Too many act like they are such great BB analysts and already cutting people up.
Where was Curry drafted? And who knew?
He developed his ball handling. He did not come out of college with those skills.
But I’m sure some on here knew that he would develop those skills.

The GMs don't know either. It's a calculated risk. All these players are a mix of natural athleticism, hard work on body and skills, natural skills (hand eye etc.), body type and size, and mental attributes, how well they feel the game, spacing, motion, decision making and leadership skills, which are both natural and learned.

Often the league has to pick guys mostly on the things that can't be learned. Size, natural athleticism, natural skills and hope for the best. But if you look at what separates the greats, for a few it's attributes they are born with (Lebron, Jordan) but even those guys work very hard on skills and have great mental aspects. Most other great players take above average innate talents and body and separate themselves with hard work and the mental aspect of the game. They make themselves great.

I wanted Clarke for Boston, in part because he's a great athlete, but also because he seems to have a great feel for the game and leadership skills. But I've learned more about Grant Williams than I knew when he was drafted. He was recruited to Harvard and Yale. He graduated in 3 years. He is very sharp, demonstrates great leadership and very much took a reduced role at Tennessee for the good of the team. Brad says "take 3's" and he worked on it and is shooting a high percentage. Will Clarke be better? Maybe. But I can't fault Ainge for valuing the kinds of things that lead to success for most players, that intelligence and work ethic.
 

the Q

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The GMs don't know either. It's a calculated risk. All these players are a mix of natural athleticism, hard work on body and skills, natural skills (hand eye etc.), body type and size, and mental attributes, how well they feel the game, spacing, motion, decision making and leadership skills, which are both natural and learned.

Often the league has to pick guys mostly on the things that can't be learned. Size, natural athleticism, natural skills and hope for the best. But if you look at what separates the greats, for a few it's attributes they are born with (Lebron, Jordan) but even those guys work very hard on skills and have great mental aspects. Most other great players take above average innate talents and body and separate themselves with hard work and the mental aspect of the game. They make themselves great.

I wanted Clarke for Boston, in part because he's a great athlete, but also because he seems to have a great feel for the game and leadership skills. But I've learned more about Grant Williams than I knew when he was drafted. He was recruited to Harvard and Yale. He graduated in 3 years. He is very sharp, demonstrates great leadership and very much took a reduced role at Tennessee for the good of the team. Brad says "take 3's" and he worked on it and is shooting a high percentage. Will Clarke be better? Maybe. But I can't fault Ainge for valuing the kinds of things that lead to success for most players, that intelligence and work ethic.

Wasn’t he b2b sed PoY?

How reduced was the role? They basically ran their offense through him at the high post.

I mean I love Williams. Love the story. I would be rooting for him if he was on virtually any team (minus a select few), but I get the concerns as well.

Clarke was an analytics darling who was actually a stud athlete. Some projections liked him a lot, giving him some of the highest chances to be a star in the draft.
 
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HuskyHawk

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Wasn’t he b2b sed PoY?

How reduced was the role? They basically ran their offense through him at the high post.

I mean I love Williams. Love the story. I would be rooting for him if he was on virtually any team (minus a select few), but I get the concerns as well.

Clarke was an analytics darling who was actually a stud athlete. Some projections liked him a lot, giving him some of the highest chances to be a star in the draft.

Yes, they did run a bunch of offense through him in the high post. But he stayed around the basket. So you saw some passing ability, inside scoring, rebounding, but not whether he could dribble or shoot from outside. If he was 6'10" that may not matter, but he's 6'7-8". So if he's an NBA 4, he needs to be a stretch 4.

Clarke had some weird metrics and comparisons. I think he was a good gamble because he managed to be much more effective than you'd think he should be for a guy who isn't that tall, has smallish hands and not a huge wingspan, but who's game is almost entirely around the rim. Very much like Barkley but with much better defense.
 
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Yes, they did run a bunch of offense through him in the high post. But he stayed around the basket. So you saw some passing ability, inside scoring, rebounding, but not whether he could dribble or shoot from outside. If he was 6'10" that may not matter, but he's 6'7-8". So if he's an NBA 4, he needs to be a stretch 4.

Clarke had some weird metrics and comparisons. I think he was a good gamble because he managed to be much more effective than you'd think he should be for a guy who isn't that tall, has smallish hands and not a huge wingspan, but who's game is almost entirely around the rim. Very much like Barkley but with much better defense.

Barkley + defense. Yes of course. Ha!

I know what you mean though. The comparison is good. And with the nba moving away from the hoop more and more every year, a 4 who is undersized is something you can get away with more than in Barkleys day
 

HuskyHawk

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Barkley + defense. Yes of course. Ha!

I know what you mean though. The comparison is good. And with the nba moving away from the hoop more and more every year, a 4 who is undersized is something you can get away with more than in Barkleys day

Yeah didn't mean Hall of Famer with better D. Just that he has similar intangible ability to score around the rim, while seemingly being disadvantaged in height. Barkley had more bulk though. But he couldn't palm a basketball.
 

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