OT: Russell Westbrook . . . Oh My! | The Boneyard

OT: Russell Westbrook . . . Oh My!

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This kid is ballin, and to believe he wasn't voted as a starter in the NBA All Star Game.

Harden, our own Kemba and of course Curry are doing their thing, but Westbrook has to be the best guard in the league right now.

38 triple doubles so far

Last night

57 points (record for a triple double)
13 rebounds
11 assists

He is not a gunner, which makes this season so remarkable. Of course he's doing all this against the best players in the world especially in the packed 'good guard' Western Conference.

 
MVP!

Though the race is really exciting this year. I wouldn't be surprised at all for Harden, Lebron, Russ, or even Kawhi to bring it home. This is a good time to be watching basketball.
 
I find him so polarizing. He is probably the most athletic basketball player I ever seen. I happened to watch the game last night (daughter went to bed early!) and his speed and explosiveness is other worldly. But his shot selection is atrocious some times and I know he does not have a lot of talent with him. But his shot selection was atrocious in the Olympics a few years back, too. He had seven first half turnovers (none in second, tho) and I found it a little bit odd at the end of the game (literally final two seconds) that he made sure to hand off the ball to a teammate so that they would be in possession for the shot clock violation. He was way too "aware" that he would be associated with the turnover (shot clock violation is a team turnover not player).

But, the dude dropped 57 in a triple double, including a three to tie, and has led a team of modest talent to a playoff birth while averaging a triple double. Pretty amazin.
 
He is not a gunner, which makes this season so remarkable.



Despite his awesome assist numbers, he is for sure a gunner. Averages the most shots per game in the league by a wide margin.
 
This kid is ballin, and to believe he wasn't voted as a starter in the NBA All Star Game.

Harden, our own Kemba and of course Curry are doing their thing, but Westbrook has to be the best guard in the league right now.

38 triple doubles so far

Last night

57 points (record for a triple double)
13 rebounds
11 assists

He is not a gunner, which makes this season so remarkable. Of course he's doing all this against the best players in the world especially in the packed 'good guard' Western Conference.


I think he's the MVP but not a gunner?!??
 
.-.
My bad, limited NBA knowledge. Just thought that with the triple doubles it absolves him of that title.
He sort of hunts those assists sometimes, like Rondo did in his Boston heyday. Don't get me wrong, he's got great vision and makes great passes. But he racks up assists without making his teammates better like more classic point guards.
 
Odds in Vegas have harden most likely to win. Russ team isn't that great overall
 
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Odds in Vegas have harden most likely to win. Russ team isn't that great overall

I think the tide will turn and Westbrook will win it (I've been on Team Harden most of the year). The Thunder actually have a decent record now. They're going to win 45 and maybe close to 50. If they get to 48 (5-3 in last 8), he wins it. I don't know what the odds are, but that seems like a good bet now.
 
This kid is ballin, and to believe he wasn't voted as a starter in the NBA All Star Game.

Harden, our own Kemba and of course Curry are doing their thing, but Westbrook has to be the best guard in the league right now.

38 triple doubles so far

Last night

57 points (record for a triple double)
13 rebounds
11 assists

He is not a gunner, which makes this season so remarkable. Of course he's doing all this against the best players in the world especially in the packed 'good guard' Western Conference.


Isaiah Thomas has to be included in that list is well, in a normal year he'd be firmly in MVP conversations.
 
Despite his awesome assist numbers, he is for sure a gunner. Averages the most shots per game in the league by a wide margin.
Cowherd believes he has exposed that Westbrook is boosting his assist and rebounds stats for the sake of his triple doubles.

His assist rate falls off a cliff late in the game

He contests the fewest perimeter shots in the league
 
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Cowherd believes he has exposed that Westbrook is boosting his assist and rebounds stats for the sake of his triple doubles.

His assist rate falls off a cliff late in the game

He contests the fewest perimeter shots in the league
I wouldn't put it past Westbrook and the Thunder to be boosting his numbers.
Don't get be wrong, he's a phenomenal player.
But if he's really the Most Valuable Player, why are the Thunder only 6th in the West? They've got a really solid roster around him.
Take LeBron off the Cavs, they'd probably barely have a winning record.
 
I wouldn't put it past Westbrook and the Thunder to be boosting his numbers.
Don't get be wrong, he's a phenomenal player.
But if he's really the Most Valuable Player, why are the Thunder only 6th in the West? They've got a really solid roster around him.
Take LeBron off the Cavs, they'd probably barely have a winning record.
I think Cowherd said no MVP had ever come from a sub-50 win team, or a team that exited in the first or second round (as the Thunder likely will)

Or something like that
 
I think Cowherd said no MVP had ever come from a sub-50 win team, or a team that exited in the first or second round (as the Thunder likely will)

Or something like that

The last time a team won less than 50 games and had an MVP was Moses Malone in the 1981–82 season.

That's why Westbrook was getting written off when the Thunder were on pace for ~45. But if the Thunder get to 48-50, I think he gets it because there is no obvious "Best player on the best team" thing since LeBron's Cavs might not finish first and KD's play/injury plus Steph's off season mean there isn't a winner coming from Warriors. IT plays no D and Kawhi probably just doesn't quite have the numbers in comparison to the other 2 frontrunners. So that leaves Harden vs. RW. I think momentum builds for RW since his team won't be that far behind and he'll have had the historic season.
 
Westbrook is not the MVP, I don't even have him second. It's harden far and away, take a look at the team standings and the beard's statline.
 
Westbrook is not the MVP, I don't even have him second. It's harden far and away, take a look at the team standings and the beard's statline.

Okay, I'm bored. I'll bite. I see that his statline is worse (in RPM and PER aside from the triple double) than RW and that the Rockets aren't even 1st or 2nd in their own conference. What's the argument?
 
.-.
Okay, I'm bored. I'll bite. I see that his statline is worse (in RPM and PER aside from the triple double) than RW and that the Rockets aren't even 1st or 2nd in their own conference. What's the argument?
He has a higher ts% and more win shares, he has led the rockets to having the second best offense in the NBA. I don't buy westbrooks teammates being bad, he just doesn't make them better the same way harden does.
 
Westbrook is definitely a guy who hunts his stats. A lot of guys do, though. What he's doing is still amazing.

But Harden is the MVP. Even looking past the advanced stats, there is just a difference in a way those players are defended and in the way they contribute to efficient offense. Harden gets a lot of hockey assists. Russ isn't giving it up unless he thinks he's getting an assist out of it. Harden assists on a lot of three pointers. Russ less so, partially because the team around him isn't equipped to shoot as many threes but also because he's just not the pick and roll player Harden is. The Rockets are on pace to make the most threes in NBA history, IIRC, and it's all because of Harden. He's a magician with the basketball. No way I'd have Russ over LeBron either.
 
He has a higher ts% and more win shares, he has led the rockets to having the second best offense in the NBA. I don't buy westbrooks teammates being bad, he just doesn't make them better the same way harden does.

RW has an insane usage rate, literally the highest of all time. Which is to say, he's the biggest part of his team's offense of any player of all time. Due to skill/efficiency curves, your TS% will go down as a function of your usage going up. Consider Dean Oliver:
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RW is over 0.4. It's almost 0.42 (literally off the chart). His O-rating is still 112! Harden's is at 119 on only 34%. Impressive, but well within the realm of the others (literally on the Durant curve). RW's is on another planet in the context of the others having extreme dropoffs when approaching 0.35.

Individual players' win shares are biased towards strong teams because of the way it calculates marginal points. And it fails to take into account the skill curve and defense warping of someone at this extreme usage% when assigning credit, so rewards efficiency too linearly (ie RW gets less credit for his offense in win shares because he's somewhat inefficient without considering his gigantic usage% and the boost that has on his teammates who get to only take easier shots, and whom then receive higher proportion of team's win shares because they're now more efficient scorers, essentially punishing RW for benefiting his teammates).

As to your 2nd point, D'Antoni is well known for being a great offensive coach when he has the personnel who can make it work. Not to mention the heavy hand that Morey takes in ensuring his team's efficient shot selections. The Rockets also have like 5 guys who can hit 3's accurately.

Who can shoot on the Thunder? Just Oladipo at 38%, really. Roberson is a black hole in that regard. It's not a total surprise the Thunder have played better (same winning % as Rockets) since acquiring McDermott as another shooter off the bench. It's not that RW teammates are bad, but they mostly can't shoot nor create their own shots. Steven Adams is not that guy, and he's their 2nd best offensive player probably (with Dipo and Kanter). Donovan does them no favors either.

Harden assists on a lot of three pointers. Russ less so, partially because the team around him isn't equipped to shoot as many threes but also because he's just not the pick and roll player Harden is.
To me, it is LESS impressive if the guy is assisting on a lot of 3pt shots vs. otherwise (despite it being smarter basketball, Morey strikes again). By their nature, 3-pointers are often assisted. If your team is making a lot of 3s, you're just going to have more assists if you have the ball a lot. As you mentioned, if RW's teammates could shoot better, he'd have substantially more assists. This should not be an argument against Russ.
 
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Presti has not done RW any favors with that roster construction. Adams is a good PnR match but the 2 through 4 couldn't be a worse fit for his skillset. Imagine him with the snipers the Rockets have? He manages to get to the rim at will with a packed paint every night.

I'm loving Hardens season and am watching him right now. It's amazing how much I used to detest the aesthetics of his game and now the Rockets are a must watch. Dantoni and Morey deserve a ton of credit for putting him in the perfect system with the perfect role players. I can't forget how MD made Lin look like an All Star.

Screw the stats, I'd give the award to Kawhi. He is the best defender and 2 way player in the league. I also irrationally like him because of his demeanor. I can't believe how good he has become in Iso. But he's not going to win. I'm rooting for Russ. Why not?
 

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