OT: Rudy Gay a bad teammate?

[formerlurker]

I was reading an article about Shabazz Muhammad's draft stock plummeting and saw this:

"Shabazz spent just one year at UCLA before announcing that he's a year older than believed (20, not 19) and declaring for the draft. Now we're talking about him falling to the late teens because he's supposedly a bad teammate, a Rudy Gay type of player, overrated, a one-trick pony."

I don't follow Rudy's career that closely but know he was traded earlier this season. Is that the perception of him in the NBA and the main reason the Grizzlies moved him? Or is the reference to Rudy about being overrated and one-dimensional?

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/5/18/4342846/shabazz-muhammad-nba-draft-2013-harrison-barnes

 

[UCHuskies08]

I don't think there was a perception that he was a bad teammate, but definitely that his style of play didn't mesh with the Grizzlies, which I think is definitely fair.

 

[Brochacho]

I think that is in reference to his style of play rather than his character. He is pretty much a step above being a pure chucker.

 

[James]

The media gives him a bad rep, specifically analytic enthusiasts. He'll have to shut them up next season.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

It's got nothing to do with the media, its the way he plays. He's not a bad guy but the Grizz are unquestionably better without him. People don't want to believe that but it's true.

 

[Hi-Low]

Like Rudy as a person and he's a talented player, but I often cringed looking at the box scores of Memphis games...shot for a horrible percentage most nights. He needs to take better shots and get his teamates more invloved in the offense...might be a challenge in Toronto though.

 

[James]

The grizzlies are better without him sure I agree. that doesn't mean he's a 'one trick pony' or a 'bad teammate'. That's a narrative driven by the media.

 

[Hoophound]

Rudy has never been able to create. He just isn't an elite talent. He is one step below that. He's kind of like a Jerry Stackhouse level player.

 

[James]

What does that even mean he can't create? Stackhouse once averaged 30 a game on Detroit. rudy has been avg 18+ ppg and 6 boards since his second year on good efficiency not counting this year. he wasn't very good this year for whatever reason, perhaps being traded to a different country had something to do with it. Is the idea that rudy didn't fit in hollins system that crazy?

 

[Hoophound]

Stackhouse was a sub-superstar player, like Rudy. A great player that isn't a franchise player. Rudy has never been strong enough off the dribble or a good enough passer to be a superstar.

I am not saying Rudy and Jerry have anything in common, I am saying both are/were a notch below franchise players.

 

[James]

okay I'm not arguing he is a 'franchise player'. he hasn't even been an all star. none of that means he should be deemed a bad teammate or one dimensional because some gm overpaid him. he is what he is currently but I think his best basketball is ahead of him.

 

[whaler11]

He's not a bad teammate but he's like a Marbury - will fill a stat sheet on a bad team. If he's one of your two best players you are going nowhere.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

okay I'm not arguing he is a 'franchise player'. he hasn't even been an all star. none of that means he should be deemed a bad teammate or one dimensional because some gm overpaid him. he is what he is currently but I think his best basketball is ahead of him.

His shooting #s are atrocious. He's a ballstopper like Carmelo without Carmelo's skill. He just doesn't make teams better. Very nice kid though.

 

[huskyharry]

Rudy, by all reports is a good teammate and a good character guy.
His shooting has been inconsistent but he is a very talented player. When he is on with his shot, he has game changing ability, even against playoff caliber teams.his numbers for bocks and steals are good for his position but he does suffer a lack of concentration, particularly on defense.
I thought Prince was pretty much washed up but he has shown in the playoffs that he has a lot left in the tank. He is a much better all-around defender than Rudy. He has also been hitting his open shots and occasionally making runners plus passing the ball effectively.
But the most important reason why the Griz are better without Rudy is because the offense now concentrates on getting he ball to Zebo in a scoring position or Marc Gasol in the high post where he is a very effective player with an automatic shot and superior passing skills.

In the long run, Rudy still has the talent to become a perennial All-Star but he needs to put in the work, improve his effort on defense and improve his shot selection.

 

[UConn5]

Rudy has been a victim of the recent rise of analytics in the NBA. Unfortunately for him the stat heads not point out that according to their evaluation methods he is overpaid, they are actually offended by it. They react to the fact that he got a contract that is probably richer than what he deserved (I think he's pretty good but not a max player) in a way which makes it seem like he is bad for your team.

There is a difference between 1) a player's contract being a bad one for your team's salary cap situation; and 2) the player being a bad person to have on a team. I don't think that the stat guys adequately separate those two notions. I've never read a single thing that has said that Rudy has a bad attitude or that teammates don't like him. Maybe those things are true and maybe they have been written about and if I'm wrong about that then ok, but I think that description in the original post is BS.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I took the "bad teammate" thing to mean he doesn't make a team better, which is true. No one says he's a bad kid, but he's been a really disappointing pro. That's just the truth, it's got nothing to do with the "rise of analytics" or whatever. He'd be overpaid and underperforming 20 years ago too.

 

[champs99and04]

I took the "bad teammate" thing to mean he doesn't make a team better, which is true. No one says he's a bad kid, but he's been a really disappointing pro. That's just the truth, it's got nothing to do with the "rise of analytics" or whatever. He'd be overpaid and underperforming 20 years ago too.

I think your assessment is a bit harsh - he had a terrible year this season, but aside from that, he's been a good NBA player, even a borderline all-star in some years. From his sophomore year in the NBA until last season, he averaged 18 and 6 on 46/35/78 shooting splits, and keep in mind, he doesn't turn 27 until August. It's true he hurt the Grizzlies more than he helped, but I think you have to keep the context of the Grizzlies roster in mind - they were always better off playing through their big men rather than isolating Rudy on the wing. He tried to be an alphadog and failed, but there's no shame in that - only a handful of players in the NBA are capable of leading their team deep into the playoffs. There's a big difference between stating he was a bad player for the Grizzlies and stating he's a bad player in a vacuum. As is the case with most players, there are going to be situations they thrive in, and situations they struggle in - the key is eventually finding your home (I don't think Toronto is it, by the way, though he at least adds tangible value to their team).

You know who Rudy reminds me of? Richard Hamilton. Much like Rudy, Rip didn't get to the free throw line at a rate conducive to being an alphadog, he was a subpar defender, he was a bad three point shooter, and he spent most of his Washington days floundering as an inefficient player in need of finding his role (43% shooting, 15.2 PER). But once he arrived in Detroit, he immediately thrived as Billups' running mate in one of the most balanced offenses in recent NBA history, winning a title as the undisputed second option.

I think Rudy will eventually find his niche, too. It may not be for three, four, five years...but I think he'll find it. He has the athleticism to become at least a serviceable defender and he has the tools to become the second or third option on a contender. My guess is he'll be a "good player, bad team" guy for the next few years in Toronto and then he'll catch on somewhere.

 

[Ts5034]

I always felt that Rudy and Memphis were a bad fit. I was really hoping he would sign somewhere else back in summer 2010. Right now, Rudy is probably playing the best out of any of the UConn guys in the NBA. I think Kemba will take over that soon

 

[Waquoit]

I think that is in reference to his style of play rather than his character. He is pretty much a step above being a pure chucker.

No, he isn't. To use a line from another article, he's an "über-athletic wing with limited skills who becomes indistinguishable from about 50 other wing players in the NBA."

 

[James]

he was a final cut last year on the Olympic team. there aren't 50 wings who could even claim that. More like a handful

 

[Waquoit]

he was a final cut last year on the Olympic team. there aren't 50 wings who could even claim that. More like a handful

What if they had the team this year? Does he even get an invite?

 

[johnhuskies95]

It's pretty hard to say he's been a "disappointing pro" considering he was drafted 8th. It's not like he was a top 3 pick.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

It's pretty hard to say he's been a "disappointing pro" considering he was drafted 8th. It's not like he was a top 3 pick.

No, it's easy, watch: "He's been a disappointing pro." Ask around the league and I'd bet you'll hear that more than once. But since you're in the hair-splitting game, how about this: for a max money guy he's been a huge disappointment. Read the Grantland article from a month or so ago about how bad he's been and how much better Memphis is since the trade. You can get what he gives you from any number of guys for a fraction of the price. If he was a Kentucky guy people on here would think much, much differently about his career.

 

[James]

nobody was saying he was a dissapointment when he got the deal. its not like he's been making 15 mill since he entered the league. It was based on potential and he's still only 26 with a high cieling. Memphis made a great move because Rudy's role didn't match his $$$. Him being a spot up shooter with that contract made no sense. Doesn't mean he can't evolve with a different role (longer than 30 games).

 

[msgordon]

No, it's easy, watch: "He's been a disappointing pro." Ask around the league and I'd bet you'll hear that more than once. But since you're in the hair-splitting game, how about this: for a max money guy he's been a huge disappointment. Read the Grantland article from a month or so ago about how bad he's been and how much better Memphis is since the trade. You can get what he gives you from any number of guys for a fraction of the price. If he was a Kentucky guy people on here would think much, much differently about his career.

the post you are responding too said he hasnt been disappointing for an 8th pick. which is correct, and has nothing to do with his contract