OT: Odell to Cleveland

ConnHuskBask

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I think Eli's a nice guy, I appreciate the two SBs, and I've defended him when I think he's needed defending, but his feelings are pretty low down on my list of things I care about at this moment.
Sorry, let me clarify, I'm not despondent over a professional athletes feelings. I just appreciate his legacy here.

Better?
 
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Problem is the Giants don't agree with you. If they did they wouldn't have gave him the long term deal in the first place. Most of Beckham's craziness was pre-deal.

They didn't suddenly decide he was to much to handle, they were fine with it until they found out they had to rebuild.
Guys. Don’t be such goobers. This wasn’t Gettleman. This was ownership not being able to handle him. They paid him $90 mil and then Mara had to say “more playing less talking.”

Gettleman didn’t convince Mara to trade Odell. Mara Told Gettleman to trade Odell.

The entire narrative about Gettleman and not getting equal value or bad cap management assumes this is the GM making football decisions.

This was the ownership sick of the player saying he would rather not have this guy on his team anymore.

So, I don’t care what Deangelo Williams or Josh Norman day about Gettleman. This wasn’t his decision.

The maras have always, ALWAYS, been involved in things like this.

It boggles my mind to see smart people in the media try and take a football take on this position.
 

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Ugh...


Seth WalderESPN Analytics
Quite the stat from ESPN Stats & Info and NFL Next Gen Stats: the Giants' two longest passing touchdowns last season in terms of air distance were both thrown by Odell Beckham Jr. - Week 13 vs Bears: 48.9 yards on a 49-yard TD to Russell Shepard - Week 5 at Panthers: 45.0 yards on a 57-yard TD to Saquon Barkley
 
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Impossible to deal with, per who? The out of touch owner, media, or the GM/HC who have accomplished what exactly? By all accounts he was well liked in the locker room - that's what should really count.

I think OBJ is nuts, but he's a generational talent. To me that's worth dealing with some "media" distractions for the on field play.
Lol. The owner pays his salary.
 
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Guys. Don’t be such goobers. This wasn’t Gettleman. This was ownership not being able to handle him. They paid him $90 mil and then Mara had to say “more playing less talking.”

Gettleman didn’t convince Mara to trade Odell. Mara Told Gettleman to trade Odell.

The entire narrative about Gettleman and not getting equal value or bad cap management assumes this is the GM making football decisions.

This was the ownership sick of the player saying he would rather not have this guy on his team anymore.

So, I don’t care what Deangelo Williams or Josh Norman day about Gettleman. This wasn’t his decision.

The maras have always, ALWAYS, been involved in things like this.

It boggles my mind to see smart people in the media try and take a football take on this position.
Mara/Gettleman same page Tisch/Shurmur disagreed. Gettleman brought this to management and won. You can disagree all you want but I’m believing the people in the know unless of course your source is better? And many questioned the hiring of Gettleman because of his history so this isn’t something new many thought the Giants could’ve done a ton better. Now we know that’s true.
 
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Guys. Don’t be such goobers. This wasn’t Gettleman. This was ownership not being able to handle him. They paid him $90 mil and then Mara had to say “more playing less talking.”

Gettleman didn’t convince Mara to trade Odell. Mara Told Gettleman to trade Odell.

The entire narrative about Gettleman and not getting equal value or bad cap management assumes this is the GM making football decisions.

This was the ownership sick of the player saying he would rather not have this guy on his team anymore.

So, I don’t care what Deangelo Williams or Josh Norman day about Gettleman. This wasn’t his decision.

The maras have always, ALWAYS, been involved in things like this.

It boggles my mind to see smart people in the media try and take a football take on this position.
How many star players does Gettleman have to drive away as a GM before he stops getting a pass? We're at at least 4 already, does he need to get to 5?
 

intlzncster

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Guys. Don’t be such goobers. This wasn’t Gettleman. This was ownership not being able to handle him. They paid him $90 mil and then Mara had to say “more playing less talking.”

Gettleman didn’t convince Mara to trade Odell. Mara Told Gettleman to trade Odell.

The entire narrative about Gettleman and not getting equal value or bad cap management assumes this is the GM making football decisions.

This was the ownership sick of the player saying he would rather not have this guy on his team anymore.

So, I don’t care what Deangelo Williams or Josh Norman day about Gettleman. This wasn’t his decision.

The maras have always, ALWAYS, been involved in things like this.

It boggles my mind to see smart people in the media try and take a football take on this position.
If this is the case, the Giants are more screwed than I thought. An owner messing in personnel decision in professional sports, especially in today's NFL, is a recipe for perennial failure. Exhibit A: the redskins will forever blow until Dan Snider sells, or learns that lesson.

Job as an owner is to put professional football people in place to make all decisions. Sell/promote the team, sign the checks, build stadiums and that's it.
 

the Q

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If this is the case, the Giants are more screwed than I thought. An owner messing in personnel decision in professional sports, especially in today's NFL, is a recipe for perennial failure. Exhibit A: the redskins will forever blow until Dan Snider sells, or learns that lesson.

Job as an owner is to put professional football people in place to make all decisions. Sell/promote the team, sign the checks, build stadiums and that's it.
It’s a lot more common than you think. At least according to Danny Ainge and Brian Cashman
 

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It’s a lot more common than you think. At least according to Danny Ainge and Brian Cashman
The idea that owners dont touch stuff is unrealistic. I think there are far more owners that get involved in some meaningful level on the big and little pieces of personnel decisions than we are ever clued into. You want to like your own star players and you would prefer they actually liked you too.
 
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If this is the case, the Giants are more screwed than I thought. An owner messing in personnel decision in professional sports, especially in today's NFL, is a recipe for perennial failure. Exhibit A: the redskins will forever blow until Dan Snider sells, or learns that lesson.

Job as an owner is to put professional football people in place to make all decisions. Sell/promote the team, sign the checks, build stadiums and that's it.
I get that’s what people think, but no ceo is ever going to act like that. Owners are always involved. And as far as Giants, the Mara’s know football and only started the giants in the 1920s.

Think about how crazy this situation is. After 95 years of football, people are taking the side of a wide receiver over the owner.
 

intlzncster

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The idea that owners dont touch stuff is unrealistic. I think there are far more owners that get involved in some meaningful level on the big and little pieces of personnel decisions than we are ever clued into. You want to like your own star players and you would prefer they actually liked you too.
It's a weird strategy when you think about it. You're basically trusting your own sports knowledge over guys who you pay millions to because of their expertise.

Owners know as much or less about the game than many on this board. They're great at making money, and that gives you a false sense of confidence on making decisions.

The best owners are generally hands off. If your owner is instructing who to draft, you're dead.


I get that’s what people think, but no ceo is ever going to act like that. Owners are always involved. And as far as Giants, the Mara’s know football and only started the giants in the 1920s.

Think about how crazy this situation is. After 95 years of football, people are taking the side of a wide receiver over the owner.
CEOs know a lot about business. And they are running a business. An NFL team is a business as well, but it's totally different. The owner can obviously make money making decisions and what not, but if he is making on the field calls (whether who to play, play calling, drafting, personnel whatever), he's meddling completely outside his expertise.

CEOs are generally put in place because of their skills. Owners buy an established business, that deals in a very specific product, and take the reigns.

It's like a really rich kid who buys and engineering firm and then starts to tell people how to design their product. Maybe it'll work, but the odds say no.
 
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It's a weird strategy when you think about it. You're basically trusting your own sports knowledge over guys who you pay millions to because of their expertise.

Owners know as much or less about the game than many on this board. They're great at making money, and that gives you a false sense of confidence on making decisions.

The best owners are generally hands off. If your owner is instructing who to draft, you're dead.




CEOs know a lot about business. And they are running a business. An NFL team is a business as well, but it's totally different. The owner can obviously make money making decisions and what not, but if he is making on the field calls (whether who to play, play calling, drafting, personnel whatever), he's meddling completely outside his expertise.

CEOs are generally put in place because of their skills. Owners buy an established business, that deals in a very specific product, and take the reigns.

It's like a really rich kid who buys and engineering firm and then starts to tell people how to design their product. Maybe it'll work, but the odds say no.
And then factor in that the Giants actually have two owners and it's probably that much more complicated.
 
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Mara/Gettleman same page Tisch/Shurmur disagreed. Gettleman brought this to management and won. You can disagree all you want but I’m believing the people in the know unless of course your source is better? And many questioned the hiring of Gettleman because of his history so this isn’t something new many thought the Giants could’ve done a ton better. Now we know that’s true.
I don’t have sources. I am just being a message board savage. But, tell me who wrote that and I will tell you if it is Stop or not. When it was written is an issue too.

Obviously, we all know Tisch family likes the marketing of Odell etc. it’s the Mara’s that are the football people.

Odell is legitimately great. I love the talent. Hard to give that up. But old Giants fans like me have seen them win 4 Super Bowls and plenty of playoff appearances.

People act like Odell was their best talent. I think Barkley is best talent, and best back I saw in college since Barry Sanders. So, that might be just me jumping on the bandwagon.

They had LT and Strahan and plaxico and a young Eli. They have had plenty of superstars.

They will have stars again. Beckham is 5 years left in his career at this level. I think the giants will survive.

Get a QB, a pass rusher and I would like an OT that starts at RT and moves to LT when we cut Solder.
 
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It's a weird strategy when you think about it. You're basically trusting your own sports knowledge over guys who you pay millions to because of their expertise.

Owners know as much or less about the game than many on this board. They're great at making money, and that gives you a false sense of confidence on making decisions.

The best owners are generally hands off. If your owner is instructing who to draft, you're dead.




CEOs know a lot about business. And they are running a business. An NFL team is a business as well, but it's totally different. The owner can obviously make money making decisions and what not, but if he is making on the field calls (whether who to play, play calling, drafting, personnel whatever), he's meddling completely outside his expertise.

CEOs are generally put in place because of their skills. Owners buy an established business, that deals in a very specific product, and take the reigns.

It's like a really rich kid who buys and engineering firm and then starts to tell people how to design their product. Maybe it'll work, but the odds say no.
Football isn’t rocket science. I will go to bat with anyone who thinks it is.

Maras are deeply involved in player scouting. Chris Mara is one of their top scouts.

It really isn’t that hard to figure out, learn, watch film. Soap Box: The biggest mirage going to today in college Athletics is the god status of football coaches.

Give me a break. Stop punting on fourth and 1 from the 50. Lol.
 

intlzncster

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Football isn’t rocket science. I will go to bat with anyone who thinks it is.
Maras are deeply involved in player scouting. Chris Mara is one of their top scouts.
It really isn’t that hard to figure out, learn, watch film. Soap Box: The biggest mirage going to today in college Athletics is the god status of football coaches.
Give me a break. Stop punting on fourth and 1 from the 50. Lol.
Then why bother paying all these people if it's so easy?

Fact is, some guys are better at it than others, and that edge is what it takes to win in the NFL, because the margins are so small.

So your job, as an owner, is to hire the best guy--a guy who's better than you--and let them do their thing.

It's a really weird take to justify owners making personnel decisions ESPECIALLY in the the salary cap era. Figuring out how to manage the cap going forward, while replenishing/stocking piling talent, picks etc, is a science in and of itself.
 
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Can’t believe they are going to pay Eli his roster bonus. They need to release him and take the cap hit this year. Win 2 games and draft Tua or Fromm.
 

nomar

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Sorry, let me clarify, I'm not despondent over a professional athletes feelings. I just appreciate his legacy here.

Better?
I wasn't suggesting you were being melodramatic. I *am* despondent -- over the direction this team has gone in. I'm 10000000x more bummed out about the state of the program than I an concerned about the most overpaid player in the NFL.
 

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Then why bother paying all these people if it's so easy?

Fact is, some guys are better at it than others, and that edge is what it takes to win in the NFL, because the margins are so small.

So your job, as an owner, is to hire the best guy--a guy who's better than you--and let them do their thing.

It's a really weird take to justify owners making personnel decisions ESPECIALLY in the the salary cap era. Figuring out how to manage the cap going forward, while replenishing/stocking piling talent, picks etc, is a science in and of itself.
Don’t be so black and white on this issue. Lots of owners meddle lightly on personnel. Little here and there....especially in football.
 
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Don’t be so black and white on this issue. Lots of owners meddle lightly on personnel. Little here and there....especially in football.
Lots of owners will weigh in on personnel decisions, but 90% of successful franchises don't have owners making the personnel decisions. If I'm Gettleman and he walks in and tells me to trade OBJ I'm telling him to take a walk and step back
 

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Lots of owners will weigh in on personnel decisions, but 90% of successful franchises don't have owners making the personnel decisions. If I'm Gettleman and he walks in and tells me to trade OBJ I'm telling him to take a walk and step back
And then you are fired. Guys, this world is far more nuisanced.
 

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