OT: Life Flight Scandals

[RockyMTblue2]

A license to steal. Last month my wife was helicopter airlifted in a 40 minute trip with a paramedic, pilot and chopper. Charge: over $40,000. Luckily her insurance met the cost, but many are not so lucky.

For example: Lifesaving Flights Can Come With Life-Changing Bills

Of course these flights are life saving and necessary, but the "cost" is simply a huge rip off with no one watching the store.

 

[LasVegasYank]

Most distressing is the lack of training provided to first responders in districts covered by "air ambulances." Many times, I've read that injured persons transported this way were released from the hospital that day or next, indicating that their injuries were not serious or life-threatening. There have been many cases where the crews of these helicopters were killed in transit to the scene of an accident. One right here I my area resulted in the death of both pilots and the nurse and doctor medical team onboard.

I fear that this system is being gamed due to the "use it or lose it" crowd ruing the show.

The system is very expensive utilizing a multi-million dollar helicopter, which costs big money to maintain and operate, with hundreds of thousands of dollars in equipment and a crew which can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars in salaries and benefits, not to mention the costs of modifying physical plant with a landing pad and area warning devices.

I feel for the people who get charged those enormous amounts of money. Some of the charges, of course, are padded in the same way as $40.00 boxes of Kleenex and $5,00 Q tips you see on hospital bills.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Most distressing is the lack of training provided to first responders in districts covered by "air ambulances." Many times, I've read that injured persons transported this way were released from the hospital that day or next, indicating that their injuries were not serious or life-threatening. There have been many cases where the crews of these helicopters were killed in transit to the scene of an accident. One right here I my area resulted in the death of both pilots and the nurse and doctor medical team onboard.

I fear that this system is being gamed due to the "use it or lose it" crowd ruing the show.

The system is very expensive utilizing a multi-million dollar helicopter, which costs big money to maintain and operate, with hundreds of thousands of dollars in equipment and a crew which can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars in salaries and benefits, not to mention the costs of modifying physical plant with a landing pad and area warning devices.

I feel for the people who get charged those enormous amounts of money. Some of the charges, of course, are padded in the same way as $40.00 boxes of Kleenex and $5,00 Q tips you see on hospital bills.

Don't forget the $20 aspirin.

 

[Bigboote]

I fear that this system is being gamed due to the "use it or lose it" crowd ruing the show.

On my way to work several years ago I saw someone airlifted from an auto accident. This was literally two miles from a big ER; it was about 6:30 AM, so very little traffic. I kind of lost all respect for medevac flights at that point, at least in urban areas.

 

[MainefanSC]

I have read more than a few newspaper articles, where accident victims were airlifted with out life threatening injuries. It begs the question......who makes the decision to call for life flight assist? I knew these assists must be very expensive, but not to the extent of $40K!!!!!! I doubt Medicare would cover their 80%.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I have read more than a few newspaper articles, where accident victims were airlifted with out life threatening injuries. It begs the question.who makes the decision to call for life flight assist? I knew these assists must be very expensive, but not to the extent of $40K!!!!!! I doubt Medicare would cover their 80%.

Just FYI in my wife's case the 911 operator activated the Helo unit and told it to fly without any request from us and it was the right call I'm sure. She crashed 9 more times in the hospital and had a pacemaker implanted 9 hours after the flight. I would suggest that the unnecessary flights have everything to do with medical questions of judgment and nothing to do with the person lying on the gurney. That person doesn't get a vote. The problem is critical review of true cost and a fair profit.

 

[LasVegasYank]

<<Don't forget the $20 aspirin.>>

You're giving me a headache.

 

[LasVegasYank]

I have read more than a few newspaper articles, where accident victims were airlifted with out life threatening injuries. It begs the question.who makes the decision to call for life flight assist? I knew these assists must be very expensive, but not to the extent of $40K!!!!!! I doubt Medicare would cover their 80%.

It's the first responders, probably paramedics, who should know better than to call for a minor injury. If they're doing so, I smell CYA and lawyers.

As to Medicare (or any insurance, for that matter), they pay far less than what's charged for services rendered.

 

[Ozimoto]

Here in Maryland, the Maryland State Police operate the air medical evacuation transport fleet. We have strict protocols in place as to when to fly a patient based on severity of injury, distance to receiving facility, weather, and time of day. We rarely fly anyone in central Maryland any more unless the distance to the receiving facility (in our case the University of Maryland Hospital Shock Trauma Center or the Johns Hopkins Pediatric Trauma Center, both in Baltimore) is more than 15 to 20 miles or there is a gridlocked traffic situation. MSP has had several serious accidents with fatalities over the years when they operated in a more aggressive transport mode.

In the more rural parts of the state, Western Maryland and the Eastern Shore, flights are more prevalent, and justified as the distances to major trauma centers are often in the range of 75 to 100 miles.

Several private companies also fly here, but they perform strictly facility to facility transport flights. They have tried to get involved in the air evac role, but the state has not allowed them to operate in that capacity for some of the reasons that have been mentioned here.

Even with the state police providing the service, the flights still are costly. $40,000 is about the going rate from what I know of the system.

 

[CL82]

The story from the article.

There were close to 3,000 air ambulance flights in Montana in 2014, and Amy Thomson was on one of them, curled up among the medical bags in the back of the fixed-wing plane. Her 2-month-old daughter, Isla, had a failing heart, and the hospital that could help her was 600 miles away.

That seems a reasonable use to me.

Though the family was initially billed $56,000...

Thomson ended up not having to pay for her flight, but only after repeated appeals. According to Thomson, on the same day they were arranging a time to meet with a lawyer, she was notified by her insurance company that it would pay an additional amount of about $30,000, as well as the $13,000 out-of-network fee to the air ambulance company. The air ambulance firm waived the rest of its fee.

I know here in NJ it is tough to get Medevac'd. I once was coaching a soccer game where the opposing goalie dove for a loose ball just as one of our guys kicked it. The foot the ball and goalie's head all came together for horrific impact. The goalie started with numbness in his feet which became loss of motion and which then spread up his legs to his torso and arms. Finally he couldn't move at all. For a lot reasons the first responders took forever to get there, or at least what felt like forever, it probably was 25 minutes, give or take.

I asked for Medevac but it can only be requested by a first responder (EMT or police). I thought I was watching this poor kid die. We kept him talking and he was pretty cool laughing and joking in an ever softening voice. Probably one of the scariest things I've been a part of. He ended up being transported by ambulance. He had fractured some vertebrae and his discs had swollen up pinching his spinal column, that was what caused the numbness and loss of motion. After a few days in the hospital the swelling faded and he was largely okay. He made a full recovery.

So in the end, dispatch was right in not sending the helicopter, but may that was a terrifying 45 minutes to an hour.

 

[Bama fan]

A license to steal. Last month my wife was helicopter airlifted in a 40 minute trip with a paramedic, pilot and chopper. Charge: over $40,000. Luckily her insurance met the cost, but many are not so lucky.

For example: Lifesaving Flights Can Come With Life-Changing Bills

Of course these flights are life saving and necessary, but the "cost" is simply a huge rip off with no one watching the store.

I hope your wife is ok. Everything in the medical realm is too costly and lacking in clarity or transparency. Our system is haphazard, wasteful, and out of control. But I would bet the insurance did not pay the full amount. Heaven help those without it.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

The story from the article.

There were close to 3,000 air ambulance flights in Montana in 2014, and Amy Thomson was on one of them, curled up among the medical bags in the back of the fixed-wing plane. Her 2-month-old daughter, Isla, had a failing heart, and the hospital that could help her was 600 miles away.

That seems a reasonable use to me.

Though the family was initially billed $56,000...

Thomson ended up not having to pay for her flight, but only after repeated appeals. According to Thomson, on the same day they were arranging a time to meet with a lawyer, she was notified by her insurance company that it would pay an additional amount of about $30,000, as well as the $13,000 out-of-network fee to the air ambulance company. The air ambulance firm waived the rest of its fee.

I know here in NJ it is tough to get Medevac'd. I once was coaching a soccer game where the opposing goalie dove for a loose ball just as one of our guys kicked it. The foot the ball and goalie's head all came together for horrific impact. The goalie started with numbness in his feet which became loss of motion and which then spread up his legs to his torso and arms. Finally he couldn't move at all. For a lot reasons the first responders took forever to get there, or at least what felt like forever, it probably was 25 minutes, give or take.

I asked for Medevac but it can only be requested by a first responder (EMT or police). I thought I was watching this poor kid die. We kept him talking and he was pretty cool laughing and joking in an ever softening voice. Probably one of the scariest things I've been a part of. He ended up being transported by ambulance. He had fractured some vertebrae and his discs had swollen up pinching his spinal column, that was what caused the numbness and loss of motion. After a few days in the hospital the swelling faded and he was largely okay. He made a full recovery.

So in the end, dispatch was right in not sending the helicopter, but may that was a terrifying 45 minutes to an hour.

Here in the West Life Flites are much more common with even some regional center hospitals being ill equiped to handle some kinds of illness and trauma. Choppers fly out of Bozeman frequently heading to Seattle or Mayo in Minn or Denver. Glad to hear the kid did well; must have been traumatic for all.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I hope your wife is ok. Everything in the medical realm is too costly and lacking in clarity or transparency. Our system is haphazard, wasteful, and out of control. But I would bet the insurance did not pay the full amount. Heaven help those without it.

I hope no one misunderstands me; the chopper was imperative and the EMT (ex-military) was impressive, but I was thinking $4-5000, not 10X that. It would be remiss of me to not also thank the 911 operator who independently assessed the situation and had the chopper on the way before we reached the Ambulance station (where a local cop raised in my little MT town of Manhattan and driver and 2 EMTs mobilized in under 5 minutes!). All this on July 4th.

 

[MainefanSC]

I hope no one misunderstands me; the chopper was imperative and the EMT (ex-military) was impressive, but I was thinking $4-5000, not 10X that. It would be remiss of me to not also thank the 911 operator who independently assessed the situation and had the chopper on the way before we reached the Ambulance station (where a local cop raised in my little MT town of Manhattan and driver and 2 EMTs mobilized in under 5 minutes!). All this on July 4th.

Needless to say, this is the scenario for life flight mobilization. Thank God your wife is well and the ins paid. This is also where we thank and are eternally grateful for all first responders. They save countless lives and are for the most part, not properly recognized. I understand that they do what they do because they love it and not for the recognition. But, I do respect and thank them.

 

[vtcwbuff]

A license to steal. Last month my wife was helicopter airlifted in a 40 minute trip with a paramedic, pilot and chopper. Charge: over $40,000. Luckily her insurance met the cost, but many are not so lucky.

For example: Lifesaving Flights Can Come With Life-Changing Bills

Of course these flights are life saving and necessary, but the "cost" is simply a huge rip off with no one watching the store.

RMB - I found this when I googled Lifestar cost -
The cost of an air ambulance bill is split into two main parts, according to a study completed by the Montana Legislature. First, a liftoff fee, which ranges from $8,500 to $15,200 in Montana, plus a per-mile charge for the flight, which ranges from $26 to $133 a mile.Jan 18, 2016

Despite 4oK being a large chunk of money, I'm not sure it's a huge rip off. For instance Hartford Hospital operates 2 Lifestar helicopters, a BC-117 and an EC -145. I checked some on line helicopter prices. The older is a BC-117 that sells used for about $2.2 mil and their newer EC-145 costs $4.4 mil. So the investment in equipment is pretty big. Add to that whatever the expense of maintenance, docking, insurance etc. Then you need to look at crew. I don't know how Lifestar crew support works, is there only one crew per helicopter (even though they are available 24/7) or are there several crews? I do know that there are 5 crew members (pilot/mech/comm/flight nurse/respiratory therapist) on board. I suspect that they are well paid and deservedly so.

Another factor is usage. Fewer flights probably mean higher cost and that is possibly the case in MT. That's assuming the hospital has some sort of business plan (other than "mo' money) for the service. The Hartford hospital web site says that they transport around 1000 patients annually. In 2012 it had an operating budget of $7 mil that was partially (20%) subsidized by the state. Even with the subsidy the program operates well into the red - at least in 2012.