OT: Extraordinary article on ESPN/Grantland by . . .

[Kibitzer]

. . .Bill Simmons, a gifted writer (and Bostonian) about the unveiling of the statue of Bill Russell tomorrow, then he pays tribute to Big Papi and the bearded champion Red Sox.

Bill S. captures the essence of Russ and sensitively reviews the long and painful mutual resentment that characterized the relationship between Russ and Boston. Now perhaps -- finally! -- laid to rest with the statue that manifests the belated but heartfelt appreciation by this city for his greatness as a player and a person.

Simmons reviews the just-completed baseball season, with special emphasis on the leadership of Ortiz. Finally, he allows for the induction of Big Papi into that almost sacred gallery of Boston's most iconic athletes: Orr, Williams, Bird and Russ (but not Brady, not Yaz, not any others).

Recommended reading even for fans of teams from other places. I hope some kind soul will please provide a link (a task that eludes me).

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9908161/this-our-papi

 

[meyers7]

Simmons is a very good writer. Nice job on this one.

Never like Russell, and this article sure didn't help. Easy to see why he isn't in Boston's "inner circle".

 

[UcMiami]

Nice article and thanks for posting.
Boston is a very different city than it was in the 60s as is the whole country. In that era Boston stood out in the NE for having really bad race relations and Russell being the superstar of the city and black had a much tougher time than he should have. Add in breaking new ground as the black coach of the Celtics and all the crap that came with that ... Not surprising he isn't that enamored of Boston fans. His record of accomplishments compared to any other Boston sporting hero is so untouchable.

 

[Kibitzer]

Simmons is a very good writer. Nice job on this one.

Never like Russell, and this article sure didn't help. Easy to see why he isn't in Boston's "inner circle".

Amazing reactions. I admire Russ more than any other professional athlete and the excellent article by Simmons reinforced my positive feelings.

So we'll agree on the quality of Simmons's writing. And he did put Russ in Boston's most innermost circle, along with Bobby Orr, Ted Williams and Larry Bird. Then he added Big Papi.

 

[alexrgct]

Simmons, a Boston homer, is still basking in eight Boston championships in the last 12 years (three Pats, three Sawx, one Cs, one Bs). That really is a pretty amazing run for that area. What cities are similar? Maybe LA in the 80s? Five Lakers, one Raiders, two Dodgers? If the Angels hadn't blown a save against the Sox in 1986 that would have sent them to face the Mets (a blown save that led to a tragic almost-murder-suicide by reliever Donnie Moore eventually), it might have been nine championships.

 

[meyers7]

So we'll agree on the quality of Simmons's writing.

One of his best (or at least a favorite of mine) was an article he did on his trip to Azteca to see a US vs Mexico match (soccer) a few years back.

And he did put Russ in Boston's most innermost circle, along with Bobby Orr, Ted Williams and Larry Bird.

He may have, but Boston has not.

 

[Waquoit]

He may have, but Boston has not.

Speak for yourself.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

Russell was a great ballplayer, and, IMO, a person of substantial substance. I have always admired his honesty, and I have often wondered what it was like to walk in his shoes.

 

[meyers7]

Speak for yourself.

Just stating the facts.

And I'm not from Boston, so it wouldn't be my call anyway. And I'm talking about the fans. Bill said so himself. Russell is not talked about the same as Bird, Williams, Orr or even Ortiz.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

Well, it is true that Russell was always a "smarty pants' and this annoyed some, if not many. I like "smarty pants" people.

 

[Icebear]

Just stating the facts.

And I'm not from Boston, so it wouldn't be my call anyway. And I'm talking about the fans. Bill said so himself. Russell is not talked about the same as Bird, Williams, Orr or even Ortiz.

I don't know about that, meyers. I think those who bypass Russell are the typical 60s urban blue color racists who are increasingly rare. Among my circle of friends Russell was tremendously celebrated. Kib certainly remembers him with that same fondness. I think Bill confuses at times the worst of the past (and there was plenty that was terrible among the races in Boston at the time) with the status of the present. It isn't true anymore but neither is the journey complete.

He is one of my table of ten for the meal of a lifetime.

 

[meyers7]

I don't know about that, meyers. I think those who bypass Russell are the typical 60s urban blue color racists who are increasingly rare. Among my circle of friends Russell was tremendously celebrated. Kib certainly remembers him with that same fondness. I think Bill confuses at times the worst of the past (and there was plenty that was terrible among the races in Boston at the time) with the status of the present. It isn't true anymore but neither is the journey complete.

But I doubt the new, enlightened Bostonians, the ones who worship Big Papi, really remember Russell.

He is one of my table of eight for the meal of a lifetime.

I don't believe you were from Boston were you? I thought you were a Nutmegger??

 

[Icebear]

But I doubt the new, enlightened Bostonians, the ones who worship Big Papi, really remember Russell. Probably true.


I don't believe you were from Boston were you? I thought you were a Nutmegger??

Yes, I'm from Branford but have always held Russell with great respect.

Also, around my mythical table Bill Russell, Martin Luther, Margaret Mead, Soren Kierkegaard, Maya Moore, Leonardo DiVinci, Mary Magdlene, Stephen Jay Gould, Richard Feynman. Lot's of opinionated passionate folks.

 

[grizz36]

But I doubt the new, enlightened Bostonians, the ones who worship Big Papi, really remember Russell.


I don't believe you were from Boston were you? I thought you were a Nutmegger??

Meyer, Bill Russell is a very thoughtful and sensitive man. You don't have to be a Bostonian to admire those qualities. What upsets some people is that he has always worn those emotions on his sleeve.

I recall an incident Russell recalled when being interviewed by Michael Kay on "Center Stage". As a USF student Russell was walking across the campus when he was stopped by a white student. The white student said that he didn't know what to call Russell but he decided on "Snowball". Kay asked Russell what his reply was a bitter grin and a "... when he picked himself up off the ground ... "

Bill Russell never has settled for stupidity of any kind.

 

[meyers7]

Meyer, Bill Russell is a very thoughtful and sensitive man.

He doesn't come across that way to me.

You don't have to be a Bostonian to admire those qualities.

No, but we (or I) was talking about Simmons article. Which was pretty specific to Boston area fans. Papi's "This is our &%#ing city", doesn't really apply to Nutmeggers, or W. Massers, or Mapleheads, etc.

 

[pinotbear]

One of his best (or at least a favorite of mine) was an article he did on his trip to Azteca to see a US vs Mexico match (soccer) a few years back.


He may have, but Boston has not.

I think the times, they are a-changin', Meyers. I lived in southeast CT for 27 years (reading the Boston Globe regularly) , and have lived west of Boston for the last two. Russell was a "lightning rod" of a sporting public figure. For all the reasons already mentioned, he did not "fit the mold", and he refused to do so.

But, Boston is not the same place as it was when he arrived, anymore than the country is the same. I dare say, Mr. Russell isn't the same, either. Boston prizes many things that Bill Russell exemplifies. Boston prizes winning. Boston prizes independence. Boston prizes "speaking your mind". Boston, with all it's universities, prizes intelligence and education. I do believe that skin color had everything to do with the disconnect between the man and the city, and, in this day and age, that doesn't matter as much as it did in the 50's and 60's.

In terms of behavior, there are a lot of similarities between Williams, Bird, and Russell. All were independent, all were plain speaking - all were smart, tho' Ted may have overplayed his hand on occasion, and Larry almost always underplayed his. All had "moments" with the local media and press. All were winners to some degree, but no one more so than Russell. The one aspect that made Russell truly an outlier was skin color.

I believe that Boston has come to embrace Bill Russell, and that Bill Russell has come to, if not embrace Boston, certainly give it a cordial smile and a handshake.

 

[Kibitzer]

There are winners, and then there is Russ. Incomparable.

 

[Zorro]

Yes, I'm from Branford but have always held Russell with great respect.

Also, around my mythical table Bill Russell, Martin Luther, Margaret Mead, Soren Kierkegaard, Maya Moore, Leonardo DiVinci, Mary Magdlene, Stephen Jay Gould, Richard Feynman. Lot's of opinionated passionate folks.

De gustibus no disputandum est, but Gould (unintentionally but because he just could not either let go of his "punctuated equilibrium" theory, or consistently and cogently explain just what he meant by it), he did more to promote creationism and "intelligent design" than probably anyone else. Are you sure you would not like to replace him at the table with Darwin?

 

[Icebear]

De gustibus no disputandum est, but Gould (unintentionally but because he just could not either let go of his "punctuated equilibrium" theory, or consistently and cogently explain just what he meant by it, he did more to promote creationism and "intelligent design" than probably anyone else. Are you sure you would not like to replace him at the table with Darwin?

Gould is vastly superior to Darwin and Dawkins as he was a Sox fan. Dawkins criticisms of Gould and labeling him a creationist/intelligent design which Gould roundly denied are marred by Dawkins own blindness. If I had to substitute for Gould it would be Kenneth Miller of Brown.

 

[meyers7]

Yes, I'm from Branford but have always held Russell with great respect.

Also, around my mythical table Bill Russell, Martin Luther, Margaret Mead, Soren Kierkegaard, Maya Moore, Leonardo DiVinci, Mary Magdlene, Stephen Jay Gould, Richard Feynman. Lot's of opinionated passionate folks.

But what are you serving?

 

[Icebear]

Humble pie.

 

[Kibitzer]

Relying heavily on the article by Bill Simmons, which I consider to be a thoughtful and accurate review of the Boston sports environment, consider theseconditions:

​

The Boston community resented Russ in the '60's, even as he rang up an unparalleled series of championships (11 in 13 years).​

​

The current Boston community embraced Big Papi when he took the microphone and claimed that "This is our city!"​

That's a helluva contrast. In Russell's day, had some big black guy from the Dominican Republic ever done what Ortiz did, all hell would have broken loose.

 

[psconn]

"He may have, but Boston has not."

I would't be so sure of that. Just this morning a theoretical Mt Rushmore of Boston sports was being discussed on EEI. Russell, Bird, Orr, Williams, Brady were the top guys and most of the argueing was who do you drop to get to 4? Russell is a legend, and as awful as he may have been treated back then, it is a different story now.

 

[ed4ourgirls]

Russell was a great ballplayer . . . and I have often wondered what it was like to walk in his shoes.

I'm guessing that you would have plenty of toe room.