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Message: [QUOTE="Towney007, post: 2957229, member: 5832"] Woof - Ali the fastest heavyweight ever? I dunno if he was the fastest heavyweight of his time period. Ezzard Charles and Patterson were A LOT faster and if we want to break into the 'level of talent relative to the talent of the time' territory, you could probably argue Corbett and Tommy Burns too. I'd also argue Tyson was faster. I completely disagree. Tyson was much faster and much stronger. Ali's undeniably a great fighter - and if we're all being truthful - we didn't even get to see him at his absolute zenith because of the Vietnam stuff so we're into total fantasy land here - but he's just not physically in that zip code. Tyson ended 41% of his fights within three minutes and it wasn't just his power, it was the speed in which he was able to reel off multiple power shots - hooks and uppercuts. Tyson has always said - and every trainer he had always said - they prioritized his hand speed over his power. Ali was good at creating distance and space with his footwork. But it failed him a ton of times and he always struggled badly with pressure fighters. Oscar Bonavena, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Ernie Shavers, Ken Norton - basically anyone who pressured him had a measure of success. Tyson fought from a traditional stance so he didn’t waste nearly as much motion as Ali. When he avoided a punch he did so with quick snaps and bursts. Ali was all bout mid-drift dexterity, leans and foot shuffles... and worse - trips to the corner to let guys hammer on his arms. To be honest - Ali's defense kind of sucked to the point where it was an ongoing joke. Like he was really theaterical and entertaining - and if we're talking about real over-romanticization - it's Ali's defense. His talking about it (he talked about it in the biography) being great - masked it being pretty bad. And fighters would consistently overprepare for this great defense, over extend and get too picky at range. Ali was at his best landing significant shots backing up while locking up his opponents. But that's because they were busy trying to solve a riddle that wasn't there. His arms were never in a defensive position and he flat out never cared about defending his body. OR really anything for that matter. I'm not trying to be THAT guy - but there's a reason he got Parkinson's and that's from the damage he took on a regular basis. That and watch any Ali fight and start watching the number of left hooks he gets hit with and you'll give up by round-5. That was Tyson's bread and butter. Tyson's defense was overstated, too - but he wasn't open for businesses all fight long to the extent Ali was. He got knocked out more in his career, but i'm not sure he sustained a tenth of the punishment. I hear the argument about Ali's chin and yeah - I'd be there in saying - IF Ali could get past the fifth/sixth round, he'd probably be able to outclass Tyson in the later rounds. Tyson always got anxious when he couldn't put guys out early. Ali's clearly a better conditioned fighter. I just don't know how Ali gets out of the first three rounds. Like everything he did poorly rolls into Tyson's strengths and truth be told - Tyson KO'd a lot of guys dead who had fantastic chins. I'm not sure it's much of a defense. [/QUOTE]

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