OT: Boy Scouts poaching from the Girl Scouts?

[Blakeon18]

Boy Scouts will admit girls in 2018

The link is to an article describing the outreach of the Boy Scouts to have girls join.
The Girl Scouts aren't one bit happy.

Thoughts?

 

[meyers7]

Boy Scouts will admit girls in 2018

The link is to an article describing the outreach of the Boy Scouts to have girls join.
The Girl Scouts aren't one bit happy.

Thoughts?

As long as I can still get my Thin Mints, whatever.

 

[jimazee]

Sad

As long as I can still get my Thin Mints, whatever.

Agree but...

for some, a sad symptom of seemingly senseless shifting sands of social standards.

Being old has its advantages

 

[meyers7]

Sad


Agree but...

for some, a sad symptom of seemingly senseless shifting sands of social standards.

Being old has its advantages

I agree, not sure why there can't be Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. However I think this might have more to do with dwindling numbers than any "social standards".

 

[Deadrody]

Not sad. I was a Boy Scout. My daughter was in Girl Scouts. The two organizations and their activities could not BE more different.

Is it really that crazy to think there are girls interested in the activities that the Boy Scouts do ?

 

[huskeynut]

As a registered Boy Scout leader for 30 years, the move to include girls in the Boy Scout program has been in the works for a while. Over 10 years ago, BSA welcomed girls into the Venturing program. For those unfamiliar with all the BSA programs, Venturing is a coed program, ages 14 to 21, that allows youth to explore various activities. Exploring is still part of BSA and has had girls for years. Exploring is a career exploration oriented program.

This year, Cub Packs will welcome girls in. The girls will be in separate dens. Camping on the Cub Scout level is family camping. So no issue there. Next year, girls may join the troop program. Again, girls will have separate patrols. As to camping, on the troop level, girls patrols can and will be encouraged to camp. Obviously, the girls will be in separate tents. Again, should not be a problem as most troops have their own tents for the Scouts to use. Registered and trained female leaders will be required for the troops. This should not be a problem. Back in the mid 90's I had 3 trained female assistant Scoutmasters. My troop had an enrollment of over 60 boys. The ladies were wonderful. They camped, hiked, taught Scout skills and were mentors to patrols. There have been and continue to be trained, registered female Scoutmasters.

I agree that the Boy Scout program and the Girl Scout are completely different. And yes, I can tell you from experience many young girls and young ladies want and desire the program BSA offers. These girls want the outdoor challenge that BSA offers and GSUSA does not.

 

[Puppy Love]

I was camping at a Connecticut campground this weekend. Our site was in the middle of a fairly large group of Cub Scouts having an end of year camping trip. As a group, the kids (all boys-mostly first and second graders) were pretty well behaved. Most of them had excellent manners. Two of them got into a minor skirmish. I was totally disappointed to hear the adult that broke it up repeatedly tell them that the were fighting 'like a couple of girls.'. I know you can't blame the Scouts organization for the word choice of one adult, but it did make me think I wouldn't want my daughter to have these role models.

 

[CL82]

As a registered Boy Scout leader for 30 years, the move to include girls in the Boy Scout program has been in the works for a while. Over 10 years ago, BSA welcomed girls into the Venturing program. For those unfamiliar with all the BSA programs, Venturing is a coed program, ages 14 to 21, that allows youth to explore various activities. Exploring is still part of BSA and has had girls for years. Exploring is a career exploration oriented program.

This year, Cub Packs will welcome girls in. The girls will be in separate dens. Camping on the Cub Scout level is family camping. So no issue there. Next year, girls may join the troop program. Again, girls will have separate patrols. As to camping, on the troop level, girls patrols can and will be encouraged to camp. Obviously, the girls will be in separate tents. Again, should not be a problem as most troops have their own tents for the Scouts to use. Registered and trained female leaders will be required for the troops. This should not be a problem. Back in the mid 90's I had 3 trained female assistant Scoutmasters. My troop had an enrollment of over 60 boys. The ladies were wonderful. They camped, hiked, taught Scout skills and were mentors to patrols. There have been and continue to be trained, registered female Scoutmasters.

I agree that the Boy Scout program and the Girl Scout are completely different. And yes, I can tell you from experience many young girls and young ladies want and desire the program BSA offers. These girls want the outdoor challenge that BSA offers and GSUSA does not.

I've heard from one veteran Scouter that plan was for separation by Troop, not Patrol. He's fairly well connected, but I hadn't heard that elsewhere. Are you sure their will be co-ed troops?

Co-ed troops will provide some supervision challenges, which aren't insurmountable. Although I'd be cautious not to under estimate the ingenuity of a teenage boy when it comes to matters of the opposite sex.

As I'm sure you know, the GSA program used to be very parallel to BSA's. The current program is, in my opinion, a mess. It really needs to back to roots, much like the program revisions that took place in Boy Scouts under Bill Hillcourt's guidance in the late 70's.

I see no transition difficulties all at the Cub Scout level. That really is family based already. I'm suspect that there will be more challenges at the Boy Scout level, though I do think that extending the excellent BSA program to girls is a good thing overall.

 

[huskeynut]

I've heard from one veteran Scouter that plan was for separation by Troop, not Patrol. He's fairly well connected, but I hadn't heard that elsewhere. Are you sure their will be co-ed troops?

Co-ed troops will provide some supervision challenges, which aren't insurmountable. Although I'd be cautious not to under estimate the ingenuity of a teenage boy when it comes to matters of the opposite sex.

As I'm sure you know, the GSA program used to be very parallel to BSA's. The current program is, in my opinion, a mess. It really needs to back to roots, much like the program revisions that took place in Boy Scouts under Bill Hillcourt's guidance in the late 70's.

I see no transition difficulties all at the Cub Scout level. That really is family based already. I'm suspect that there will be more challenges at the Boy Scout level, though I do think that extending the excellent BSA program to girls is a good thing overall.

CL82 - my understanding is that a troop will have both a boys section (patrols) and a girls section (patrols) - for lack of better terms. This is from my Scouter friends back in CT. The overall troop structure will not change. There will be one troop committee, parent volunteers, that oversees and assists both segments. There will be one Scoutmaster with several assistant Scoutmasters. There will be one Senior Patrol Leader for the entire troop. The Patrol Leaders' Council, the youth led governing body, will have both boys and girls on it (patrol leaders). I would not be surprised if down the road there will be all female troops. The evolution will be interesting to see.

There is going to be resistance to this new format for BSA. Any time there is a major change, people resist to different levels. Some leaders are going to leave the program. They cannot support the new direction. We saw this with the gay issue. As with your Scouter friend, we already have different interpretations of the new program.

I believe the key will be adult supervision of the overall troop program. There must be registered and trained female leaders - assistant Scoutmasters. They will have to camp and hike just as the men do. The rule of two-deep leadership is a must. All troop leaders will have to be vigilant at all times.

And yes, boys will be boys but BSA has dealt with that for several years under the Venture program, which has been successful. Many lessons and strategies are there for all to see. Camping with girls is no different than schools trips for bands, ski trip weekends and the like. There are plenty of programs that have handled the coed problem successfully.

BSA has gone through and still dealing with a lot of changes in the last few years. The LDS Church recently leaving BSA has been a major blow. From my view point, I still believe in Scouting and the ideals, principals and skills it teaches. I'm the proud father of 2 Eagles Scouts and have 2 grandsons in the program and the third grandson will be there in a couple of years. To quote Tug McGraw - "You gotta believe!"

 

[CL82]

CL82 - my understanding is that a troop will have both a boys section (patrols) and a girls section (patrols) - for lack of better terms. This is from my Scouter friends back in CT. The overall troop structure will not change. There will be one troop committee, parent volunteers, that oversees and assists both segments. There will be one Scoutmaster with several assistant Scoutmasters. There will be one Senior Patrol Leader for the entire troop. The Patrol Leaders' Council, the youth led governing body, will have both boys and girls on it (patrol leaders). I would not be surprised if down the road there will be all female troops. The evolution will be interesting to see.

There is going to be resistance to this new format for BSA. Any time there is a major change, people resist to different levels. Some leaders are going to leave the program. They cannot support the new direction. We saw this with the gay issue. As with your Scouter friend, we already have different interpretations of the new program.

I believe the key will be adult supervision of the overall troop program. There must be registered and trained female leaders - assistant Scoutmasters. They will have to camp and hike just as the men do. The rule of two-deep leadership is a must. All troop leaders will have to be vigilant at all times.

And yes, boys will be boys but BSA has dealt with that for several years under the Venture program, which has been successful. Many lessons and strategies are there for all to see. Camping with girls is no different than schools trips for bands, ski trip weekends and the like. There are plenty of programs that have handled the coed problem successfully.

BSA has gone through and still dealing with a lot of changes in the last few years. The LDS Church recently leaving BSA has been a major blow. From my view point, I still believe in Scouting and the ideals, principals and skills it teaches. I'm the proud father of 2 Eagles Scouts and have 2 grandsons in the program and the third grandson will be there in a couple of years. To quote Tug McGraw - "You gotta believe!"

Great summary. You are preaching to choir about Scouting. My son is an Eagle and I was an adult leader for a dozen years. I still am involved as an Eagle coach and on Eagle Boards of Review.

I think the extension of the program to girls will be great for them. The Scouting program is unique in that in most other youth activities decisions are made by adult leaders, but in a well run boy led (I guess now that should be "Scout led") troop the opportunity to learn practical leadership skills is unmatched. Young women will benefit from it as greatly as young men do.

Let me offer one more thought on the supervision issue. Yes, many programs have co-ed trips, but those have a heavy adult presence to help monitor the kids. One of the great things about a well run Troop is that the adult presence is minimal (but always two deep) and largely invisible. Addressing the supervision issue issue by adding a ubiquitous adult presence is problematic. That said, I'm sure that it can be addressed successfully.

I do worry about the same kind of program creep mistakes that GS saw, but that's just a matter of vigilance at the national level.

LDS leaving as a troop sponsor is not a surprise. They have expressed their concerns about policy changes. I am sure that the national office took that into account in make the decision to expand the program girls. I do believe that move to expand the program was largely a marketing decision to create a larger pool of potential Scouts. In the near term the loss of LDS will more than offset any gain in membership. Hopefully it will all work out in the end.

YIS,
CL82