OT: Battle of Gettysburg

[johnnyc]

Ursusminor has done some re-enacting, and some years back, she & I went to the Harper's Ferry Christmas re-enactment. While she did her "bit", I wandered the town and the event. Afterwards, we drove up to Antietam for the annual battlefield Luminaria - really, really cool. They put up a luminaria for each of the 20,000+ casualties of the battle, and intersperse camping re-enactors throughout the grounds. I highly recommend it, should you have the chance. But, get there early - the line starts forming a couple of hours in advance, and goes about 2 miles long.

I have heard of it and hope to get to see it. I was able to visit the battlefield for a day on a job training trip a few years back. Not really enough of a visit. I would like to take a few days to go on a tour. I have visited Gettysburg a few times so I think Shiloh is next.

Second, the Confederacy was seeking formal recognition of its' existence from Britain, France, etc.., and the economic advantages that might arise should the Union blockade now be formally interfering with European nations trading with an officially-acknowledged nation. In short, if the CSA was a real entity in Britain's eyes, and the two nations had a trading relationship, then the Union blockade would run the risk of angering Britain, and perhaps English frigates would be called upon to enforce Her Majesty's trading rights.

Carrying the conflict onto northern soil, instead of constantly being on the defensive, would make it easier for the Confederacy's representatives in London & elsewhere to make the case for formal recognition. "See? We're carrying the war to them! See what they're newspapers are saying, about settling this, about suing for peace! This is gonna end soon, the North is losing its' resolve. Lincoln won't win re-election, and the new administration will work out a settlement. And, you know how much you love our cotton, and you know how much we love your manufactured goods, so, let's make this official, shall we?"

It helps to remember that it had only been about 50 years since British troops burned Washington, DC., and less than 90 since the revolution, Yorktown, etc. - there wasn't the warm "first among allies" relationship that has existed between our two nations for nearly 100 years now. The United States was still an upstart, crude, PITA reminder of one of the Empire's most embarrassing losses - and, Lincoln, that rube born in a log cabin, self-educated lawyer from frontier Illinois, almost epitomized the caricature that England had of their "American Cousins". Remember, Jeff Foxworthy still gets laughs about redneck jokes - to Great Britain, the Empire on which the sun never sets, with centuries of history, with the bluest bloodlines - our whole country, especially Lincoln, was a redneck joke. They had little reason to love the United States, and some interest in dividing it, and taking it down a peg. If the south succeeded in seceding, well, that might be a good thing in London.

But forgetting the one factor that I think overrides everything. England had already outlawed slavery. I don't think they would have come in as long as slavery was still going to be part of a confederate economic future.

 

[CL82]

Yup. IF Jeb Stuart had not been out raiding Union supply trains and IF Gen. Lee had ORDERED Longstreet to proceed directly to secure Little Round Top rather than suggesting (which was his gentlemanly way) or IF Longstreet had been more amenable to following Lee's "suggestions" or IF Lee had taken his first day's losses and moved on or......history would have been much different. I visited the battlefield once, as part of a month-long tour of CW battle sites. Although I am not given to belief in spirits or vibes or suchlike, I will have to admit that just walking onto that hallowed ground raised the hair on the back of my neck. Pickett's charge has to go down with the charge of the Scots at Culloden and the Light Brigade's charge at Balaclava as one of the most gallant, totally misguided and disastrous single actions in the history of warfare.

The perspective thing casts some light on Lee's decision. I have always wondered how such an astute general could make such a totally insane-seeming blunder.

I don't think it was Longstreet who refused to engage but another commander on the scene (maybe Hood, but I don't remember.) Lee's orders were to take the hill if practical. The last phrase made the decision to proceed a matter of judgment for the field commander.

On the other hand, a Union commander (maybe Reynolds) orders Col. Joshua Chamberlain of the 20th Maine to hold the left flank at all costs. Thus when Chamberlains 20th Maine runs out of ammo he orders a bayonet charge keeping the Confederates from turn the North's flank. Those are the details that win or lose battles.

A great book on this subject is Michael Schaara's The Killer Angels. It is historical fiction based upon the letters and journals of the major players. It is a really, really good read. I strongly recommend it to anyone interested in the Battle of Gettysburg, or the Civil War generally.

 

[Icebear]

A great book on this subject is Michael Schaara's The Killer Angels. It is historical fiction based upon the letters and journals of the major players. It is a really, really good read. I strongly recommend it to anyone interested in the Battle of Gettysburg, or the Civil War generally.

Schaara was one of the many to speak at the LTS-G while I was there during seminary. His insights and thoughts in person and concerning his research were even more interesting in person than in the book, at least for a bunch of students who were immersed in the study of old texts everyday.

 

[CL82]

Schaara was one of the many to speak at the LTS-G while I was there during seminary. His insights and thoughts in person and concerning his research were even more interesting in person than in the book, at least for a bunch of students who were immersed in the study of old texts everyday.

I would love to have been able to have heard that. I really enjoy his style of merging research and creativity.

 

[freescooter]

Lots of interesting events and decisions associated with Gettysburg. George Meade calling his field commanders to a meeting on the evening of July 2 and asking them to vote on whether to retreat or continue the battle. The vote was reported as unanimous for continuing. there are various theories about why Meade took what was then, and still would be today, a pretty unusual step. On one side are those who claim that Meade lacked the confidence to make the decision on his own. On the other side are those who claim that he actually did it to consolidate his command on an Army which he had only commanded for a few days and which had several generals, Dan Sickles and Butterfield in particular, who were already actively trying to undercut him. And for what its worth, I thought it was Hancock who ordered Chamberlain to hold the hill at all costs.

 

[CL82]

Lots of interesting events and decisions associated with Gettysburg. George Meade calling his field commanders to a meeting on the evening of July 2 and asking them to vote on whether to retreat or continue the battle. The vote was reported as unanimous for continuing. there are various theories about why Meade took what was then, and still would be today, a pretty unusual step. On one side are those who claim that Meade lacked the confidence to make the decision on his own. On the other side are those who claim that he actually did it to consolidate his command on an Army which he had only commanded for a few days and which had several generals, Dan Sickles and Butterfield in particular, who were already actively trying to undercut him. And for what its worth, I thought it was Hancock who ordered Chamberlain to hold the hill at all costs.

Meade's decision not to pursue Lee after battle extended the War years, in my (and many others) opinion. Had Grant been in command, I think he'd have pursued. I do understand Meade's thought process though. At that point the tactical goal of getting a major win for the Army of the Potomac may have out weighed the risky but strategically prudent goal of taking Lee and his Virginians off the field.

 

[Icebear]

One thing is for sure. The various officers of Gettysburg have been second guessed more often than Geno following a ND game.