OT: Anyone Have A Readers Digest Version of Lakers Ball

[RockyMTblue2]

Fiasco. Just stumbled into a lengthy article on Yardbarker about how very bad Ball is. Bad mechanics. No confidence. Avoids contact 'cuz can't hit a free throw. Etc. Anybody have any insight into how this happened to the Lakers? I suspect Addidas and Nike are relieved the kid turned them down.

 

[Checkmate]

Fiasco. Just stumbled into a lengthy article on Yardbarker about how very bad Ball is. Bad mechanics. No confidence. Avoids contact 'cuz can't hit a free throw. Etc. Anybody have any insight into how this happened to the Lakers? I suspect Addidas and Nike are relieved the kid turned them down.

Helen Keller could see how bad his shot mechanics are. And the Lakers wanted to sell tickets for Showtime.

 

[willtalk]

Parents like Lavar often hinder their children's potential via interfering with their development. You see it more in high school because the kids are usually living at home and still under the negative influence of their parents. Ball going to UCLA pretty much kept him still under Lavar's thumb. Even parents with plenty of BB knowledge need to learn to step back and let the programs and coaches their offspring their children are in do their job without undercutting them. A smart program will also consider the influence a parent has when recruiting a player. In this sort of case it is an advantage when the parent is across country and the player doesn't have the option of opting out after only one year for the pro's.

They Lakers should have known better. Just the example that Lavar set in respect to his second sons antics in China speaks volumes. In the past this sort of thing was less prevalent in WBB but it has also began to manifest more frequently. Basketball, after all, is still the ultimate team game where the sum of the parts are more important than the individuals that make up the whole.

 

[TitleTown]

He's an @$$!

That's as short as I could make it.

 

[willtalk]

Helen Keller could see how bad his shot mechanics are. And the Lakers wanted to sell tickets for Showtime.

I think Helen would also become immediately verbally articulate if she had to witness the Ball circus.

 

[j66kicker]

Today, regarding the news that Lavar has withdrawn LaMelo from UCLA and said his younger kid won't play there either, Colin Cowherd congratulated UCLA for 1) hiring Chip Kelly as football coach, and 2) getting rid of the "Ball Circus."

 

[HGN]

Readers Digest......One's a Big Talker ; One's a Big Disappointment ; And one's a Big Thief.

Anything else you want to know?

 

[JordyG]

I watched Ball in college and I distinctly remember saying on the BY that he would be lucky to be a 2nd or 3rd team all star a few times in his life. I stated his jumper was horrible and he was of average athleticism. I took some flack here for that statement. Since of course it hasn't been hard to note his lack of leadership and aggressiveness. He is not a bust, but he will never be Magic Johnson. Or Ben Simmons for that matter. None of his kids will be. Credit his father for hyping this kid so much as to make him LA's #1 pick. Some of you here think his father interfered with his development, especially with his shot. But I've seen some real funky shooters become all stars. Just think on this. Lavar got his above average son a max contract. Whatever you may think of him as a person, think you could do the same for your son?

 

[Huskee11]

Surprising that his shooting mechanics could so ugly for a player of that level. Where was Lavar helping with that ten years ago? I agree that not all good shooters have perfect form but at a minimum that is a high maintenance release. Consistency difficult.

Heard one commentator note it is very hard for him to shoot off the dribble going to his right because he is then bringing the ball back behind his left ear and toward the defender.

Those of us who are Celtics fans are overjoyed with number three pick Jayson Tatum.

 

[DaddyChoc]

I watched Ball in college and I distinctly remember saying on the BY that he would be lucky to be a 2nd or 3rd team all star a few times in his life. I stated his jumper was horrible and he was of average athleticism. I took some flack here for that statement. Since of course it's been hard to note his lack of leadership and aggressiveness. He is not a bust, but he will never be Magic Johnson. Or Ben Simmons for that matter. None of his kids will be. Credit his father for hyping this kid so much as to make him LA's #1 pick. Some of you here think his father interfered with his development, especially with his shot. But I've seen some real funky shooters become all stars. Just think on this. Lavar got his above average son a max contract. Whatever you may think of him as a person, think you could do the same for your son?

Post of the Day 12/5/17

BTW the NBA kid could almost average a triple/double every night. And if you're foolish enough (not you) to follow the Ball circus as some call it, that's your fault. Im not gonna hate anyone that I don't follow enough and seeing one interview isnt gonna make me hate/dislike anyone.

I think Dad is the whippin' man of some for other reasons!

 

[Plebe]

I think this is a fair, levelheaded summary:

The Ball family-UCLA divorce you knew was coming

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I still find it stranger than fiction that a failed ball player with a big mouth could flim flam a pro team into making his kid their number 1 draft pick. I suspect there will come a day when none of the three kids will want to have anything to do with their father. I suspect the Big baller brand will soon be the butt of jokes and it will not be cool to be seen in a pair.

 

[stamfordhusky]

Just think on this. Lavar got his above average son a max contract. Whatever you may think of him as a person, think you could do the same for your son?

I think anyone could have got his son the contract he got, since the NBA has a rookie salary scale which is a fraction of what veterans can earn. The max is 120% of the scale amount for a given pick, and all of the top rookies end up with that. In Ball's case that came to a two-year guaranteed salary of about $13.8 Million total - about $6.3 Million for this year alone. Only time will tell how much he is worth down the road. He is a great playmaker and able to get to the basket, but as mentioned above, he is a very poor outside shooter.

For those interested, the NBA veterans' max is between $25 Million and $36 Million a year for a player who re-signs with the same team, depending on how long he has been in the league. ;The salary scale amount for a rookie taken in the first round varies from $5.8 Million down to $1.2 Million depending on when in the first round the player is taken. Guaranteed money is limited to two years for rookies.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I think anyone could have got his son the contract he got, since the NBA has a rookie salary scale which is a fraction of what veterans can earn. The max is 120% of the scale amount for a given pick, and all of the top rookies end up with that. In Ball's case that came to a two-year guaranteed salary of about $13.8 Million total - about $6.3 Million for this year alone. Only time will tell how much he is worth down the road. He is a great playmaker and able to get to the basket, but as mentioned above, he is a very poor outside shooter.

For those interested, the NBA veterans' max is between $25 Million and $36 Million a year for a player who re-signs with the same team, depending on how long he has been in the league. ;The salary scale amount for a rookie taken in the first round varies from $5.8 Million down to $1.2 Million depending on when in the first round the player is taken. Guaranteed money is limited to two years for rookies.

How did you do that? That was not posted by me. @JordyG posted.

 

[stamfordhusky]

How did you do that? That was not posted by me. @JordyG posted.

No idea. I just hit the reply button.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

No idea. I just hit the reply button.

Ah, Ye Olde AI glitch. We'll see more and more of those. It's the ones we'll see on the highway that scare me the most.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

I still find it stranger than fiction that a failed ball player with a big mouth could flim flam a pro team into making his kid their number 1 draft pick.

Lonzo Ball was the #2 pick; Philadelphia (via trade with Boston) took Markelle Fultz with the # pick.

Lonzo currently ranks 8th in the NBA in assists per game, at 7.0 apg. He is also averaging 6.9 rebounds per game, which is pretty incredible for a point guard - in fact, his 6.9 rpg ranks 3rd in the NBA among PGs and 4th among all rookies. Among rookies, only Ben Simmons (who is a year older and sat out last year with an injury) is averaging more assists per game than Lonzo - 7.1 to 7.0.

Now, the shooting is atrocious. It really is. Normally, if a player is a good free throw shooter, one expects the outside shooting to come along. But Lonzo has been pretty terrible at the charity stripe as well.

But Lonzo's court vision, especially for someone at his age and with the youth of the Lakers, is amazing. It is truly exceptional. That is why he was drafted so high. Put aside his father's histrionics; Lonzo is a very talented player with a lot of upside/potential - as soon as he fixes his shooting form.

Consider these numbers:
11.7 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 7.7 apg, 38.5 percent from the floor, 27.2 percent from three

These were the rookie season numbers of Jason Kidd, the player to whom Lonzo is most often compared by NBA scouts/analysts. It took Kidd some time, but he really worked on his form (as well as when to shoot). He was never a great shooter, but he maximized his effectiveness by being the consummate playmaker and a great rebounder at his size and for his position (and eventually won an NBA title).

Lonzo Ball was 19 years old when the season started (he turned 20 on October 27), and he has played 23 games in his career. I am not willing to write him off as a bust after such a short period of time, especially when you consider his assists and rebounds, his age/youth, the youth of the entire Lakers core (Ingram, Kuzma, Randle, etc.), and having to perform under more scrutiny than any other rookie (his summer league games were sold out!) in terms of media and fan attention because of the antics and behavior of his father. In no way do I think drafting Ball #2 was a "flim flam;" he is a PG for the future and had the talent to justify being selected #2.

As an aside, do not pay attention to his father. That being said, there are times when he reminds me of another loud, brash, outspoken parent who made bold proclamations and ridiculous statements twenty years ago - Richard Williams, father to Venus and Serena Williams. Normally, I would have completely dismissed LaVar Ball as it pertains to Lonzo Ball, but there is a part of me that remembers people dismissing Richard Williams when he predicted - before either daughter played a pro match - that Venus and Serena would dominate women's tennis and be ranked 1-2 and that Serena would be the greatest player of all time. And that worked out.

**This entire post pained me to write, as it is very difficult to be complimentary of any player on the Lakers (outside of Brandon Ingram, who went to Duke) as a diehard Phoenix Suns fan.**

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Lonzo Ball was the #2 pick; Philadelphia (via trade with Boston) took Markelle Fultz with the # pick.

Lonzo currently ranks 8th in the NBA in assists per game, at 7.0 apg. He is also averaging 6.9 rebounds per game, which is pretty incredible for a point guard - in fact, his 6.9 rpg ranks 3rd in the NBA among PGs and 4th among all rookies. Among rookies, only Ben Simmons (who is a year older and sat out last year with an injury) is averaging more assists per game than Lonzo - 7.1 to 7.0.

Now, the shooting is atrocious. It really is. Normally, if a player is a good free throw shooter, one expects the outside shooting to come along. But Lonzo has been pretty terrible at the charity stripe as well.

But Lonzo's court vision, especially for someone at his age and with the youth of the Lakers, is amazing. It is truly exceptional. That is why he was drafted so high. Put aside his father's histrionics; Lonzo is a very talented player with a lot of upside/potential - as soon as he fixes his shooting form.

Consider these numbers:
11.7 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 7.7 apg, 38.5 percent from the floor, 27.2 percent from three

These were the rookie season numbers of Jason Kidd, the player to whom Lonzo is most often compared by NBA scouts/analysts. It took Kidd some time, but he really worked on his form (as well as when to shoot). He was never a great shooter, but he maximized his effectiveness by being the consummate playmaker and a great rebounder at his size and for his position (and eventually won an NBA title).

Lonzo Ball was 19 years old when the season started (he turned 20 on October 27), and he has played 23 games in his career. I am not willing to write him off as a bust after such a short period of time, especially when you consider his assists and rebounds, his age/youth, the youth of the entire Lakers core (Ingram, Kuzma, Randle, etc.), and having to perform under more scrutiny than any other rookie (his summer league games were sold out!) in terms of media and fan attention because of the antics and behavior of his father. In no way do I think drafting Ball #2 was a "flim flam;" he is a PG for the future and had the talent to justify being selected #2.

As an aside, do not pay attention to his father. That being said, there are times when he reminds me of another loud, brash, outspoken parent who made bold proclamations and ridiculous statements twenty years ago - Richard Williams, father to Venus and Serena Williams. Normally, I would have completely dismissed LaVar Ball as it pertains to Lonzo Ball, but there is a part of me that remembers people dismissing Richard Williams when he predicted - before either daughter played a pro match - that Venus and Serena would dominate women's tennis and be ranked 1-2 and that Serena would be the greatest player of all time. And that worked out.

**This entire post pained me to write, as it is very difficult to be complimentary of any player on the Lakers (outside of Brandon Ingram, who went to Duke) as a diehard Phoenix Suns fan.**

I appreciate the work that went into that Cam and you make good points. However, if you wanted to make the Lakers great again would you gamble on this guy? No one can live in the NBA on their assists. Can anyone fix his shot? Not in season and has anyone tried before. May it all work out, but it made no sense at all for him to be anyone's No. 1 pick. Understand, I care not one wit about anything NBA, but this kid's journey is an illustration of how whacked everything is these days.

 

[Orangutan]

I appreciate the work that went into that Cam and you make good points. However, if you wanted to make the Lakers great again would you gamble on this guy? No one can live in the NBA on their assists. Can anyone fix his shot? Not in season and has anyone tried before. May it all work out, but it made no sense at all for him to be anyone's No. 1 pick. Understand, I care not one wit about anything NBA, but this kid's journey is an illustration of how whacked everything is these days.

It's interesting...he shot 55.1% overall and 41.2% from 3 at UCLA. His free throw percentage was still poor at 67.3% But there was really no sign he would shoot this poorly. I know he has an unorthodox shot. So did Reggie Miller. If it goes in, it goes in. And it did in college.

He's not the first kid (turned 20 in October) to struggle in his first year as a pro. Perhaps the adjustment from his father's circus sideshow to the cold reality of professional basketball has been larger for him than most.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

I appreciate the work that went into that Cam and you make good points. However, if you wanted to make the Lakers great again would you gamble on this guy? No one can live in the NBA on their assists. Can anyone fix his shot? Not in season and has anyone tried before. May it all work out, but it made no sense at all for him to be anyone's No. 1 pick. Understand, I care not one wit about anything NBA, but this kid's journey is an illustration of how whacked everything is these days.

@RockyMTblue2 , I am a self-professed NBA addict. And while I respect your position, I can tell you this - the Lakes should absolutely have taken Ball at #2.

First of all (and a bit of Lakers history), Los Angeles thought it had a PG for the future in D'Angelo Russell, who was taken at #2 in 2015. Russell - who has never had Ball's rebounding ability or court vision - was a relatively good scorer but not a true playmaker on the court and was a toxic presence off of it.

After Kobe Bryant retired in 2016, the Lakers began the rebuild. There was some talent there (Larry Nance, Jr., Julius Randle), but it needed to be molded together. Taking Brandon Ingram was the first step in the 2016 draft. Hiring Magic Johnson as the GM was the next great move. Magic not only moved Russell (who, after the Nick Young incident, was not trusted in the locker room), but also moved the monstrosity that was Timofey Mozgov's contract (ill-advised, by Magic's predecessor) in exchange for the #27 pick, at which LA took Kyle Kuzma, one of the top rookies this year. The team now had a really young, but talented frontcourt rotation; it just needed backcourt stars and depth (Jordan Clarkson is a really nice, young PG/SG who can be a scorer of the bench, but that was it).

By taking Ball and committing to him, LA has its core for the future. Of course no one could fix his shot this year. He, like all rookies, went from the draft to summer league to the NBA preseason to the NBA regular season. Fixing the shot is what will be done in the offseason, his first real offseason. Also, Ball's vision and rebounding are intangibles you simply cannot teach. When you have possess those elite innate skills, it definitely made sense to take Ball at #2.

Other key Magic Johnson moves - trading for Brook Lopez (as part of the Russell deal) and signing Kentavious Caldwell-Pope to a huge one-year contract. Lopez (interior) and Pope (outside shooting) provide offensive weapons next to the Lakers' youth and fill key positions, but whose contracts expire after this year. LA has $104,106,227 in committed salaries for this year (salary cap is $99 million; luxury tax limit is #113 million), but only $51,063,606 for next year, when the salary cap will be over $100 million and LA will have the ability to sign not one, but two superstars.

You cannot look at a 20 year old's shooting percentages for 23 games and declare him a bust or state that it made no sense for him to be drafted where he was. He was drafted on his potential; that is not "whacked," but a testament to his truly elite skillset in certain key areas.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

@RockyMTblue2 , I am a self-professed NBA addict. And while I respect your position, I can tell you this - the Lakes should absolutely have taken Ball at #2.

First of all (and a bit of Lakers history), Los Angeles thought it had a PG for the future in D'Angelo Russell, who was taken at #2 in 2015. Russell - who has never had Ball's rebounding ability or court vision - was a relatively good scorer but not a true playmaker on the court and was a toxic presence off of it.

After Kobe Bryant retired in 2016, the Lakers began the rebuild. There was some talent there (Larry Nance, Jr., Julius Randle), but it needed to be molded together. Taking Brandon Ingram was the first step in the 2016 draft. Hiring Magic Johnson as the GM was the next great move. Magic not only moved Russell (who, after the Nick Young incident, was not trusted in the locker room), but also moved the monstrosity that was Timofey Mozgov's contract (ill-advised, by Magic's predecessor) in exchange for the #27 pick, at which LA took Kyle Kuzma, one of the top rookies this year. The team now had a really young, but talented frontcourt rotation; it just needed backcourt stars and depth (Jordan Clarkson is a really nice, young PG/SG who can be a scorer of the bench, but that was it).

By taking Ball and committing to him, LA has its core for the future. Of course no one could fix his shot this year. He, like all rookies, went from the draft to summer league to the NBA preseason to the NBA regular season. Fixing the shot is what will be done in the offseason, his first real offseason. Also, Ball's vision and rebounding are intangibles you simply cannot teach. When you have possess those elite innate skills, it definitely made sense to take Ball at #2.

Other key Magic Johnson moves - trading for Brook Lopez (as part of the Russell deal) and signing Kentavious Caldwell-Pope to a huge one-year contract. Lopez (interior) and Pope (outside shooting) provide offensive weapons next to the Lakers' youth and fill key positions, but whose contracts expire after this year. LA has $104,106,227 in committed salaries for this year (salary cap is $99 million; luxury tax limit is #113 million), but only $51,063,606 for next year, when the salary cap will be over $100 million and LA will have the ability to sign not one, but two superstars.

You cannot look at a 20 year old's shooting percentages for 23 games and declare him a bust or state that it made no sense for him to be drafted where he was. He was drafted on his potential; that is not "whacked," but a testament to his truly elite skillset in certain key areas.

Cam, thanks for the insight. Let's tune in next year around this time. I'd really like the Lakers, dreaded foe of my Celts, to become relevant again after the multi-year Kobe kiss off.

 

[wallman]

The lakers passed on Karl Anthony Towns for Diangelo Russell

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

The lakers passed on Karl Anthony Towns for Diangelo Russell

With all due respect, this is completely NOT true.

Minnesota took KAT with the first pick. Los Angeles had the second pick and selected Russell.

2015 NBA Draft | Basketball-Reference.com

 

[wallman]

With all due respect, this is completely NOT true.

Minnesota took KAT with the first pick. Los Angeles had the second pick and selected Russell.

2015 NBA Draft | Basketball-Reference.com

LOL my bad I was still remembering all the rumors they were going to trade the pick but still mad they took Russel.

 

[Plebe]

Lonzo Ball was the #2 pick; Philadelphia (via trade with Boston) took Markelle Fultz with the # pick.

Lonzo currently ranks 8th in the NBA in assists per game, at 7.0 apg. He is also averaging 6.9 rebounds per game, which is pretty incredible for a point guard - in fact, his 6.9 rpg ranks 3rd in the NBA among PGs and 4th among all rookies. Among rookies, only Ben Simmons (who is a year older and sat out last year with an injury) is averaging more assists per game than Lonzo - 7.1 to 7.0.

Now, the shooting is atrocious. It really is. Normally, if a player is a good free throw shooter, one expects the outside shooting to come along. But Lonzo has been pretty terrible at the charity stripe as well.

But Lonzo's court vision, especially for someone at his age and with the youth of the Lakers, is amazing. It is truly exceptional. That is why he was drafted so high. Put aside his father's histrionics; Lonzo is a very talented player with a lot of upside/potential - as soon as he fixes his shooting form.

Consider these numbers:
11.7 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 7.7 apg, 38.5 percent from the floor, 27.2 percent from three

These were the rookie season numbers of Jason Kidd, the player to whom Lonzo is most often compared by NBA scouts/analysts. It took Kidd some time, but he really worked on his form (as well as when to shoot). He was never a great shooter, but he maximized his effectiveness by being the consummate playmaker and a great rebounder at his size and for his position (and eventually won an NBA title).

Lonzo Ball was 19 years old when the season started (he turned 20 on October 27), and he has played 23 games in his career. I am not willing to write him off as a bust after such a short period of time, especially when you consider his assists and rebounds, his age/youth, the youth of the entire Lakers core (Ingram, Kuzma, Randle, etc.), and having to perform under more scrutiny than any other rookie (his summer league games were sold out!) in terms of media and fan attention because of the antics and behavior of his father. In no way do I think drafting Ball #2 was a "flim flam;" he is a PG for the future and had the talent to justify being selected #2.

As an aside, do not pay attention to his father. That being said, there are times when he reminds me of another loud, brash, outspoken parent who made bold proclamations and ridiculous statements twenty years ago - Richard Williams, father to Venus and Serena Williams. Normally, I would have completely dismissed LaVar Ball as it pertains to Lonzo Ball, but there is a part of me that remembers people dismissing Richard Williams when he predicted - before either daughter played a pro match - that Venus and Serena would dominate women's tennis and be ranked 1-2 and that Serena would be the greatest player of all time. And that worked out.

**This entire post pained me to write, as it is very difficult to be complimentary of any player on the Lakers (outside of Brandon Ingram, who went to Duke) as a diehard Phoenix Suns fan.**

Thanks for the outstanding post. People like you make this an enjoyable place for me.

Many people seem to be deflecting their disdain for his father onto these rash proclamations of what a "bust" Lonzo is, just six weeks into his pro career.

If anything, his father's antics makes me admire Lonzo all the more, because he's conducted himself admirably and been able to earn the trust of his teammates despite having such a loudmouth blowhard of a dad. You can tell that his teammates genuinely like him and enjoy playing with him. And if you judge Lonzo by his own words and actions, as opposed to those of his relatives, you see that he's a humble, soft-spoken, laid-back dude.