OT - America, where oh where art thou?

[Sonny44]

My first [and my last?] OT post. I never do this, but never say never.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/YjntXYDPw44

 

[meyers7]

Interesting, coming from a Harvard professor.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Civility can be inspired by common sense, too, of course. But it will not be inspired by respect for law when our government and "governors" time and again display no respect for it or for "we the people."

 

[lne001]

Ridiculous hypothesis. The Golden Rule is hardly a religion, and it is all you need. Although the Greeks seemed to be onto something with Zeus and Hera.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Ridiculous hypothesis. The Golden Rule is hardly a religion, and it is all you need. Although the Greeks seemed to be onto something with Zeus and Hera.

Uh, actually what we call the Golden Rule is Luke 6:31 and a similar sentiment is found in teachings of Buddha. http://christianity.about.com/od/verseoftheday/a/verseday306.htm

Not proselytizing here. Just wanted to clear up my own curiosity and thought I'd share. More history of The Golden Rule in religious philosophy, pre-Christian.

http://www.answers.com/Q/Where_did_the_golden_rule_come_from

 

[lne001]

A

Uh, actually what we call the Golden Rule is Luke 6:31 and a similar sentiment is found in teachings of Buddha. http://christianity.about.com/od/verseoftheday/a/verseday306.htm

Not proselytizing here. Just wanted to clear up my own curiosity and thought I'd share. More history of The Golden Rule in religious philosophy, pre-Christian.

http://www.answers.com/Q/Where_did_the_golden_rule_come_from

Agree certainly, but the bottom line is that the concept existed well before the Abrahamic religions, well before written languages.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

The bottom line is that your attack on the hypothesis expounded to the Harvard Prof. by his Chinese buddy is faulty, since the fact that Judeo Christian beliefs are not unique does not undercut the premise of the argument. Indeed, very many people probably believe The Golden Rule originated in The New England Primer! If you wish to argue that since the Golden Rule existed for eons without the rise of democracy, and therefore, democracy's existence cannot be based on the Golden Rule... but I think you are wise enough to understand the error of such linear thinking. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to use the gray matter I have left today!

 

[lne001]

The bottom line is that your attack on the hypothesis expounded to the Harvard Prof. by his Chinese buddy is faulty, since the fact that Judeo Christian beliefs are not unique does not undercut the premise of the argument. Indeed, very many people probably believe The Golden Rule originated in The New England Primer! If you wish to argue that since the Golden Rule existed for eons without the rise of democracy, and therefore, democracy's existence cannot be based on the Golden Rule... but I think you are wise enough to understand the error of such linear thinking. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to use the gray matter I have left today!

Not exactly. My premise was that religion is not a necessary condition for democracy. My mention of the Golden Rule only muddied this point. In fact my belief is that the real Golden Rule is that there are no Golden Rules. I am a 'tit for tat' man myself. Have a nice day.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Actually you ridiculed the notion that religion was an important contributor to the rise of democracy in America, then got yourself in a jam by your reference to the Golden Rule, which turns out, dag nabit, to be a concept deeply embedded in many religions. As luck would have it "tit for tat" or eye for an eye (old testament stuff) is often justified by a simplistic misinterpretation of the Golden Rule: do onto others as they have done unto you. Ironic, no? Now we are done and it has been fun.

 

[lne001]

Actually you ridiculed the notion that religion was an important contributor to the rise of democracy in America, then got yourself in a jam by your reference to the Golden Rule, which turns out, dag nabit, to be a concept deeply embedded in many religions. As luck would have it "tit for tat" or eye for an eye (old testament stuff) is often justified by a simplistic misinterpretation of the Golden Rule: do onto others as they have done unto you. Ironic, no? Now we are done and it has been fun.

Actually I criticized the peculiar notion that religion was necessary for democracy anywhere in place or time (note the reference to ancient Greece). My justification for 'tit for tat' has nothing to do with the old testament , but with game theory and my observations of human nature. Your condescending responses are becoming tiresome, and with that I am done.

 

[xoxxox]

America is currently buffered by the Atlantic Ocean on the east and the Pacific Ocean on the west, with the Gulf of Mexico at its southern border. North is the country of Canada. America is about 6,700 miles from China and 5,600 miles from Europe.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

America is currently buffered by the Atlantic Ocean on the east and the Pacific Ocean on the west, with the Gulf of Mexico at its southern border. North is the country of Canada. America is about 6,700 miles from China and 5,600 miles from Europe.

The North American Cartographic Society address is nacis.org.

 

[maddoggy]

Actually you ridiculed the notion that religion was an important contributor to the rise of democracy in America, then got yourself in a jam by your reference to the Golden Rule, which turns out, dag nabit, to be a concept deeply embedded in many religions. As luck would have it "tit for tat" or eye for an eye (old testament stuff) is often justified by a simplistic misinterpretation of the Golden Rule: do onto others as they have done unto you. Ironic, no? Now we are done and it has been fun.

Not ironic -- wrong. An eye for an eye comes from the Code of Hammurabi, which dates to Messopotamia in the 17th century B.C.E., long before Greek and Roman gods, never mind Christianity. It was meant to limit punishment, i.e. make it proportional to the crime instead of, say, beheading someone who poked out your eye. It was considered quite enlightened for its time.

As for the notion that religion was an important contributor to the rise of democracy in the US, historians beg to differ. The Iroquois Confederacy is credited with the oldest form of representative democracy and was an important inspiration for Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson in their push for representative democracy way back when we were colonies of Britain. And speaking of Franklin and Jefferson, they may have been deists but they were hardly ardent Christians.

And whether or not religion is a contributor to democracy, it is fair to say that it has been a contributor to theocracies, in the past and present.

 

[maddoggy]

Sorry - I should have said some historians. Other historians downplay the importance of the Iroqois example in the long run. And there certainly were other influences, including ancient Greece and Rome.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Not ironic -- wrong. An eye for an eye comes from the Code of Hammurabi, which dates to Messopotamia in the 17th century B.C.E., long before Greek and Roman gods, never mind Christianity. It was meant to limit punishment, i.e. make it proportional to the crime instead of, say, beheading someone who poked out your eye. It was considered quite enlightened for its time.

As for the notion that religion was an important contributor to the rise of democracy in the US, historians beg to differ. The Iroquois Confederacy is credited with the oldest form of representative democracy and was an important inspiration for Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson in their push for representative democracy way back when we were colonies of Britain. And speaking of Franklin and Jefferson, they may have been deists but they were hardly ardent Christians.

And whether or not religion is a contributor to democracy, it is fair to say that it has been a contributor to theocracies, in the past and present.

Hey, it isn't wrong. I'm just the reporter and yes, multiple religions share all sorts of stuff ... including the eye/ tooth/ athletes foot stuff. I in no way said Christianity is responsible for the strong poke in the eye stuff. I also didn't speak about Franklin, the womanizer, or Jefferson, the slaver and misogynist, or vouch for them Dealt with very narrow issues with a guy who wanted to smart off. Case you hadn't noticed, there are a couple or 7 theocracies who want to kill you and me and a whole lot of others right now. I suspect some primate other than man came up with democracy when the tribe got tired of fighting over the bananas as they fell of the tree.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

My first [and my last?] OT post. I never do this, but never say never.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/YjntXYDPw44

Holy merde, I hope it's the last!

 

[mhshuskies]

But isn't it great that we can discuss and debate this subject openly?!