Olympic Oops?

[Jmpenn]

She was not better than those chosen for the team last including the league MOP EDD.

That is your opinion and you are welcome to it. And I was saying she played better last season than this season not better than everyone on the team. If Candace had played all of last season she may have been MVP. Her stats were that good and having her back changed her team into a playoff team.

My point is she played very well last year before the team was announced. So your point that she only started playing hard after isn't valid.

 

[shinobimono]

The Olympic is stronger without Candace. All the points were well laid out before. The line ups are more flexible. The stats don't support her being an obvious must take and she takes plays off defensively. She was a disaster against Australia in the semis.

She is playing angry now and might well have been an obvious inclusion if she had approached the process with the same effort and dedication. The team was chosen by committee who clearly chose against her by at least a 3/2 vote. These are professionals who have managed USA Basketball very well and know a lot more about what went on than any of us.

I agree with you about the committee, but how do you know that she is "playing angry"?

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Candace should have been picked over McCoughtry or Fowles. Both are fine players but neither should be ahead of Parker on a roster. The committee picked Fowles as a center with Griner and Geno will likely let Charles play power forward. Along with EDD and Stewart, there was not room left at the position. Parker is an incredibly versatile player but is truly a 4. The committee picked 3 other power forwards, all very deserving. However, Parker should be on the team. Period.

While I love Bird, Whalen, Taurasi and Augustus, there should have been at least one young guard such as Sims, Diggins (yes she's been hurt) Jefferson, McBride, somebody who is 25 or younger to help carry the torch. This roster will likely win the Gold but it will most likely be the last cycle for those 4 guards.

Yes, the omission of both Sims and Loyd is pretty surprising, especially since Loyd is outplaying teammate Sue Bird, and Sims is getting better and better. You'd think that the committee and head coach would want to be building for the future. Sue hasn't really been a dominating point guard for a few years now. She's fifth in assets in the league, but well down in scoring.

I think this roster is a risk. The team composed is hoping for one last push from aging stars. And the omission of Parker can't be explained by anyone, without resort to innuendo and rumor.

It's not a healthy situation they've created. Fingers crossed for an Olympic championship. But we'll see...

 

[msf22b]

Candace should have been picked over McCoughtry or Fowles. Both are fine players but neither should be ahead of Parker on a roster. The committee picked Fowles as a center with Griner and Geno will likely let Charles play power forward. Along with EDD and Stewart, there was not room left at the position. Parker is an incredibly versatile player but is truly a 4. The committee picked 3 other power forwards, all very deserving. However, Parker should be on the team. Period.

Wrong about Fowles...playing out of her mind, the best BB of her career...need the height and bulk

 

[Jmpenn]

Wrong about Fowles...playing out of her mind, the best BB of her career...need the height and bulk

Fowles has been playing great this season until the last game. She had a pretty bad game. Scored 0 points and had 6 rebounds. She was 0-7. Was just one bad game though.

 

[UcMiami]

Yes, the omission of both Sims and Loyd is pretty surprising, especially since Loyd is outplaying teammate Sue Bird, and Sims is getting better and better. You'd think that the committee and head coach would want to be building for the future. Sue hasn't really been a dominating point guard for a few years now. She's fifth in assets in the league, but well down in scoring.

I think this roster is a risk. The team composed is hoping for one last push from aging stars. And the omission of Parker can't be explained by anyone, without resort to innuendo and rumor.

It's not a healthy situation they've created. Fingers crossed for an Olympic championship. But we'll see...

Team USA doesn't want a Loyd or Sims playing point guard spending three quarters of their time on offense trying to create their own shot - they have 4 better shooting options on the floor at all times, and want the PG distributing the ball to the best option all the time. Heck, even Seattle doesn't want Loyd playing point except when Sue takes a rest.

People keep looking at WNBA stats and teams and translating what is happening there to what happens on the NT - the only team that comes close to that situation is MN because they spend a lot of time with for NT players on the court at the same time - replace the fifth player on the court in those situations with ... pick one ... DT, Tina, EDD, Angel, etc. and you begin to see what USA is looking for.
Loyd going off for 19 points while Maya, DT, Tina, BG, Siemone sit around and watch and hope that she remembers to pass to them occasionally (2.8 assists per game) and not to the second row of fans (3.6 TOs per game is not a winning NT approach. Sims (18 ppg, 3 apg, 3.3 TO/g) is the same story.

You want to make an argument to replace Whalen or Bird, the only active healthy player who has such an argument in my mind is Vandersloot, and I will choose the experience over a slight edge in WNBA assists all the time.

You want to take Loyd or Sims, argue that they should replace DT.
You want to take CP, argue that Catchings should be dropped, but then you will have to ignore the WNBA history that says she has been able to 'will' her less talented Indiana team to multiple finals and championships including last year, than CP has been able to do with her great coach and talented LA roster.

 

[Buzzyboy]

I know there were lots of reasons posed for Candace Parker's being left off the Olympic roster at the time. But now that we're five games into the WNBA season, and Parker is ripping a tornado-like path through the league, can we now say that it's beginning to look as though the selection committee really blew it?

Candace Parker - WNBA

Parker is the fifth leading scorer with nearly 21 points a game, she's eighth in rebounds with 7.5, she's tenth in blocks, and twelfth in assists. She's outscoring another roster center, Griner; she's outscoring and out rebounding roster forward Tamika Catching; she's outscoring Seimone Augustus. And she's younger than Catchings. There were hints that Parker wasn't a "team player," though they selected McCaughtry, who has been benched for long periods with no obvious physical ailments.

Can we now say that the decision to leave Parker off the roster is looking pretty bad right now?

She's younger than Catchings and you make it sound like that would be an advantage for Catchings??? Catchings has been playing wonderful basketball for many years and continues to do so even though she's at an age where her skills should be declining. Parker should only HOPE that she has the type of career that Catchings has had and I am comfortable she'll never be as classy a person as is Tamika Catchings who is one of the very special ladies in women's basketball. The presumption that you can determine how good someone is SOLEY on their statistics is quite far fetched. The difference of a couple of points or rebounds per game could be based on position, the type of offensive or defensive sets their particular team is using, the amount of playing time, the supporting cast of their respective teams. Geno doesn't recruit kids based on their statistics but their willingness to play in a system that is focused on team and on WINNING. I think that may be the best reason to choose someone or not choose someone to participate, don't you think????

 

[UcMiami]

[Geno doesn't recruit kid]USA basketball committee doesn't select players based on their statistics but their willingness to play in a system that is focused on team and on WINNING. I think that may be the best reason to choose someone or not choose someone to participate, don't you think????

The essence of the issue. (with my edits.)

 

[Buzzyboy]

Just for the record, Candace does not play the 3 for LA. The accompanying starters for LA are Nneka, Essence Carson, Kristi Tolliver, and Alana Beard, so Candace must be either the 4 or the 5 for the Sparks. Also, Candace's defense seems pretty amazing when measured empirically. Now I know that the stats cannot show everything, but Candace has been very good on defense (statistically) for a long while.

• In 2016, she is 6th in offensive win shares, 1st in defensive win shares, and 4th overall in win shares. (2016 defensive and offensive rating are not yet available on basketball reference website)
• In 2015, she was 8th in offensive rating, 7th in defensive rating, and her win shares/48 minutes was second. (She missed half the season to rest though).
• In 2014, she was top 10 in neither offensive nor defensive rating, although she was 5th in win shares just missed the top 10 in offensive rating, and was 10th in defensive rating.
• In 2013, she was outside the top 10 in offensive rating, 1st in defensive rating, 6th in offensive win shares, and 4th in defensive win shares. (won MVP)
• In 2012, she was outside the top 10 in offensive rating, 4th in defensive rating, 6th in offensive win shares, and 8th in defensive win shares.
• In 2011, she was injured half the year (knee injury).
• In 2010, she was injured 2/3 of the year (shoulder injury).
• In 2009, she was outside the top 10 in offensive rating, 2nd in defensive rating, outside the top 10 in offensive win shares, and 5th in defensive win shares.
• In 2008 (her rookie season), she was 9th in offensive rating, 3rd in defensive rating, 3rd in offensive win shares, and 2nd in defensive win shares. (Won MVP)

Her defense is rated higher than her offense in every season.

As far as her poor shooting percentage to start the year, her 45.5% shooting percentage this season is higher than the following Olympians:

44.7% Elena Delle Donne
43.2% Sue Bird
41.8% Breanna Stewart
40.4% Angel McCoughtry
40.0% Seimone Augustus
37.9% Tamika Catchings
37.1% Diana Taurasi

If she's playing the 5 position, then her shooting percentage should be appreciably higher than other positions on the floor. That would suggest that she's getting a decent amount of "bunnies" that would elevate her shooting percentage. If putbacks or layups are a decent amount of her scoring, I'm inclined to think that would have an impact, right?

 

[lne001]

My only comments on the Parker exclusion to date.

FACTS: Parker is easily one of the 5 most talented players in the world.
Auriemma understands her talents as well as any coach in the world.
He has directly coached her in one prior Olympics and other national team events.
He has very exacting standards for how his teams are to play, from attitude to role to effort.
He did not want Parker on the team. If he had, she would be on it. The Committee did not keep her off against his wishes.
His reasoning was either personal animus or basketball focused.

Since I don't believe him to be a petty man I would lean heavily toward the latter reason. He knows exactly what he is giving up with her absence and is willing to risk his reputation on any negative consequences of that decision. To honestly explain the basketball reasons would be a critique of Candace in some way, and that is not going to happen.

 

[CajunHusky]

My only comments on the Parker exclusion to date.

FACTS: Parker is easily one of the 5 most talented players in the world.
Auriemma understands her talents as well as any coach in the world.
He has directly coached her in one prior Olympics and other national team events.
He has very exacting standards for how his teams are to play, from attitude to role to effort.
He did not want Parker on the team. If he had, she would be on it. The Committee did not keep her off against his wishes.
His reasoning was either personal animus or basketball focused.

Since I don't believe him to be a petty man I would lean heavily toward the latter reason. He knows exactly what he is giving up with her absence and is willing to risk his reputation on any negative consequences of that decision. To honestly explain the basketball reasons would be a critique of Candace in some way, and that is not going to happen.

The last two items are NOT facts .... they are suppositions.

The committee does not vote players OFF the team, they vote players ON the team. Twelve players had more votes than Parker.

 

[CajunHusky]

You want to make an argument to replace Whalen or Bird, the only active healthy player who has such an argument in my mind is Vandersloot, and I will choose the experience over a slight edge in WNBA assists all the time.

You want to take Loyd or Sims, argue that they should replace DT.
You want to take CP, argue that Catchings should be dropped, but then you will have to ignore the WNBA history that says she has been able to 'will' her less talented Indiana team to multiple finals and championships including last year, than CP has been able to do with her great coach and talented LA roster.

Bird and Catchings had intangibles the others did not .....both were named Captains!
I think they really wanted to bring young guards onto the NT this year. But Diggins coming off the injury was not ready and CVS I thought would be there so I was disappointed when the NT was announced; but seeing CVS has missed significant time this season I got to wonder if she was 100%.

Also, I think there is a fair chance that Griner (knee) might note able to go (Parker as an alternate?)

 

[UcMiami]

Bird and Catchings had intangibles the others did not .....both were named Captains!
I think they really wanted to bring young guards onto the NT this year. But Diggins coming off the injury was not ready and CVS I thought would be there so I was disappointed when the NT was announced; but seeing CVS has missed significant time this season I got to wonder if she was 100%.

Also, I think there is a fair chance that Griner (knee) might note able to go (Parker as an alternate?)

Yes - absolutely, to the bolded section - Catching and Bird might not be quite the forces they were, but they have great experience and leadership that compensates for any slight decrease in ability due to age (and any decrease is I think highly debatable - they both continue to impress me on the court.)

I think from comments Carol made the first choice among new PGs was Robinson who then tore her achilles after the Feb trials - I think Sloot was healthy, she missed time the last few games due to an ankle sprain I think which is minor. For some reason they committee is just not convinced with her, and never seeing any extended NT practice with her it is difficult to know why - she is the type of pass first PG that fits the NT profile - ironically it may be an issue with her not taking her own shot often enough or maybe not asserting enough control on pace/play. The committee appears to follow foreign play a lot as well (where Robinson has come on strongly) and I don't know anything about her foreign play.

 

[Magy Cannon]

Cajunhusky wrote "Also, I think there is a fair chance that Griner (knee) might note able to go (Parker as an alternate?)"

I also think there is a chance Griner won't participate. Has Griner ever played USA basketball?

 

[Jmpenn]

If she's playing the 5 position, then her shooting percentage should be appreciably higher than other positions on the floor. That would suggest that she's getting a decent amount of "bunnies" that would elevate her shooting percentage. If putbacks or layups are a decent amount of her scoring, I'm inclined to think that would have an impact, right?

She is taking more 3s and jump shots than layups this season. She has been working on her 3 point shot.

 

[UcMiami]

Cajunhusky wrote "Also, I think there is a fair chance that Griner (knee) might note able to go (Parker as an alternate?)"

I also think there is a chance Griner won't participate. Has Griner ever played USA basketball?

Yes - she was on the WC winning team in 2014 - she declined an invite to the 2012 Olympic pool as she was just finishing college.

 

[lne001]

The last two items are NOT facts .... they are suppositions.

The committee does not vote players OFF the team, they vote players ON the team. Twelve players had more votes than Parker.

I am unable to entertain the notion that Geno truly wanted Parker on the squad, argued on her behalf, but that the committee said no, sorry Geno, we disagree. Ergo Geno must not have wanted her.

Also his decision was either personal or business, there is no third option I am aware of, which would make that a fact as well.

 

[CajunHusky]

I am unable to entertain the notion that Geno truly wanted Parker on the squad, argued on her behalf, but that the committee said no, sorry Geno, we disagree. Ergo Geno must not have wanted her.

Also his decision was either personal or business, there is no third option I am aware of, which would make that a fact as well.

How about CP posted a video immediately after her non-selection that many people saw as open hostility to the Olympic Coach ERGO she would've been a disruptive factor on the NT.

Neither your statement nor mine is a fact.... both are suppositions. The hallmark of a supposition is that other people may not agree with it - and they may be right. Both suppositions are compounded by them making a supposition based on the original supposition and then holding both out as facts.

It is also true that your first item - CP is one of the 5 best players in the world - is not a FACT but a subjective (bias) observation that any number of people may not agree.

The only fact in this whole thing is CP isn't on the Olympic team

 

[Mdoggie]

Attitude is everything.

 

[Icebear]

I am unable to entertain the notion that Geno truly wanted Parker on the squad, argued on her behalf, but that the committee said no, sorry Geno, we disagree. Ergo Geno must not have wanted her.

Also his decision was either personal or business, there is no third option I am aware of, which would make that a fact as well.

Had nothing to do with Geno. The committee has repeatedly made that clear.

 

[cbraarj]

Catchings and Bird both deserve to go out with this team.The same way Edwards and Leslie deserved to go out the last year they played for the NT.Just like Taurasi will in 2020.

 

[lne001]

Had nothing to do with Geno. The committee has repeatedly made that clear.

Assuming this is not sarcasm, everybody lies (courtesy of "House, MD"). The committee exists solely to provide Geno with plausible deniability and shield him from scrutiny. Which is exactly as it should be.

 

[CocoHusky]

She was not better than those chosen for the team last including the league MOP EDD.

So EDD WNBA MVP should be on the team and Candace's play this year and her former two time MVP should not be counted? What circular logic!

 

[CajunHusky]

Assuming this is not sarcasm, everybody lies (courtesy of "House, MD"). The committee exists solely to provide Geno with plausible deniability and shield him from scrutiny. Which is exactly as it should be.

Parsing all your posts, all the nice words aside and based on a string of suppositions, it is your argument that it was the Coach as a result of his personal animosity, hiding behind the cover of the committee, and with the committee's complicity, who kept CP off the Olympic team. Its deja vu all over again.

 

[CocoHusky]

Assuming this is not sarcasm, everybody lies (courtesy of "House, MD"). The committee exists solely to provide Geno with plausible deniability and shield him from scrutiny. Which is exactly as it should be.

Geno is not one to use or require a shield, regardless how readily available. The committee made this decision. By failing to explain the decision the committee has also victimized Geno. The joke is really on us because we are trying to justify the non-selection of Candace to this team by citing a CP game from 2012 Olympics. It not like CP has done anything since 2012, like winning an WNBA MVP. Oh that 2012 Australia team is going to be exactly the same in 2016 too. Lauren Jackson is probably working out right now!
So if Catch and sue are going to be the team Captains maybe they should have been the ones making the commercials to promote the Olympics instead of CP.