Old vs New

[DEpup]

You have to compare them at the same points in their career. Asking if I want third year pro Gabby or rising sophomore Aubrey is just silly.

Do you want freshman Gabby or freshman Aubrey?

At this point, that's all you can really compare and, on paper, they look fairly similar.

	Aubrey (2019-2020)	Gabby (2014-2015)
mpg	16.7	15.6
ppg	6.4	8.6
fg - %	74/144 - 51.4%	137/215 - 63.7%
3fg - %	1/10 - 10%	0/0 - 0%
ft - %	56/93 - 60.2%	41/91 - 46.1%
rpg	5.4	5.7
apg	1.03 (33)	1.3 (50)
spg	1.5 (48)	1.2 (46)
bpg	.5 (18)	.3 (14)
to	36	40

Really appreciate the data. I know I am really getting in the weeds but would love to know the distribution of those minutes by quarter.

I would venture that Aubrey had more minutes with the game in question while Gabby early years were in the shadow of Stewie, Mo, and Tuck where they would just demoralize opponents by half time and Gabby was playing more what we call garbage minutes than Aubrey.

Aubrey had to play a lot of 5/C minutes when Liv was in foul trouble.

 

[DEpup]

I just had a problem with someone referring to AG as Gabby 2.0. Not comparing freshman years. We have no idea if AG will live up to the hype. We know Gabby did.

I have tended to feel the same way often..I've now moved to a new way of thinking about it that keeps me calm.

When I think about Geno's offense and player archetypes, I see Aubrey as the next unique version of the undersized forward who is a really good perimeter defender and fearless around the basket amongst the trees but doesn't rely on the 3 to score.

For me I see this greater lineage of Elliot, Turner, Crockett, Greene, Faris, Gabby, Aubrey, and now Mir.

 

[JRRRJ]

Too soon to even have this conversation - maybe not even reasonable to compare the two. In addition to an unproven offense, Aubrey is no where near the rebounder Gabby was. Gabby excelled as an inside player. Aubrey is one of the best in college basketball disrupting guards and small forwards.

Below are the per-40-minute stats from both players' freshman years.

Aubrey played 535 minutes in 32 games, Gabby played 591 minutes in 38 games.

Aubrey is certainly "somewhere near" Gabby's numbers. And I watched her mix it up inside for many of those rebounds and blocks. Also note that Aubrey's numbers in the AACT tourney (after the @ signs) were a step up from the season averages, matching the impression I had of her play in the last half-dozen games of the season and leaving me to wonder where she would have been if the NCAAT had been played. The major difference between them is that Gabby shot more (14.5/40 vs. 10.8/40) and Aubrey took more 3-pt shots (which she missed 90% of ;^) and Gabby took one (which she missed).

Very much looking forward to see Aubrey play after a summer of hard work. Hoping it happens.

------------------------------------------ Aubrey ------------------------------ Gabby -------------

FG%	51.4 (74/144) @ 50.0	63.7 (137/215) @ 76.5
FT%	60.2 (56/93) @ 65.0	46.2 (42/91) @ 57.1
RB	12.86 @ 19.29	14.75 @ 13.33
Fouls	2.47 @ 1.43	3.11 @ 3.33
Asst	2.47 @ 2.86	3.38 @ 2.50
TO	2.69 @ 2.14	2.71 @ 1.67
A/TO	0.92 @1.33	1.25 @ 1.5
Blocks	1.35 @ 2.14	0.95 @ 0.0
Steals	3.59 @ 3.57	3.11 @ 1.67
Points	15.33 @ 19.29	21.39 @ 25

 

[Deuce]

I'm going with Aubrey, He has more potential. Confidence issues don't plague Aubrey as they hampered Gabby. "He told me that the only person that holds me back is myself, and if I can have confidence in what I do I'll be fine." Gabby Williams on Geno Auriemma's parting words to her when she left UConn.

Lol yes as a National Defensive POTY, All-American and 2x conference defensive player of the year. No contest whatsoever not on Aubreys best day and Gabbys worse

 

[Geew1992]

Below are the per-40-minute stats from both players' freshman years.

Aubrey played 535 minutes in 32 games, Gabby played 591 minutes in 38 games.

Aubrey is certainly "somewhere near" Gabby's numbers. And I watched her mix it up inside for many of those rebounds and blocks. Also note that Aubrey's numbers in the AACT tourney (after the @ signs) were a step up from the season averages, matching the impression I had of her play in the last half-dozen games of the season and leaving me to wonder where she would have been if the NCAAT had been played. The major difference between them is that Gabby shot more (14.5/40 vs. 10.8/40) and Aubrey took more 3-pt shots (which she missed 90% of ;^) and Gabby took one (which she missed).

Very much looking forward to see Aubrey play after a summer of hard work. Hoping it happens.

------------------------------------------ Aubrey ------------------------------ Gabby -------------

FG%	51.4 (74/144) @ 50.0	63.7 (137/215) @ 76.5
FT%	60.2 (56/93) @ 65.0	46.2 (42/91) @ 57.1
RB	12.86 @ 19.29	14.75 @ 13.33
Fouls	2.47 @ 1.43	3.11 @ 3.33
Asst	2.47 @ 2.86	3.38 @ 2.50
TO	2.69 @ 2.14	2.71 @ 1.67
A/TO	0.92 @1.33	1.25 @ 1.5
Blocks	1.35 @ 2.14	0.95 @ 0.0
Steals	3.59 @ 3.57	3.11 @ 1.67
Points	15.33 @ 19.29	21.39 @ 25

Does gabbys info include the NCAA tournament? I think that needs to be deducted since there was no 2020 tournament

 

[hoophuskee]

I think Hopjim's 1st post and meyers post nailed it. And MDoggie questioning it is nailing it too. I can recall the comparisons between Dangerfield and MoJeff. That Danger was better as a frosh. For me, I got to see Griff take to the elite teams. Until then she is not Gabby.

 

[Dokey]

Let’s just hope for Aubrey point 1.0

 

[Alydar]

Griffin may be taller, but I remember Gabby completely neutralizing Aja Wilson when she played against her.

As a freshman against S Carolina Williams played 4 minutes and had 1 point. And we are comparing freshman years right? Wilson played 22 minutes and had 10/6.

 

[Alydar]

I just had a problem with someone referring to AG as Gabby 2.0. Not comparing freshman years. We have no idea if AG will live up to the hype. We know Gabby did.

Gabby came in with zero hype. She hardly played in her last 2 years of HS and other than a few UConn fans she was ignored and ranked way down the lists except for Brent McCormack.

 

[hoophuskee]

As a freshman against S Carolina Williams played 4 minutes and had 1 point. And we are comparing freshman years right? Wilson played 22 minutes and had 10/6.

And in 2016-17 Gabby shot 10-19 from the floor had 26 points and 14 rebounds. While Jones shot 5-12 from the floor had 17 points and 5 rebounds. Gabby in a wipeout against a 1st team A/A.

I'm excited about Griff and I get trying to compare but for me until she shows she can be a scorer while scoring efficiently there is little to compare. Unless you can tell me without a doubt with some type of evidence that she can be the scorer that Gabby was. Gabby was able to transform her game to becoming a good scorer and an efficient scorer vs elite teams. Until griff shows she cna score and efficiently- elite teams I don't see her as Gabby. There is a big difference between 63.7% vs 51.4%.

IMO huge style difference in the 2. Gabby had low post moves as a frosh. Also while others point out Griff played much more when the game was on the line- that's true. But it also meant she was playing with the best players early on in games in which her teammates can more easily "make her better." For example, UCONN would look to push the ball when Griff was in. They'd press, trap, run anything to speed up the game. With Gabby - the games were blowouts so by that time, UCONN would no longer look to push tempo much which would've helped Gabby pile on some additional stats too.

 

[hoophuskee]

Gabby came in with zero hype. She hardly played in her last 2 years of HS and other than a few UConn fans she was ignored and ranked way down the lists except for Brent McCormack.

I'm not sure how we define "hype" in terms of relevance. But wasn't Gabby though of as a top 15 recruit while Griff was more like 20?

I seem to also recall Gabby being ranked number 7 by one service but could be wrong about that. But Hopgrulz had Gabby at 14.

 

[Alydar]

And in 2016-17 Gabby shot 10-19 from the floor had 26 points and 14 rebounds. While Jones shot 5-12 from the floor had 17 points and 5 rebounds. Gabby in a wipeout against a 1st team A/A.

I'm excited about Griff and I get trying to compare but for me until she shows she can be a scorer while scoring efficiently there is little to compare. Unless you can tell me without a doubt with some type of evidence that she can be the scorer that Gabby was. Gabby was able to transform her game to becoming a good scorer and an efficient scorer vs elite teams. Until griff shows she cna score and efficiently- elite teams I don't see her as Gabby. There is a big difference between 63.7% vs 51.4%.

IMO huge style difference in the 2. Gabby had low post moves as a frosh. Also while others point out Griff played much more when the game was on the line- that's true. But it also meant she was playing with the best players early on in games in which her teammates can more easily "make her better." For example, UCONN would look to push the ball when Griff was in. They'd press, trap, run anything to speed up the game. With Gabby - the games were blowouts so by that time, UCONN would no longer look to push tempo much which would've helped Gabby pile on some additional stats too.

I have always been a big Williams fan. I just think it's totally unfair and ridiculous to compare players of different eras unless it's done with fair and equal measurements. And comparing their freshman seasons it's clear that they had comparable stats. If you want to use Williams' stats from 2016-17 then it's only fair you wait till after Griffin's junior season.

 

[msf22b]

My thread of support for Gaby's early season heroics
seems to have been the kiss of death...
and I'm really sorry to have to say this.

Gabby's contributions have been pretty meager of late
and Moriah (my other fav) seems to have not recovered from the
mauling she took earlier in the season.

Too, too bad...
Bria, though, is thriving...
Shut up Michael!

 

[MSGRET]

You also have to take into account that Gabby was playing with players that had a lot more experience and were the main focus of the other teams during her freshman year. Unlike Grif who didn't have the likes of Stewie, MoJeff, KML, Stokes, and even Nurse. No one on last year's team comes close to them.

 

[Mdoggie]

I have always been a big Williams fan. I just think it's totally unfair and ridiculous to compare players of different eras unless it's done with fair and equal measurements. And comparing their freshman seasons it's clear that they had comparable stats. If you want to use Williams' stats from 2016-17 then it's only fair you wait till after Griffin's junior season.

Correct. So........ WAIT before you call someone 2.0! That’s my point. We are so quick to “name the next”

 

[hoophuskee]

I have always been a big Williams fan. I just think it's totally unfair and ridiculous to compare players of different eras unless it's done with fair and equal measurements. And comparing their freshman seasons it's clear that they had comparable stats. If you want to use Williams' stats from 2016-17 then it's only fair you wait till after Griffin's junior season.

When someone is shooting 63.7% - you can look into possibilities if that player can be a go-to type player down the road. Where is Griff showing at this moment she can be a go-to type player? There's a big difference between 63.7% and 51.4%. The game in her junior year showed what she can become because she showed how efficient she was as a frosh. I'd like to see her be super efficient then I can envision she can be a beast like Gabby was. Let's see this year. But right now- imo not comparable.

 

[Alydar]

When someone is shooting 63.7% - you can look into possibilities if that player can be a go-to type player down the road. Where is Griff showing at this moment she can be a go-to type player? There's a big difference between 63.7% and 51.4%. The game in her junior year showed what she can become because she showed how efficient she was as a frosh. I'd like to see her be super efficient then I can envision she can be a beast like Gabby was. Let's see this year. But right now- imo not comparable.

So why did Williams say that her one regret from her 1st year was that she didn't give the coaches more of a reason to play her? And they didn't play her much except in blowout games. Last season UConn didn't have many blowout games until the AAC tournament. Now one can point out that Williams had a ton of talent in front of her but that also had a lot to do with her shooting over 60%. She was the one being left alone as defenses helped out with the 3 AA's.

At this point comparisons should be limited to their freshman seasons.

 

[hoophuskee]

(1) So why did Williams say that her one regret from her 1st year was that she didn't give the coaches more of a reason to play her? (2, 5, 6) And they didn't play her much except in blowout games. (3, 6) Last season UConn didn't have many blowout games until the AAC tournament. (7) Now one can point out that Williams had a ton of talent in front of her but that also had a lot to do with her shooting over 60%. (4, 5) She was the one being left alone as defenses helped out with the 3 AA's.

At this point comparisons should be limited to their freshman seasons.

1-- What does Williams quote regarding regret have to do with anything? You think the frosh Griffin would break into those super great lineups? I just don't understand what you are trying to suggest.

2-- Yes – but if we say "she didn't play much until it was a blowout" then it would mean that she wasn't playing with the super players that would have supposedly made her "wide open." And if she was playing with the super players and she is planted inside with one defender on her it means the others on perimeter moving without the ball makes it brutally hard to double. So, if Gabby is playing with them it means it’s not only blowouts (or very, very few minutes with the stars) but when game is still undecided. And Gabby’s defender isn’t going to deliberately leave her open to shoot uncontested 3 foot shots. And because the Gabby's frosh and Soph teams were more efficient – it means less chance for shots but less chance for OREBS. So, in summary, which is it? Is she playing with the super players (non-blowouts), or is she playing in blowouts mostly with “Pulido and Lawlor?” IMO she was mostly playing with Stokes and Chong- thus she wasn’t really being “left alone” anyhow.

3-- And speaking of last season-- UCONN only had one player that could legitimately score with low post moves (please let’s not include Walker as a low post player). Put frosh Gabby on this past team-- she would've been able to provide low post offense that Griff could not achieve. Ergo 63.7% vs 51.4%. I will say however, Griff's quickness is unmatched. And I’m not saying Gabby was going to lead the team to a ff/title or was “overall better.” BUT she is a much better alternative to Griff when it comes to low post moves frosh vs frosh which is why they are not comparable other than to say they shouldn’t be compared. One frosh doesn’t have any legit inside moves.

4-- And as mentioned before it's a myth that Gabby was "left alone." You don't leave players alone (even Griff) when they are 6 feet away or closer from the basket.

5-- We can't have it both ways here. State Gabby is playing with the super players then say she only came in in blowouts. Sure minimal minutes she played with the super players. But you don’t leave players "wide open" for layups intentionally. It's not like Stewie and Tuck and Lewis and MoJeff were half court slashers just so easily giving Gabby layup after layup. Then why couldn’t Stokes shoot better and score more than Gabby while averaging more minutes? Kia would’ve played with the starters more.

6-- And a mentioned previously if Gabby was only playing in blowouts it means her team slowed down the pace. Griff had the fortune of closer games thus the UCONN team looking to push more thus giving her more opportunities for easy fastbreak baskets or better chances for offensive rebounds.

7-- Gabby had actual low post moves as a frosh-- Griff did not. That's also why she shot 63.7%. This is why the fg% numbers means a lot and why the game in her junior year vs Wilson is something we can use in these discussions. The 63.7% showed she was "capable." Right now Griff does not show as being capable of being a scorer inside. She can "score" on occasion but a huge difference between someone who can score and someone who can be a scorer. IMO they are not comparable. Gabby as a frosh could have been projected as someone who could use her POWER/PHYSICALITY to become a scorer inside. This is not Griff. Griff is more about her supreme quickness and she is what? – 3 inches taller with longer arms?

 

[Alydar]

When Williams was a freshman no one except her fans (myself included) projected her as an AA based on what she did on the court. Her fans pointed to her athleticism and saw greatness in her future.
Now we have Griffin. No one, except her fans (myself included) projects her as an AA. We point to her athleticism and see greatness in her future. You can quibble over stats but the freshman stats and talent of the two are very comparable.

 

[Mdoggie]

Ok, I started this thread because someone referred to Aubrey as Gabby 2.0 as if to claim she is or will be a better version of Gabby. All I am trying to say is, we should not say someone is a better version of someone who is proven before the “new version” as done something. Like I once read “ potential means you haven’t done sh$& yet!.
Did we call Maya, D 2.0? Stewie, D or Maya 2.0? And are we calling Paige, Stewie 2.0?

 

[hoophuskee]

When Williams was a freshman no one except her fans (myself included) projected her as an AA based on what she did on the court. Her fans pointed to her athleticism and saw greatness in her future.
Now we have Griffin. No one, except her fans (myself included) projects her as an AA. We point to her athleticism and see greatness in her future. You can quibble over stats but the freshman stats and talent of the two are very comparable.

I find the fg% stat in this case to be important. Gabby established a way she could score offensively as a frosh. I do think Griff can become an A/A but until she shows an ability to makes moves and score with her back to the basket -- it will have to be different. She hasn't shown any back-to-the-basket skills which Gabby showed. It's not like we should be expecting Tina Charles from either. But I can recall overall Gabby showing power inside..

IMO these two are as different as when Swin Cash, Tamika Williams, and Asjha Jones came aboard. All three were athletic too but different types of athletes just as Griff is. These three were not comparable in their styles and neither is Gabby to Griff until Griff can show she has low post moves. Gabby showed it her frosh year. A defining style in Gabby was her "ruggedness." That's not Griff AT ALL.

If you want to claim they comparable frosh-to-frosh because 1- they are athletic, 2- they played pf, 3- and someday they might be all-american -- okay but imo that type of comparison is too broad. It's like comparing Cash, Williams, and Jones when in fact they were very different. . But if that makes you think they are comparable -- great. Not for me.