NY Times article links to the Boneyard

[HuskyNan]

Hiya, Jere, I enjoy your writing

UConn Pledge article, NY Times

 

[Vowelguy]

Balanced, well written article -- as one would expect from the NYT.

Doesnt change my opinion, but nice to understand the various views better.

 

[UConnCat]

Not sure about this comment:

Mike Enright, a UConn spokesman, said the university, which has played top-flight football for only about a decade, was also looking to emulate other universities in establishing a tradition. Ohio State, for instance, is known for dotting the “i” by its band in a script Ohio formation.

“We just don’t have a lot of traditions,” Enright said. “This is a chance for us to say, ‘At UConn, they have the Pledge of Allegiance.’ ”

So there...

 

[meyers7]

Geez they didn't interview me.

But on a more problematic note another supposedly "educated" person making a stupid statement.

Douglas Laycock, a professor at the University of Virginia School of Law and an authority on the law of religious liberty, said UConn’s policy was “problematic but probably entirely legal” as long as the pledge remained voluntary.
“The concern is the university asking fans for a brief affirmation of faith, acknowledging one nation under God,” Laycock said in a telephone interview.

It is a pledge to the FLAG and to the REPUBLIC not to any god. No one's affirming any faith. People seem to have no problem with the "liberty and justice for all". (as if that were true.)

When I was younger we used to say a Pledge of Allegiance to the Christian Flag (can't remember exactly how it went - seems there are a few different versions). Now that was a pledge or affirmation of faith.

 

[alexrgct]

Not sure about this comment:

Mike Enright, a UConn spokesman, said the university, which has played top-flight football for only about a decade, was also looking to emulate other universities in establishing a tradition. Ohio State, for instance, is known for dotting the “i” by its band in a script Ohio formation.

“We just don’t have a lot of traditions,” Enright said. “This is a chance for us to say, ‘At UConn, they have the Pledge of Allegiance.’ ”

So there...

Yeah, I had the same reaction. Script Ohio is a totally apolitical/aphilosophical tradition, and like most great traditions, it's something that kind of developed organically with a lot of lore and debate around its true origins.

In fact, I'd be hard-pressed to think of any greate collegiate sports tradition that was top down in origin, with the athletic department brass saying, "Hey we need something distinctive to our programs! Let's do [fill in tradition here]." Not saying there aren't any, but I can't think of one.

 

[Vowelguy]

It is a pledge to the FLAG and to the REPUBLIC not to any god. No one's affirming any faith.

The pledge refers to God. Hence you are acknowledging a belief in God.

 

[HuskyNan]

Geez they didn't interview me.

But on a more problematic note another supposedly "educated" person making a stupid statement.

I would like to add my voice to Biff's in asking you to avoid making derogatory comments towards people that feel differently than you. Some of your more recent posts on this topic don't have your usually reasonable tone.

 

[HuskyNan]

It is a pledge to the FLAG and to the REPUBLIC not to any god. No one's affirming any faith.

I posted this in the other thread. It's a quote by then-President Eisenhower on adding the "under God" phrase to the pledge:

Three days later, Senator Homer Ferguson, (R-MI), sponsored a bill to add God to the Pledge. It was approved as a joint resolution 1954-JUN-8. It was signed into law on Flag Day, JUN-14. President Eisenhower said at the time:​

"From this day forward, the millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty."​

Affirming faith in God was the exact reason the phrase was added.

 

[ThisJustIn]

I posted this in the other thread. It's a quote by then-President Eisenhower on adding the "under God" phrase to the pledge:

Three days later, Senator Homer Ferguson, (R-MI), sponsored a bill to add God to the Pledge. It was approved as a joint resolution 1954-JUN-8. It was signed into law on Flag Day, JUN-14. President Eisenhower said at the time:​

"From this day forward, the millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty."​

Affirming faith in God was the exact reason the phrase was added.

As a counter to, IRCC, those godless Communists.

 

[Icebear]

As a counter to, IRCC, those godless Communists.

Specifically and precisely.

 

[Kibitzer]

As much as I like and admire Geno, the photo in the NY Times of him with his hand on his heart bears no resemblance to the pose he struck for many years during the National Anthem.

 

[speedoo]

Not sure about this comment:

Mike Enright, a UConn spokesman, said the university, which has played top-flight football for only about a decade, was also looking to emulate other universities in establishing a tradition. Ohio State, for instance, is known for dotting the “i” by its band in a script Ohio formation.

“We just don’t have a lot of traditions,” Enright said. “This is a chance for us to say, ‘At UConn, they have the Pledge of Allegiance.’ ”

So there...

Seems to me that whenever there are various reasons for doing something, instead of a single compelling reason, it probably should not be done.

 

[ThisJustIn]

But, sir Kib, seems to me that's the difference between the National Anthem and the Pledge. A pledge, per se, intimates a swearing to of some sort -- hence the hand over heart. The NA can inspire some, but it's a song, not a pledge. So, perhaps that indicates the different attitudes.

 

[HuskyNan]

As a counter to, IRCC, those godless Communists.

Here's the entire quote in context:

In 1953, the Roman Catholic men's group, the Knights of Columbus mounted a campaign to add the words "under God" to the Pledge. The nation was suffering through the height of the cold war, and the McCarthy communist witch hunt. Partly in reaction to these factors, a reported 15 resolutions were initiated in Congress to change the pledge. They got nowhere until Rev. George Docherty (1911 - 2008) preached a sermon that was attended by President Eisenhower and the national press corps on 1954-FEB-7. His sermon said in part:

"Apart from the mention of the phrase 'the United States of America,' it could be the pledge of any republic. In fact, I could hear little Muscovites repeat a similar pledge to their hammer-and-sickle flag in Moscow."​

After the service, President Eisenhower said that he agreed with the sermon. In the following weeks, the news spread, and public opinion grew. Three days later, Senator Homer Ferguson, (R-MI), sponsored a bill to add God to the Pledge. It was approved as a joint resolution 1954-JUN-8. It was signed into law on Flag Day, JUN-14. President Eisenhower said at the time:

"From this day forward, the millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty."​

 

[MilfordHusky]

The Philadelphia Flyers won 2 Stanley Cups in the early 1970s with a moderately skilled but tough bunch and a great goaltender. For some reason, they substituted God Bless America for the Star Spangled Banner on occasion. As it evolved, they seemed to win almost every time they used the alternate anthem. It took on a life of its own, with the Kate Smith recording being used in important games. In the Cup finals, Kate appeared in person and brought the house down. No way the Flyers were going to lose that game. I am not sure of the genesis, but the Flyers developed a great tradition.

 

[Kibitzer]

But, sir Kib, seems to me that's the difference between the National Anthem and the Pledge. A pledge, per se, intimates a swearing to of some sort -- hence the hand over heart. The NA can inspire some, but it's a song, not a pledge. So, perhaps that indicates the different attitudes.

Nice try, but at the Stanford game Geno, the other coaches and all the players appropriately respected Old Glory during the National Anthem. I just assume the NY Times photo related to the recitation of the Pledge.

The tradition I like to watch is when the player at the end of the bench gives all the other subs high fives with both hands when a teammate on the court drills a trey. The Pledge may yet become a contrived tradition, totally lacking in spontaneity.

 

[meyers7]

Affirming faith in God was the exact reason the phrase was added.

But it doesn't. It just doesn't.

Ughhh this is frustrating.

 

[meyers7]

The pledge refers to God. Hence you are acknowledging a belief in God.

No more than a belief in an indivisable union, or liberty and justice for all. And no one is naive enough to believe that.

 

[meyers7]

I would like to add my voice to Biff's in asking you to avoid making derogatory comments towards people that feel differently than you. Some of your more recent posts on this topic don't have your usually reasonable tone.

It's not toward people who feel differently than me. It's to people who make stupid comments.

And I am being EXTREMELY reasonable.

 

[Icebear]

It's not toward people who feel differently than me. It's to people who make stupid comments.

And I am being EXTREMELY reasonable.

Not really when you are rejecting the very purpose stated by those who campaigned (Knights of Columbus) for its inclusion and deny that it is specifically the Christian God they had in mind. What is illogical is to expect the Roman Catholic Church to have campaigned any god other than God as they confess. Sen. Joe McCarthy was Roman Catholic and a member of the Knights of Columbus.

 

[ThisJustIn]

Well, I don't believe in God, meyers, and to me, adding "God" makes the pledge an implicit and explicit statement of belief in something I don't believe in.

Sometimes I say just the non-God section. But, I'm old enough to have thought through the process and am willing to take the dirty looks (or being called a wacko) from those who notice my non-compliance or object to my objections. Not so easy if you're a youngster.

 

[ctchamps]

As a counter to, IRCC, those godless Communists.

Amen to that Brother!

 

[Kibitzer]

Amen to that Brother!

Fine sentiments but addressed inaccurately. TJI is not considered one of the brethren. More like one of the sisterhood.

 

[ctchamps]

The interesting conclusion I get from this board and the football board, which also discussed this issue, is that everyone has one common belief. That belief is that our personal conclusion, whatever that might be, is sacrosanct. The best we can get is "I'll accommodate your opinion, but you are wrong".

It seems like we acknowledge multiple gods. I came to this conclusion because of the way we argue our points of view. These arguments have led me to believe we are all claiming to be "G-d" even if we don't believe in one. And whether we admit it or not, those of us who believe in a Deity struggle to disassociate the I from that Being. Since none of us agrees with anyone else about everything that exists, the only conclusion seems that there are multiple gods. This explains why we have a "Jewish God", a "Christian God" a "Muslim God" and so on.

Now there are some gods with more power and some with less. But it appears to me we are all gods in our own minds whether we admit it or not.

This particular god, believes there is a Divine Power. I just have my own opinions about this Being. And the best I can say about all the rest of you is you all seem nice but are out of touch with my reality.

 

[ctchamps]

Fine sentiments but addressed inaccurately. TJI is not considered one of the brethren. More like one of the sisterhood.

I honestly didn't know but considered it. This Justin vs. This Just In. Still Amen Brother creates a picture that Amen Sister doesn't quite fit the bill.