Notre Dame @ Boston College - 1/07/21

[Shades]

Chestnut Hill, MA - 8:00 PM ET
TV: ACC Network (Jenn Hildreth, Debbie Antonelli)

Video stream:
Notre Dame vs. Boston College (W Basketball) | Watch ESPN (tvpli)

Audio:

https://www.radio.com/notredamewomensbasketball/listen?utm_source=All&utm_campaign=Notre%20Dame&utm_medium=NCAA%20Basketball&_branch_match_id=634511295895110555

Live stats:

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bceagles.com

 

[DefenseBB]

Wow, ND not getting early voter love here on the BY...

 

[Dillon77]

Wow, ND not getting early voter love here on the BY...

Whoa, that's for sure...but given how their games went in the beginning, I can understand that reaction!

Coach Niele said that she needed to get all of her players back (Brunelle, Gilbert, Vaughn) and see how they were doing individually and collectively in order to set a proper rotation. That's starting to happen: ND has won two in a row and three of the last four in the ACC.

It certainly hasn't always been pretty, but Irish fans have started to see different players step up during the game (it's not all Maddy Westbeld now), including Destinee Walker, Dara Mabrey, Sam Brunelle and Mik Vaughn. Anaya Peoples has been doing her usualy bit of everything and Abby Prohaska adds grit and floorburns, while taking charges (we fans love her )

ND lost to BC twice last year, the second on a last-second pass and layup. Leading scorer Taylor Soule has good games against the Irish, so a lot of focus on her. Emma Guy (who scored that layup) is no longer there, so the Irish could (should?) have some success down low. I'd look for some early focus on getting the ball to Mik Vaughn and/or Maddy Westbeld.

Should be tight. BC badly needs an ACC win (they've had the unfortunate luck of playing NC State twice already) and ND is on a bit of a roll. And guess what...both teams do it again in 10 days in South Bend.

 

[Dillon77]

Nice ball movement and cutting to the basket by ND. Prime recipient of this is Mik Vaughn.
Destinee Walker, off the bench, keeping BC honest with mid-range. Soule single-handedly keeping BC within 10 at half.

 

[triaddukefan]

BC has been such a disappointment so far this season.

 

[triaddukefan]

BC has been such a disappointment so far this season.

but not tonight

Down 14 with a little over 5 minutes to play... the eagles win 64-61

 

[Plebe]

but not tonight

Down 14 with a little over 5 minutes to play... the eagles win 64-61

 

[Rb335]

Tuned in when BC was down 12 with about 2:30 to play. They went on an 8-0 run in about 30 seconds and completely frazzled ND. A complete meltdown by the Irish in the final minutes.

 

[LETTERL]

Think I'll mosey on over to McGraw's Bench for a few.

 

[SECbbfan24]

 

[Dillon77]

I have a long-standing self-rule of not commenting on losses that take place at night (late afternoon, even) until the next day. Get the emotion out of the way. But since I made a pre-game post, I feel I owe a post-game follow-up (darn it )

That said....AHHHHHH ? (I really need that one!).

Outscored 16-1 to end the game. They had broken the press in the first half with relative ease. And in the third quarter they got to the line and sunk free throws. So, in the last four minutes:

• all four Irish come to get the ball, congesting the whole damn place, rather than space out and move the ball via pas.
• Irish got passive on offense and started whatever they were running waay to late. Dribble, dribble, dribble (etc) to quote one of the posts on the Bench from last night.
• That said, the Irish seemed tentative to make a pass to the few cutters that were open.
• Maddy Westbeld got only 8 shots, despite the fact that BC's starting center was out and she was matched up against guards or a 17-year-old one week removed from high school. And, oh yes, BC was over the limit. Pass into Westbeld and get out of the way. (the last shot was too congested).

Growing pains for team and coach. But still....arrghh.

(BTW, I've gotta give the BC coach kudos for what she's doing there....they play hard in every game I see. Really active hands placed at the right height.)

 

[Shades]

 

[donalddoowop]

I don't like to watch games when ND wins so, even though I recorded the game I have not watched it and was going to delete it. I am just now finding out they lost. I will enjoy watching it now. Thanks for the info.

 

[Shades]

 

[ConnecticutBB]

Any link for the post game presser with Niele Ivey comments?

 

[RockyMTblue2]

If the presser is out there, it's hiding.

Here is a game write up:

InsideNDSports - Notre Dame Women’s Basketball Has Epic Collapse At Boston College

The Eagles outscored the Fighting Irish 16-1 in the final 2:35 for 64-61 win.

notredame.rivals.com

 

[topogigio]

MM must have really seen the writing on the wall with this team. I thought last year was an anomaly, and was surprised at her resignation. It is actually difficult to lose a lead like they did with less than 3 minutes to play. However, after sitting through the Final Four for the "miracle shots", I do attest to a bit of joy in the Irish losses.

 

[eebmg]

I have a long-standing self-rule of not commenting on losses that take place at night (late afternoon, even) until the next day. Get the emotion out of the way. But since I made a pre-game post, I feel I owe a post-game follow-up (darn it )

That said....AHHHHHH ? (I really need that one!).

Outscored 16-1 to end the game. They had broken the press in the first half with relative ease. And in the third quarter they got to the line and sunk free throws. So, in the last four minutes:

• all four Irish come to get the ball, congesting the whole damn place, rather than space out and move the ball via pas.
• Irish got passive on offense and started whatever they were running waay to late. Dribble, dribble, dribble (etc) to quote one of the posts on the Bench from last night.
• That said, the Irish seemed tentative to make a pass to the few cutters that were open.
• Maddy Westbeld got only 8 shots, despite the fact that BC's starting center was out and she was matched up against guards or a 17-year-old one week removed from high school. And, oh yes, BC was over the limit. Pass into Westbeld and get out of the way. (the last shot was too congested).

Growing pains for team and coach. But still....arrghh.

(BTW, I've gotta give the BC coach kudos for what she's doing there....they play hard in every game I see. Really active hands placed at the right height.)

Worth the wait.

 

[bballnut90]

MM must have really seen the writing on the wall with this team. I thought last year was an anomaly, and was surprised at her resignation. It is actually difficult to lose a lead like they did with less than 3 minutes to play. However, after sitting through the Final Four for the "miracle shots", I do attest to a bit of joy in the Irish losses.

I think the writing was on the wall when Notre Dame missed on both Walker/Westbrook. They had recruited phenomenally from 2009-2016, routinely landing really 1-2 top 20 players and several top 5 kids, but after striking out in 2017 and not landing any big names in 2018, they were left with a barren cupboard and no proven underclassmen ready to take on bigger roles after their 2019 class departed. None of the 2019-20 returnees were contributors prior to last season so it was essentially a brand new, inexperienced and much less talented and roster for Muffet and we saw how disastrous that was.

In her defense, the original 2019 graduating class was going to be just Arike and Mabrey, but Turner's ACL gave her an extra year, Shepard transferred in and famously became eligible a year earlier than expected, and Young declared early which meant all 5 starters were gone. The other 2016 recruit, Boley, had transferred out and Muffet was left with a roster of players who never played long or meaningful minutes. Im guessing Muffet originally anticipated that she'd have Shepard and Young on board for 2019-20, plus a more experienced Kaitlyn Gilbert and Jordan Nixon. Had that panned out as planned, it would've been a much different season for ND in 2019-20.

Worth noting, "go big or go home" classes that have 5 senior starters create massive voids that can incite growing pains the following season, or can even completely derail a program. We saw this with LSU in 2008, where they made 5 straight Final Fours from 2004-2008 but haven't been close to getting back there since. Tennessee also graduated 5 starters in 2008 which in conjunction with injuries led to Pat's worst season of all time in 2009, although they bounced back well in 2010 despite not being at the same level they were in 2005-2008. Oregon has avoided a bad season despite losing their 4 best starters from a year ago and has looked really solid this year despite having a brand new roster. They have a couple of impact returnees back though between Boley/Chavez.

Last year we saw ND get completely derailed,, and this year ND is still somewhat of a mess between injuries, covid, and transfers. There isn't a cohesive returning core to build the team around like there always was during Muffet's era. I think if they can stay healthy, they'll be much better in 2021-22 since they're young, talented, and have another good class coming in, but obviously that remains to be seen.

 

[Dillon77]

I think the writing was on the wall when Notre Dame missed on both Walker/Westbrook. They had recruited phenomenally from 2009-2016, routinely landing really 1-2 top 20 players and several top 5 kids, but after striking out in 2017 and not landing any big names in 2018, they were left with a barren cupboard and no proven underclassmen ready to take on bigger roles after their 2019 class departed. None of the 2019-20 returnees were contributors prior to last season so it was essentially a brand new, inexperienced and much less talented and roster for Muffet and we saw how disastrous that was.

In her defense, the original 2019 graduating class was going to be just Arike and Mabrey, but Turner's ACL gave her an extra year, Shepard transferred in and famously became eligible a year earlier than expected, and Young declared early which meant all 5 starters were gone. The other 2016 recruit, Boley, had transferred out and Muffet was left with a roster of players who never played long or meaningful minutes. Im guessing Muffet originally anticipated that she'd have Shepard and Young on board for 2019-20, plus a more experienced Kaitlyn Gilbert and Jordan Nixon. Had that panned out as planned, it would've been a much different season for ND in 2019-20.

Worth noting, "go big or go home" classes that have 5 senior starters create massive voids that can incite growing pains the following season, or can even completely derail a program. We saw this with LSU in 2008, where they made 5 straight Final Fours from 2004-2008 but haven't been close to getting back there since. Tennessee also graduated 5 starters in 2008 which in conjunction with injuries led to Pat's worst season of all time in 2009, although they bounced back well in 2010 despite not being at the same level they were in 2005-2008. Oregon has avoided a bad season despite losing their 4 best starters from a year ago and has looked really solid this year despite having a brand new roster. They have a couple of impact returnees back though between Boley/Chavez.

Last year we saw ND get completely derailed,, and this year ND is still somewhat of a mess between injuries, covid, and transfers. There isn't a cohesive returning core to build the team around like there always was during Muffet's era. I think if they can stay healthy, they'll be much better in 2021-22 since they're young, talented, and have another good class coming in, but obviously that remains to be seen.

Well summarized, bballnut. ??

I'll add one note: Ali Patberg's injuries/illnesses and subsquent leaving set the whole PG mess into motion and that's still evident today. If she had "just" the ACL (and not contracted mono when she came back), maybe Lili Thompson isn't brought in as "back-up." That, of course, blew up when Patberg transferred and Thompson was injured. (Ironically, the rotating lead-guard approach with Mabrey and Young was the one that led to the national title games, but -- given that five or the six starters over two years are in the WNBA -- those were top-level talents at the guards and, well, the whole team.)

MM and Niele recruited well with Patberg and she could've been a steady presence. ND is on their third year of a different approach to the "lead" guard and it shows.

I think they'll be better in 2021-22 for all the reasons you cite, plus the fact that Olivia Miles can add talent and stablility to a key position.

 

[DefenseBB]

I though the 3rd Hayes sister was supposed to be a point guard and of course Mabrey3 is trying to rebrand as a PG with limited success. I do think stability at point would help but as you noted, the current lack of quality upper classman and underperforming sophomore will not cure the ND ills in 2021-22.
Add in how well does Ivey improve in her actual coaching is a third component.

Frankly, I Hope UConn tales note of this Ivey situation to realize that you really need prior Head coaching experience for a job at a perennial power.

 

[UConnCat]

In her defense, the original 2019 graduating class was going to be just Arike and Mabrey, but Turner's ACL gave her an extra year, Shepard transferred in and famously became eligible a year earlier than expected, and Young declared early which meant all 5 starters were gone. The other 2016 recruit, Boley, had transferred out and Muffet was left with a roster of players who never played long or meaningful minutes. Im guessing Muffet originally anticipated that she'd have Shepard and Young on board for 2019-20, plus a more experienced Kaitlyn Gilbert and Jordan Nixon. Had that panned out as planned, it would've been a much different season for ND in 2019-20.

Your post almost makes it sound like Shepard's eligibility for the 2017-2018 season just dropped in Muffet's lap. With Turner out for the season, Muffet and Notre Dame pushed very hard for Shepard's eligibility and while they and the rest of WCBB may have expressed surprised by the NCAA's decision, the goal when she was brought in was to get her eligible immediately. So no, Muffet was not thinking about 2019-2020 when she brought Shepard on board.

The most surprising thing to me was Muffet's failure to capitalize on her team's FF run in 2018 with great recruiting classes. That championship was probably the most exciting ever and earned her and her team a ton of media attention. The 2019 and 2020 recruiting classes are good but not great.

 

[UConnCat]

Frankly, I Hope UConn tales note of this Ivey situation to realize that you really need prior Head coaching experience for a job at a perennial power.

Yeah, no.

 

[DefenseBB]

...The most surprising thing to me was Muffet's failure to capitalize on her team's FF run in 2018 with great recruiting classes. That championship was probably the most exciting ever and earned her and her team a ton of media attention. The 2019 and 2020 recruiting classes are good but not great.

For the most part MM failed to capitalize as her style was/is grating even on her own players, never mind the viewing public. Her plethora of top transfers out these past few years was a tad shocking to me considering at least half were getting playing time.
The 2019 class was headlined by Sam Brunelle, who thus far in her 1.5 years of a career has been more ACC announcer sizzle (ahem, Deb Antonelli) that production substance. Aniya People's is a role player on a Top 25 team but "star" on this team. So I am even dubious on this being a "good" class.
The 2020 class actually does have a great player in Maddie Westbeld who is probably the 3rd best Freshman in the Country behind Clark and Bueckers and ahead of VanLith, Brink, Cardoso, Paopao to name a few. The rest of this 2020 class, again is at best "good" but with Westbeld being great, maybe that elevates the class.
The narrative that Niele Ivey inherited a top talent team is questionable despite what the McDonald's numbers indicate. Still a bit too soon on the 2020 class as someone else may or should step forward for this team.