Noticing the obvious (WNBA)

[Sifaka]

NBA Commissioner Adam Silver:

“I’m particularly frustrated that we’ve been unable to get young women, girls, to attend those games.

“Women’s basketball is largely supported, just in terms of the demographics, by older men for whatever reason who like fundamental basketball.

“It’s something I’ve talked a lot to the players about.” […] “We’re not connecting with almost the same demographic that our players are.

“I’m always saying our players are roughly 21-34, in that age range. I’m saying, why do you think it is that we’re not getting your peers to want to watch women’s basketball?

“In a way, I think it’s a good problem to have in that, I think the game looks fantastic. And it’s amazing where the league now is at from over 20 years ago when it launched.

“But we still have a marketing problem, and we got to figure it out. We got to figure out how we can do a better job connecting to young people and to get them to be interested.”

 

[willtalk]

Not having peers as an audience, while a present negative , can also be seen as a potential positive. The question is how to market the league to that demographic? As I stated on another thread that would happen with time, since more and more young girls are playing the game at a higher level. I think that they should appeal to female celebrities PC correctness to help promote the league. Get the players on popular talk shows and interviews. Make those people walk the talk by supporting the Women's League. Of course most would rather be seen at the NBA games to promote there own image but their are enough women around who already have the audience and really do not have to promote themselves. Get a few of them to go to the games and most people are like lemmings- they will follow.

 

[Undercovervol]

He’s right; I watch women’s basketball to appreciate the game for its fundamentals, play making, etc.
the WNBA has a major marketing problem, though. It has to figure out how to become more “glamorous” and star-driven to appeal to a larger audience. The WNBA comes across as a very modest league and endeavor...but paradoxically, it is. A lot of that has to do with money. Somehow it has to change the culture so that young women will watch...but how?

 

[wallman]

Good points Will. IMO they should try everything. The current climate could be used to initiate support. The social media of some of the players shows that they have huge followings which could also be an advantage. One problem is the complaining about things like Uconn is bad for basketball, that is counterproductive when there is complaining about the best there is. Promote don't put down.

 

[Monte]

He’s right; I watch women’s basketball to appreciate the game for its fundamentals, play making, etc.
the WNBA has a major marketing problem, though. It has to figure out how to become more “glamorous” and star-driven to appeal to a larger audience. The WNBA comes across as a very modest league and endeavor...but paradoxically, it is. A lot of that has to do with money. Somehow it has to change the culture so that young women will watch...but how?

Your key word, as far as I am concerned, is FUNDAMENTALS!
I, too, watch women's basketball because they play the game the way it was meant to be played. If they do the following things, they will draw more people, but I won't watch them:
1. Insist that most players dunk the ball.
2. Cover their bodies with tatoos.
3. Invent ways be noticed such as odd styles+colors for their hair.

 

[Reypl21]

I feel for the women's game. The few times ESPN puts anything on their fb page about WBB, people bash the sport. It's crazy to me how in other countries the women's game is valued enough to pay athletes big bucks. I hope the league can eventually become big, because it has good basketball.

 

[CL82]

“Women’s basketball is largely supported, just in terms of the demographics, by older men for whatever reason who like fundamental basketball.

From my minimal experience going a game that was not the fan demographic. Of course, I was there so there's that.

 

[Undercovervol]

Your key word, as far as I am concerned, is FUNDAMENTALS!
I, too, watch women's basketball because they play the game the way it was meant to be played. If they do the following things, they will draw more people, but I won't watch them:
1. Insist that most players dunk the ball.
2. Cover their bodies with tatoos.
3. Invent ways be noticed such as odd styles+colors for their hair.

Well, I disagree with this. I think the dunk is good for the women's game. I think players should be allowed to express themselves how they want. If anything, individuality among the players will help fans identify with them.

 

[Undercovervol]

I go to Lady Vol games sometimes. Most of the fans there are either retired couples or families that bring their kids as a "family outing." You could market the WNBA as a family event. I think it would be more successful if they marketed it like the men's game though.

 

[Monte]

Well, I disagree with this. I think the dunk is good for the women's game. I think players should be allowed to express themselves how they want. If anything, individuality among the players will help fans identify with them.

Most people would call basketball a TEAM game, not an INDIVIDUAL one.

 

[j66kicker]

From my minimal experience going a game that was not the fan demographic. Of course, I was there so there's that.

I agree. Been to a lot of Mercury games, which are pretty well attended relative to most of the WNBA. But 'older men' are definitely not the primary attendees.

 

[wallman]

That did seem to be a strange comment.

 

[Monte]

I agree. Been to a lot of Mercury games, which are pretty well attended relative to most of the WNBA. But 'older men' are definitely not the primary attendees.

This is no country for old men!

 

[Trappist]

Why has no one yet mentioned the "obvious"? The WNBA league and fan base are incorrectly perceived as made up mostly of gay women. Until that perception changes, the WNBA will never take its rightfully deserved place in professional sports.

 

[j66kicker]

Why has no one yet mentioned the "obvious"? The WNBA league and fan base are incorrectly perceived as made up mostly of gay women. Until that perception changes, the WNBA will never take its rightfully deserved place in professional sports.

If you go to a Mercury game it would be hard to convince you that perception is incorrect. Maybe not "mostly," but possibly "the largest element of..." Lots of families/mothers with young daughters too.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

If you go to a Mercury game it would be hard to convince you that perception is incorrect. Maybe not "mostly," but possibly "the largest element of..." Lots of families/mothers with young daughters too.

Um, yep. Glad you answered him, or I would have. Even at Rutgers that was a significant part of the fan base. Not most, not even half, but a noticeable presence. I think the college fan demographic is the "older men" (and "older women") group as a major component, then about equally the families with young daughters and gay folks. What you certainly didn't see a lot of was younger males, whether kids or just younger folks.

They (older folks) may also be a major component of the WNBA fan base, but they are not the major attendees at WNBA games. Of course, the difficulty of attending pro games in pro arenas probably plays a factor, vs. attending the local (or semi-local) college team(s).

What Trappist actually said, as I read it, is that the WNBA itself and its fan base are incorrectly perceived as made up of mostly gay women. I think - using his sentence - is that the WNBA and its active fan base can correctly be perceived as including numerous gay women.

Which, to my mind, is neither a positive or negative. It is simply a fact.

 

[bbballfan23]

Why doesn’t the NBA contribute more to the WNBA for marketing? They have players at the end of the bench in the NBA making $5-$10 million per year in some instances. Keep in mind, the entire WNBA was paid just over $11 million last season.

 

[Roger G]

I don't know how they could ever sell a bunch of fit women running around in shorts. Hmmm. Let me think.

 

[biobioprof]

I don't know how they could ever sell a bunch of fit women running around in shorts. Hmmm. Let me think.

When I was young I had a female HS teacher who admitted to our English class that she liked an ad campaign for the Warriors with the slogan “we’ve got 5 guys in shorts who can go all night”.

 

[emjay]

Why has no one yet mentioned the "obvious"? The WNBA league and fan base are incorrectly perceived as made up mostly of gay women. Until that perception changes, the WNBA will never take its rightfully deserved place in professional sports.

Yes - and even more precisely, homophobic attitudes need to change. It's shameful that these negative perceptions of gay female athletes continue to exist. The WNBA includes gay and heterosexual players - it doesn't matter what the percentages are. I wish people would just appreciate the athleticism and skill of the players, without worrying about their sexual identities, or looking down on a player if she doesn't seem to fit a conventional idea of femininity.

 

[terif831]

Doesn't anyone remember when and how the WNBA was born?

It was created because of the ABL, a pro women's basketball league that actually played during basketball season. The NBA had no interest in creating a pro women's league until someone ELSE did - because they didn't want any pro basketball brand around other than the NBA. So, they started this little league that played for a few months in the summer, so it had no chance of interfering with the big boys. The WNBA has never been anything but the poor little sister of the NBA, and likely never will be. I highly doubt that the powers that be are really interested in developing it, beyond doing what they can to ensure that it loses as little money for them as possible.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

The key point is that fans are attracted to women's basketball, both at the college and pro level, for their fundamentals. Women players far better schooled in team basketball, and that makes the game fun to watch. I can't stand watching a regular season NBA game. All that goes on is one player is given the ball, while everyone else on the court, except for that player's defender, just stand there and watch. And don't even talk about going for offensive rebounds; everyone is just loping down the court when the shot goes up.

It's boring, it's lacking in team play, it's not worth it. The NBA game is the exact opposite of UConn basketball, which involves speed, passing, amazing, spectacular fast breaks, and tenacious team defense. And add to that the eye-popping winning record and you've got to be amazed!

I follow the WNBA to watch the players I've come to know from the NCAAB game, as well as some of the foreign players. Emma Meeseman is a fascinating, talented, typical "European player," who is a forward/center, but can pop from the outside, dribble well, and pass. No wonder she was just named the MVP of the European championship tournament, though her team lost to Maya's team.

And can't wait to see Nadeeva (spelling?) play, the teenager from Russia who helped dismantle UConn during the European tour during the summer (I've got that right, correct?), and was a key player in the European tournament.

The WNBA athletes deserve bigger salaries and much greater exposure from ESPN.

 

[Roger G]

Doesn't anyone remember when and how the WNBA was born?

It was created because of the ABL, a pro women's basketball league that actually played during basketball season. The NBA had no interest in creating a pro women's league until someone ELSE did - because they didn't want any pro basketball brand around other than the NBA. So, they started this little league that played for a few months in the summer, so it had no chance of interfering with the big boys. The WNBA has never been anything but the poor little sister of the NBA, and likely never will be. I highly doubt that the powers that be are really interested in developing it, beyond doing what they can to ensure that it loses as little money for them as possible.

That's pretty cynical and probably has a lot of truth in it. They certainly have no real motivation at this point to develop a rival league to their own unless it is supported by a completely different fan base.

 

[Roger G]

The key point is that fans are attracted to women's basketball, both at the college and pro level, for their fundamentals. Women players far better schooled in team basketball, and that makes the game fun to watch. I can't stand watching a regular season NBA game. All that goes on is one player is given the ball, while everyone else on the court, except for that player's defender, just stand there and watch. And don't even talk about going for offensive rebounds; everyone is just loping down the court when the shot goes up.

It's boring, it's lacking in team play, it's not worth it. The NBA game is the exact opposite of UConn basketball, which involves speed, passing, amazing, spectacular fast breaks, and tenacious team defense. And add to that the eye-popping winning record and you've got to be amazed!

I follow the WNBA to watch the players I've come to know from the NCAAB game, as well as some of the foreign players. Emma Meeseman is a fascinating, talented, typical "European player," who is a forward/center, but can pop from the outside, dribble well, and pass. No wonder she was just named the MVP of the European championship tournament, though her team lost to Maya's team.

And can't wait to see Nadeeva (spelling?) play, the teenager from Russia who helped dismantle UConn during the European tour during the summer (I've got that right, correct?), and was a key player in the European tournament.

The WNBA athletes deserve bigger salaries and much greater exposure from ESPN.

Meeseman was on the winning team with Moore, Griner, and Tolliver. It's pretty easy to see why they won.

Edit: they also have Jamierra Faulkner of the Sky, Deanna Nolan formerly of the Detroit Shock, Alba Torrens the Spanish player whose rights are owned by the CT Sun, and LaToya Sanders who I think is on the Los Angeles Sparks. Quite the lineup.

 

[Bronx23]

I read all the posts in this thread and think many of them when put together explain much of the problem / issue with the attendance and lack of exposure of the WNBA.
I too am an older white male who loves U Conn women's basketball. I don't hardly ever watch men's basketball, college or pro because I don't appreciate the way the game there is played by most players and teams.
I must also point out that my now 34 year old daughter who played good quality ball in HS and AAU travel teams and my wife, have almost no interest in women's basketball or women's sports. Both my wife and daughter are amongst the most open, accepting, tolerant people I know and have ever met, yet in this area they may not be subconsciously.
What does all this tell me? Many things! First is that the women's game when played well, for me is a thing of beauty. It's team aspect is front and foremost. For surely most men, not just in basketball but looking at life, work and families, it is often an individual endeavor. And many women in many areas strive to be more like men, then men striving to be like women so in many ways this is an extension of the gender issue that is part of every aspect of Anerican society(and the world). I won't go further with this because it already has political elements to it.
It has an age element to it obviously, as well as a sexual identity element to it. These are both substantial issues.
Also as mentioned above how the WNBA came into being and probably always will be, is a low minor league of the NBA. The NBA, in spite of its heads comments, has little interest in it being much more than it is. Unless or until it cuts ties and starts it own league, it will very likely not go much beyond where it is now. Without the NBA's support it would likely die for financial reasons. So then either it's stuck where it is or it dies, hmmm interesting, tough choice. So as with everything financials concerns are often foremost.
Another issue that I will only touch on minimally is the comments about men or women in shorts. Obviously sexuality also sells but this comes with some real negatives and complications.
I truly hope I these comments don't get deleted, or me being suspended, but all I did really was describe our country and worlds issues with women. I will leave it at that.
As a social worker and sociology major, and a self described feminist, I tend to look at things from that angle, just hope I didn't cross any lines. I have some suggestions which I won't include as they become more political.
Bronx23