North Carolina frees up another roster spot... | The Boneyard

North Carolina frees up another roster spot...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
574
Reaction Score
983
You don't see players transfer this late unless they are forced out. It happened at Louisville MBB they got a late commitment even though they had no room and magically one day later a bench player was all of a sudden out. Shame on Rick Pitino. Shame on Sylvia Hatchell.
 
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
1,398
Reaction Score
1,508
Smith didn't play much last season, and her minutes would drop this season.
 

doggydaddy

Grampysorus Rex
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
6,008
Reaction Score
8,970
I don't think that players leaving because of playing time is an issue. Accepting a verbal when there are too many players on the roster and expecting players to transfer? I have a problem with that.
 

HGN

Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
3,161
Reaction Score
6,832
HuskyMJ , there will be others........But don't totally blame Hatchell , there are other forces at work, seemingly, re-shaping that roster.
 
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
1,398
Reaction Score
1,508
I don't think that players leaving because of playing time is an issue. Accepting a verbal when there are too many players on the roster and expecting players to transfer? I have a problem with that.
..............

I don't think there will be a numbers problem this year. I am not sure how many transfers there are this year, if Smith is the only one, UNC would be at 15 this year.

Most schools offer top 25 players, then adjust their offers as players commit. There are not to many schools that would turn down a top 25 player, especially when 3 come as a package on the same day.
 

UConnCat

Wise Woman
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Messages
13,929
Reaction Score
87,318
..............

There are not to many schools that would turn down a top 25 player, especially when 3 come as a package on the same day.

Especially a school coming off a season in which it failed to make the NCAA tournament and lost to UConn by 51 points.
 

easttexastrash

Stay Classy!
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
9,582
Reaction Score
13,224
You don't see players transfer this late unless they are forced out. It happened at Louisville MBB they got a late commitment even though they had no room and magically one day later a bench player was all of a sudden out. Shame on Rick Pitino. Shame on Sylvia Hatchell.

Jessika Bradley transferred out of Baylor after her sophomore year and there was no indication that she was forced out. It appeared to be that she wanted more playing time, which she was not going to get playing behind Danielle Wilson.

Kelli Griffin, the starting point guard for a team with National Championship potential quit at the team at the start of her senior season at Baylor.

Emily Neimann transferred out of Baylor after her sophomore year in which she was a very important part of winning the national championship.

It happens.
 

HuskyFan1125

"Dont be the same, be better"
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
5,957
Reaction Score
11,012
Jessika Bradley transferred out of Baylor after her sophomore year and there was no indication that she was forced out. It appeared to be that she wanted more playing time, which she was not going to get playing behind Danielle Wilson.

Kelli Griffin, the starting point guard for a team with National Championship potential quit at the team at the start of her senior season at Baylor.

Emily Neimann transferred out of Baylor after her sophomore year in which she was a very important part of winning the national championship.

It happens.


Hey there Baylor fan!! quick question!

Was there ever a reason why Griffin quit? and Wilson??

I thought Danielle Wilson was great and hated to see her quit playing basketball!
 

easttexastrash

Stay Classy!
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
9,582
Reaction Score
13,224
Hey there Baylor fan!! quick question!

Was there ever a reason why Griffin quit? and Wilson??

I thought Danielle Wilson was great and hated to see her quit playing basketball!

Griffin was such a surprise. I think she had lost passion for the game and rumor was that she was getting her butt kicked by Sims in practice each day and that KM was very hard on her. She really could have helped that team a lot but didn't seem to have anything left in the tank.

Wilson tore her ACL at the end of her junior season. That was such a loss. In her junior year she led Baylor in points (15.1) on 50% shooting, rebounds (9.6) and blocked shots (3.1) per game. She was playing at an AA level. She and BG would have been a terror in the paint. I'm not saying that they would have beaten UCONN in the FF, but the game would have been much closer.
 

EricLA

Cronus
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
15,125
Reaction Score
82,794
Kids transfer for a variety of reasons. UNC just landed a monster class for 2013. Most everyone on the roster has been "recruited over", especially the kids in 2012. MJ left UCONN because she wanted more PT. it's pretty clear that at least Lauren and probably Heather will get very limited PT at the end of games or during blowouts. Some kids are willing to stay to be part of a program only with limited PT. Other kids want more.

I get that people are down on UNC but if i were one of their fans, i'd be thrilled. These kids are getting a free ride. they go to another school to get a free ride there. It's college sports. On the men's side it's big business. What is happening on the women's side happens all the time on the men's side in hoops and football at least. We can sit here in judgment and say "shame on them", but has there been any article saying these kids were forced out and told to leave? Are the kids who are leaving bitter and angry? Were they mistreated? Were they promised 4 years only to be "fired" partway through? Is anyone promised 4 years or are scholarships renewed every year? Don't kids have the option of leaving any time they want to? I'm sure i'm in the minority, but even if their scholarships weren't "renewed", so what? Some people seem to feel college sports is a non profit institution that is always there for the good of the children. Unfortunately, that's not the case...

Perhaps the way UNC has handled this will come back to haunt them. Perhaps in the future, parents will say "I don't want my daughter going there since there's a history of them recruiting over players and not renewing scholarships.". But then again, perhaps not.
 

CamrnCrz1974

Good Guy for a Dookie
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
2,047
Reaction Score
11,954
You don't see players transfer this late unless they are forced out.

Or if they chose to wait until the end of semester and ensure that they had applied and were accepted at the school to which they want to transfer.
 

Kibitzer

Sky Soldier
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
5,676
Reaction Score
24,714
Several years ago, there was an article that was tacked into the "permanent" section of the Boneyard about the recruiting of a young lady named Saona Chapman of Norwich Free Academy, a terrific point guard that I watched in the Connecticut HS championship game (they won, beating Norwalk High).

At some point in the recruiting process a coach (Muffett McGraw, I believe) withdrew her scholarship offer to an uncertain Saona so it could be bestowed on another ready-do-commit recruit.

I will be pleased if anyone can or will either verify or correct my recollection of this event.

If my recollection is indeed accurate, it is admirable that the coach in question did not pull a "Hatchell," and make excessive commitments.

I think what UNC has apparently done is perfectly legal (since, as has been pointed out, athletic scholarships are year to year) but morally reprehensible.

I think the title of the OP is inaccurate by stating that UNC has freed up "another" roster spot. My read is that they have freed up "a" roster spot (just one) and they must somehow shorten their roster before the Fab Five all claim roster spots at once.

The recruits did nothing wrong. Certainly the players on the roster now (expecially underclassmen, who may become victims of excessive commitments to newcomers) did nothing wrong. But the UNC AD should be ashamed.
 

doggydaddy

Grampysorus Rex
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
6,008
Reaction Score
8,970
Eric, I couldn't disagree with you more on this. I'll try to address each point as best I can. This was discussed in a long thread when it happened, so some points were already made by myself and others.

Kids transfer for a variety of reasons.

Absolutly true. Some are happy to leave. Some feel pushed out. And for the most part, we don't get the full story as kids try to handle it maturely.

UNC just landed a monster class for 2013. Most everyone on the roster has been "recruited over", especially the kids in 2012.

Kids get recruited over all the time. But I can't remember a time that a team as accepted as many verbals as this that most put them over the 15 player limit at the time of the verbal.

MJ left UCONN because she wanted more PT. it's pretty clear that at least Lauren and probably Heather will get very limited PT at the end of games or during blowouts. Some kids are willing to stay to be part of a program only with limited PT. Other kids want more.

But again, none of these kids left under the circumstance that the roster was over the limit.

I get that people are down on UNC but if i were one of their fans, i'd be thrilled.

I agree. Fans only want their teams to win. Although some might not be comfortable with this.

These kids are getting a free ride. they go to another school to get a free ride there. It's college sports.

There is so much more to it than "a free ride". Leaving a school can turn a players life upside down. New friends, new teammates, new environment. It's just not that simple.

On the men's side it's big business. What is happening on the women's side happens all the time on the men's side in hoops and football at least.

I can't remember a men's team that had a full roster and added players that would mean that players would have to leave to meet the limit like this. Football has so many more players and it's the money maker at these schools. So it truely is a business and an ugly one at that. Do you want Women's baksetball to go in that direction?

We can sit here in judgment and say "shame on them", but has there been any article saying these kids were forced out and told to leave?Are the kids who are leaving bitter and angry? Were they mistreated? Were they promised 4 years only to be "fired" partway through? Is anyone promised 4 years or are scholarships renewed every year?

Not yet. And maybe there won't be. Maybe the kids want to take the high road. But it doesn't mean it didn't happen. And they were brought in with good faith that they would be there for 4 years. If you think differently, I think you are wrong.

Don't kids have the option of leaving any time they want to? I'm sure i'm in the minority, but even if their scholarships weren't "renewed", so what? Some people seem to feel college sports is a non profit institution that is always there for the good of the children. Unfortunately, that's not the case...

Wow....talk about harsh. So what? They had no clue this was coming. I know that if I was a player that saw the 15 player roster was filled, I would not be looking for new players to come in and force or suggest that other players leave. I would ask you how much money does the women's program at UNC actually make? I can't imagine much and I can't even imagine much more with the better players coming in.

Perhaps the way UNC has handled this will come back to haunt them. Perhaps in the future, parents will say "I don't want my daughter going there since there's a history of them recruiting over players and not renewing scholarships.". But then again, perhaps not.

I know as a parent, I would certainly be upset if my kid felt they had to leave based on the over recruiting (not recruiting over) by UNC. But I don't think it will effect future recruiting. It's difficult to pull off a 4 (or 5) player coupe like this and even more rare to do it when there is a full roster. And the second part is my main beef. Recruit over to improve? No problem. But not when you don't have room for these players. Someone obviously would have to leave.
 

MilfordHusky

Voice of Reason
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
37,450
Reaction Score
127,829
Recruiting better kids is fine. Recruiting beyond the 15-player limit is not fine to me.

Kids do transfer, but making them transfer when the original school was the preferred one based on a number of factors--close to home, dream school, academics, campus, friends, etc. I'm Ok with a coach saying that a player will get reduced PT and may want to condider a transfer. I am not Ok with a coach saying that she/he is terminating or withdrawing a scholarship.

In my view, Sylvia had a responsibility. She either recruited or signed the wrong kids or did not coach them up adequately. If she then gets better players, fine. But only up to the 15 limit. Yes, technically, the scholarship is a 1-year guarantee only, but de facto it is really a 4-year guarantee. It is unethical in my view to pull it except in the rare case where a walk-on gets a scholly 1 year at a time with no future guarantee.

Imagine this for a coach's sales pitch: "I want you to play for me. I'll guarantee a scholarship for your first year. After that, you're on the chopping block." I doubt it would work very well.
 
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
1,398
Reaction Score
1,508
MilfordHusky what is your head count at UNC for 2012, and 2013 ? There are a lot of variables which I don't know about, such as injuries, red-shirts graduating, and transfers that were planned before the verbal commitments.

Sure it appears Hatchell is being unethical, however her program has underachieved the last few years, so I can see why she is doing it
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
22,380
Reaction Score
54,924
I can't remember a men's team that had a full roster and added players that would mean that players would have to leave to meet the limit like this.

Uhh ... didn't this very thing happen to the UConn men last year with the recruitment of Drummond?

Ultimately, one player agreed to go off scholarship for a year to make room for him.
 

easttexastrash

Stay Classy!
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
9,582
Reaction Score
13,224
I'm happy that we all are getting to say the same thing that we said a month ago. How often do we get do-overs to bash the same subject and coach? I am sure that there will be many more chances over the next couple of years to say what a horrible person Hatchell is. I look forward each and every one. :p
 

pinotbear

Silly Ol' Bear
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
3,781
Reaction Score
8,182
summertime on the Boneyard: flogging dead horses, and "exhuming things better left alone", as the man sang.
 

Kibitzer

Sky Soldier
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
5,676
Reaction Score
24,714
I'm happy that we all are getting to say the same thing that we said a month ago. How often do we get do-overs to bash the same subject and coach? I am sure that there will be many more chances over the next couple of years to say what a horrible person Hatchell is. I look forward each and every one. :p

She's not a horrible person at all. Just too dumb that she can't count to 15 without coming up with a few extra digits.
 

EricLA

Cronus
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
15,125
Reaction Score
82,794
Eric, I couldn't disagree with you more on this. I'll try to address each point as best I can. This was discussed in a long thread when it happened, so some points were already made by myself and others.

I know as a parent, I would certainly be upset if my kid felt they had to leave based on the over recruiting (not recruiting over) by UNC. But I don't think it will effect future recruiting. It's difficult to pull off a 4 (or 5) player coupe like this and even more rare to do it when there is a full roster. And the second part is my main beef. Recruit over to improve? No problem. But not when you don't have room for these players. Someone obviously would have to leave.
That's one great thing about our country. People aren't put to death for having differing opinions. i'm not going to debate it with you because you will never change my mind and I will never change yours. I totally respect that you have a much stronger dislike to the situation than I do.

By the way, and again I'm sure you and others find this totally reprehensible, but there's a pretty long list of kids on the UCONN men's side who have been told they were recruited over, weren't going to get any PT the following year, and subsequently transferred. Ultimately it usually happened BEFORE Calhoun went and got new kids to verbal, when their schollies were maxed out, but bottom line he's done it numerous times to free up spots for kids he wanted more. It happens all the time. And the NCAA allows it. It's the reality of the system. But fans are certainly within their rights to criticize and lament when it does happen...
 

pinotbear

Silly Ol' Bear
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
3,781
Reaction Score
8,182
on a cat, that's polydactal: don't know what it is on a Hatch.

th
 

EricLA

Cronus
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
15,125
Reaction Score
82,794
on a cat, that's polydactal: don't know what it is on a Hatch.

th
Yep! polydactyl is correct. they are also called Hemingway cats - as the story goes, Ernest befriended a ship captain and after talking about their mutual love for cats, the captain gave him a gift of a 6-toed Maine Coon as a parting gift. Polydactyl is a trait and not a breed, and it comes from a dominant gene. Only a polydactyl cat can parent another polydactyl. These cats are known for their very sweet dispositions and make ideal companions for their two legged owners. (They don't feel superior because they have more toes either!)

I have a tabby polydactyl - 5 toes on each paw save one that has 7 toes. He's super sweet and a great family cat!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Online statistics

Members online
39
Guests online
1,453
Total visitors
1,492

Forum statistics

Threads
159,857
Messages
4,208,189
Members
10,076
Latest member
Mpjd2024


.
Top Bottom