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Message: [QUOTE="junglehusky, post: 1161230, member: 61"] Took me 10 minutes to format this in MS word and I haven't even read it all... heh. Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV I'm not saying it's going to happen. But there are ways to make it work. Are those ways acceptable to both sides? Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV There's no way current members will accept a reduction in TV rev. Nor should they. Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV Would they agree to a deal where two new entrants get all the league title game $, any new bowl/tv rev because of inventory? Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike I don't see it. You know the history of unequal revenue sharing with the Big 12. Ask Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri and Texas A&M. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike Unequal revenue sharing makes 2nd class conf members. Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV Would they be comfortable offering that? Would new entrants accept? I don't know. But really only way I see it happening. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike Look at the Big 12 contract. They own all but 1 football game. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike The people I spoke to at the Big 12 and WVU said any expansion under the current TV contract means a reduction of revenues unless Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV Absolutely true. And it's why I doubt it'll happen. But the second-class members are already second class, and would be richer. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike The incoming members are worth, at the least $25 million per school, per year. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike I think the Big 12 can count on a bidding war between Fox & ESPN to keep Texas in the Big 12 when the current contract is over. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike I think their are problems in the way the contract is split between Fox and ESPN. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike Both would have to agree to reopen because neither is going to subsidize content for the others. Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV And there's no one out there that is. As I wrote. It's a huge hurdle. Only way around is to let new members take new rev. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike And the presidents of Fox and ESPN have told the Big 12 over and over again they would not add money. Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV On that part, I'm not sure it takes that long. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike Let's say they do. What's the incentive for KSU and KU to play in the east? What other 3 schools are you going to put in the east? Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike I think the Big 12 should expand to 14 if not 16. Short-term loss for long-term gain. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike But before I did that I would want to make sure my TV partners were on board and I would want commitments from the incoming schools Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike The other hurdle I hear is the obannon decision. The Big 12 doesn't want to expand because they don't know the final price of that. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike The timing isn't right & as long as the Big 12 can keep their revenues & have a CCG they wont expand. Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV 14/16 is an awful lot. Have to go all the way to CT, for sure, to find enough worthy members. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike I hear fox is going to go all out and make the Big 12 what the big east was to espn early. if that happens then open the doors. Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV One incentive (particularly for K-State) is easier entry to title game. You kidding? OU, OK State, Tex, BYU on one side ... Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike But that would take Fox seriously overpaying. I mean B1G money to get Texas to agree. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike KSU would... but who else... ISU is a natural. Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV The CCG is a huge IF. That rule has been in place for more than 20 years, nobody changed it. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike Separate OSU and OU. It kills OSU to fly into WVU. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike 12 doesn't work. Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV Makes sense. Not sure if you read what I wrote, but I'm not suggesting this is happening. I agree with everything you said. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike See Swofford's comments Friday night. Bowlsby said yesterday he expects the P5 to change the rule within 5 months. Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 2h2 hours ago @theDudeofWV But the meeting happened. Doesn't mean Big 12 is expanding, and I said that. Just that it's doing "research." Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago @tsnmike I want it to happen. It needs to happen. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @tsnmike But they don't have the votes. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @tsnmike Half of the Big 12 has PTSD from expansion. They want their check. They dont care about the future. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @tsnmike Talk to Luck about it. Ask him about adding Florida, Ohio, NC and Tenn to the Big 12 footprint. Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV If 12, you've got KU, WVU, KState, Iowa State, Cincy. Only need one more. Could even stash BYU unless someone else wanted in. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @tsnmike The one thing that bothers me is the Big 12 has went out of their way to tell people they are not expanding & they are not talking. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @tsnmike Maybe the Big 12 could put them on a longer revenue cycle. But all those schools have deficits. That concerns the Big 12. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @tsnmike So until the Big 12 knows for sure about a CCG they have no incentive to act but all the incentive in the world to wait. Frank the Tank ‏@frankthetank111 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @tsnmike Isn't proposed championship game rule change focused on eliminating division requirement? That's what the ACC wants. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike No. It repeals the current law. The Big 12 and ACC partnered on that with support from the SEC. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike What people don't get is there is obviously collusion between the ACC and Big 12. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Both fear the B1G. and the SEC isn't keen on having the B1G in SEC territory either. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike So allowing the big 12 to have a CCG with 10 serves their interests. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike But allowing the B12 to set their own rules for a CCG makes expansion for the Big 12 more likely not less. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Then it serves the same purpose as it would for the ACC or SEC. Have your two best schools play. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Money is the only reason the Big 12 won't expand. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @tsnmike I'll say this... Fox could make it happen. Only Fox.... ESPN is too heavily invested in SEC & NFL. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike I think it's 60% of the vote of the P5 committee & 3 of the 5 conferences to approve to repeal the CCG rule. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike [url]http://www.dailyastorian.com/changes-may-be-ahead-for-conference-championships-da-ap-webfeeds-news-college-sports6e3215812bba4bf6b28ff6f457b9d285[/url] … Scalphunter ‏@scalphunter 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @frankthetank111 @tsnmike what do you think the odds are the P5 will go for it? Basically you'd need 2 out of 4 (B12 is a yes) Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike [url]http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/24483893/acc-supports-deregulation-of-conference-championship-games-would-change-postseason-structure[/url] … Deregulate is the key term. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @scalphunter @frankthetank111 @tsnmike I'm told its not controversial and will pass. Scalphunter ‏@scalphunter 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @frankthetank111 @tsnmike and would the ACC get to pit it's top 2 teams? Or is that more of a challenge? Greg Flugaur ‏@flugempire 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @frankthetank111 @tsnmike I still don't see evidence the SEC would join the Big 12/ACC in this endeavor and why they would. Frank the Tank ‏@frankthetank111 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @tsnmike Yes, I've seen those articles, but read them closely. The focus is on divisions and not lowering 12-team requirement. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike No. It's not. It's on deregulation. Why would the Big 12 join the ACC to change that rule. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike They want to do away with the rule all together. Not amend it. Frank the Tank ‏@frankthetank111 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @tsnmike Could they eliminate the 12-team requirement? Sure. But that's a higher hurdle than eliminating divisions. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike They are going to repeal the rule. Allow each conf to establish its own rules. Greg Flugaur ‏@flugempire 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @frankthetank111 @tsnmike If SEC wants options in setting up different rules/divisional play, they have 40 votes with B1G/PAC Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike [url]http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college-sports/headlines/20141208-carlton-big-12-s-fissures-faults-are-being-exposed-again-under-stress.ece[/url] … Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Ask Amy Yakola at the ACC about the ACC legislation. If it is intended to amend the rule or revoke it. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike But its a moot point. A CCG isn't the determining factor. Money is the reason for no expansion. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Certain members of the Big 12 don't care that TCU & BU were left out. They believe they would not be. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike They are not going to have their base revenues reduced from $25 to $20.8 million. Frank the Tank ‏@frankthetank111 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @tsnmike I agree with you there. The CFP and CCG are red herrings for Big 12 expansion. It's about the money. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike It always has been. And the two entities that can change it are Fox & ESPN. Frank the Tank ‏@frankthetank111 1h1 hour ago @theDudeofWV @tsnmike On the other hand, the money will dry up LONG-TERM without improving the non-Texas demographics of the Big 12. 0 replies 1 retweet 0 favorites Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Some in the Big 12 see that. Some don't care. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and WVU would go elsewhere. They have already been contacted. Greg Flugaur ‏@flugempire 1h1 hour ago @frankthetank111 @theDudeofWV @tsnmike CCG not totally red herring. 13-0 always > 12-0 /12-1 > 11-1. Big 12 teams not control of own destiny Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 59m59 minutes ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Here's the other thing Bowlsby mentioned: just play a 13th game. I have no idea how unless Hawaii is involved. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 58m58 minutes ago @flugempire @frankthetank111 @tsnmike If the Big 12 added 2 for a CCG and made it every year they would still lose millions by expanding. Greg Flugaur ‏@flugempire 58m58 minutes ago @theDudeofWV @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Against the current rules (exception Hawaii) I don't see these rule changes happening easily.... Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 56m56 minutes ago @flugempire @frankthetank111 @tsnmike The SEC & ACC want the Big 12 intact. The SEC already works closely with the Big 12. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 56m56 minutes ago @flugempire @frankthetank111 @tsnmike And the ACC and the Big 12 both fear the B1G so much they work together closely now too. Greg Flugaur ‏@flugempire 56m56 minutes ago @theDudeofWV @frankthetank111 @tsnmike Short term, yes they would. Mid term, yes they would. Long term, if make right choices,Big12 survives Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 39m39 minutes ago @theDudeofWV @flugempire @frankthetank111 Overstating to say they would "lose millions". Only if they cut new members in on TV deal. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 39m39 minutes ago @tsnmike @flugempire @frankthetank111 Respectfully if it requires that much backward engineering it's not viable. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 38m38 minutes ago @tsnmike @flugempire @frankthetank111 If it's going to happen then Fox or ESPN needs to intervene. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 37m37 minutes ago @tsnmike @flugempire @frankthetank111 But sometimes you (Fox) has to invest more $ to protect an investment (The Big 12). Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 37m37 minutes ago @tsnmike @flugempire @frankthetank111 Even if the result is a short-term loss. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 36m36 minutes ago @tsnmike @flugempire @frankthetank111 So if Fox intends the Big 12 to be their flagship product they will pay for it to protect their brand. Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 35m35 minutes ago @frankthetank111 @tsnmike So it all comes down to this: [MEDIA=youtube]jofNR_WkoCE[/MEDIA] … Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 29m29 minutes ago @theDudeofWV @flugempire @frankthetank111 I never said was viable. I just know they're not going to cut their checks, so what else is there? Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 27m27 minutes ago @tsnmike @flugempire @frankthetank111 it comes down to this: does Fox decide to overpay for the Big 12 to keep Texas out of the ACC or B1G? Christopher Lambert ‏@theDudeofWV 25m25 minutes ago @tsnmike @flugempire @frankthetank111 I guarantee you that Bowlsby will have that conversation with David Nathanson. [/QUOTE]

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