OT: NHL expanding by 4 teams!?

[TheDoggPound]

If the reports are true:

http://www.si.com/nhl/2014/08/26/report-toronto-seattle-quebec-city-join-vegas-2017-nhl-expansion

This essentially makes Hartford top of the list for relocation simply through attrition.

 

[Fishy]

If they're adding four new teams, and Hartford isn't getting one, it means that Hartford is not getting a team through expansion, attrition or even divine intervention.

 

[TheDoggPound]

So then, where do the Coyotes and Panthers go Fishy?

 

[TheDoggPound]

Hartford has always been mentioned as a relocation market anyways, not expansion. Ex. Winnipeg because we're a smaller market. This move just wiped out 2 additional competitors for those 2 clubs.

 

[Husky25]

Hartford is not getting a team until a new arena is built. $35 Mil won't do it. 10x that might get close.

 

[TheDoggPound]

Hartford is not getting a team until a new arena is built. $35 Mil won't do it. 10x that might get close.

CRDA will be making their recommendation to the state on a new arena Q1 2015. It will be a larger facility than the XL Center.

 

[TheDoggPound]

$35M is meant to make XLC a viable temporary home for a team while the new arena is being constructed.

 

[John]

If the reports are true:

http://www.si.com/nhl/2014/08/26/report-toronto-seattle-quebec-city-join-vegas-2017-nhl-expansion

This essentially makes Hartford top of the list for relocation simply through attrition.

shouldn't they be contracting and not expanding???

 

[TheDoggPound]

No. They're the only major sports league spread across two countries giving them plethora of viable markets. The only 2 perpetually troubled franchises are FLA/PHX and they're destined to be moved. Quebec City is a boon, TO2 is a boon and Seattle is a good market. The talent level will be able to keep up because it's a sport played in many different countries creating a large pool of talented players Worldwide to draw from.

 

[John]

No. They're the only major sports league spread across two countries giving them plethora of viable markets. The only 2 perpetually troubled franchises are FLA/PHX and they're destined to be moved. Quebec City is a boon, TO2 is a boon and Seattle is a good market. The talent level will be able to keep up because it's a sport played in many different countries creating a large pool of talented players Worldwide to draw from.

a second team in Toronto seems ridiculous. Why not just maximize the Maple Leafs arena, make it bigger? Who in Toronto is going to root for some second-class team? The Maple Leafs are a way of life in Toronto.

 

[Husky25]

CRDA will be making their recommendation to the state on a new arena Q1 2015. It will be a larger facility than the XL Center.

I know what the $35 Million was for, but there is a lot of political hurdles as well as time between making any recommendations and turning those words and papers into the first shovel in the ground.

If Hartford is really serious about re-attracting an NHL team, they can't cheap out. The last two arenas built with at least hockey in mind (ConsolEnergy in Pittsburgh and Prudential Center in New Jersey) cost well north of $300 million. The Barclays cost $1 Billion and Detroit is looking for a new arena in the $650 million range. Winnipeg got away with an arena costing under $200Mil because 1) It's Canada. 2) Hockey starved and the team should have never left for Arizona in the first place...i.e. it's Canada 3) Built mostly with private money, and Finally 4) It's Canada.

 

[Husky25]

a second team in Toronto seems ridiculous. Why not just maximize the Maple Leafs arena, make it bigger? Who in Toronto is going to root for some second-class team? The Maple Leafs are a way of life in Toronto.

I Don't think Toronto will get a second team. It will probably be in Hamilton, about an hour southwest of Toronto.

 

[John]

I Don't think Toronto will get a second team. It will probably be in Hamilton, about an hour southwest of Toronto.

I thought Copps was woefully out-of-date like the Civic Center? Or are they building a new arena?

 

[TheDoggPound]

I believe TO2 refers to Markham, which is a suburb outside of Toronto.

 

[Husky25]

I thought Copps was woefully out-of-date like the Civic Center? Or are they building a new arena?

Hamilton is just what I heard.

I'm with you I don't think the city of Toronto can support two teams, especially when Everyone and their brother is a Leafs fan. That S__t runs deep. Their are multiple stories of Maple Leafs preseason games selling out on the same night the Blue Jays are pushing for the playoffs. But with that kind of hockey fiendism, building a rivalry an hour away would be great for Canada and great for the sport.

They built a new arena in Winnipeg about 10 years ago for under $200 million (inflation adjusted) of private money. It is Canada, so a corp. with deep pockets was willing to foot the bill for a hockey starved area or maybe it is easier to get things through the local gov't. I suspect a little bit of both, of which Hartford really has neither.

 

[TheDoggPound]

I know what the $35 Million was for, but there is a lot of political hurdles as well as time between making any recommendations and turning those words and papers into the first shovel in the ground.

If Hartford is really serious about re-attracting an NHL team, they can't cheap out. The last two arenas built with at least hockey in mind (ConsolEnergy in Pittsburgh and Prudential Center in New Jersey) cost well north of $300 million. The Barclays cost $1 Billion and Detroit is looking for a new arena in the $650 million range. Winnipeg got away with an arena costing under $200Mil because 1) It's Canada. 2) Hockey starved and the team should have never left for Arizona in the first place...i.e. it's Canada 3) Built mostly with private money, and Finally 4) It's Canada.

Winnipeg got away with $200M arena because the Thrashers were evicted out of Atlanta and had no where else to turn; it was Winnipeg or contract the league to 29 which was never on the table.

Our new arena will be $350-400M.

 

[gioff23]

i simply dont see Hartford in the NHL ever again. I get it ever is a long time. But if you saw what BC did in the ACC, think about what the 3 NY teams and Boston will do to keep Hartford out.

 

[TheDoggPound]

i simply dont see Hartford in the NHL ever again. I get it ever is a long time. But if you saw what BC did in the ACC, think about what the 3 NY teams and Boston will do to keep Hartford out.

They can't do anything but exercise their one vote, we don't overlap into their territory. Another team in the North East corridor actually benefits those teams anyways because it reduces travel for the whole EC and brings back another built-in rivalry, rivalries in the NHL (or any league) drive pricing points. If you're the Bruins owner would you rather play the Panthers at TD Garden and charge an avg. of $75 or the Whalers and charge an avg. $100+? Now apply that to all the others teams as well.

 

[John]

i simply dont see Hartford in the NHL ever again. I get it ever is a long time. But if you saw what BC did in the ACC, think about what the 3 NY teams and Boston will do to keep Hartford out.

I look at the bleeding demographics around here and that's why I don't think it's going to happen again for Hartford.

 

[TheDoggPound]

I look at the bleeding demographics around here and that's why I don't think it's going to happen again for Hartford.

Fair point, this is a much better argument than using attendance from 1990 and comparing it to the artificially inflated 2014 attendance's.

But while we have bleeding demographics as you put it, we still have 325,000+ more residents in this state today than we did in 1997 and we still have the most disposable income out of any market vying for an NHL team. Couple that with strong television ratings for USMNT games and Stanley Cup games + there is a decent sized corporate base here; it's more than workable. Just need the right owner/ship like they had in Winnipeg.

 

[gioff23]

They can't do anything but exercise their one vote, we don't overlap into their territory. Another team in the North East corridor actually benefits those teams anyways because it reduces travel for the whole EC and brings back another built-in rivalry, rivalries in the NHL (or any league) drive pricing points. If you're the Bruins owner would you rather play the Panthers at TD Garden and charge an avg. of $75 or the Whalers and charge an avg. $100+? Now apply that to all the others teams as well.

And BC is just 1 vote in the ACC.

Teams don't vary cost of a ticket by day, opponent, etc. They set a cost/game. The ticket brokers are the ones that take the optionality on per game tickets. The Bruins charge the same price ever day, no matter who's coming.

 

[TheDoggPound]

Hampden county has grown as well and they're much closer to Hartford than Boston. We have to keep in mind a Whalers 2.0 would be a regional asset and that extends to Southern Mass as well because there's a lot of Whalers fans in that neck of the woods.

 

[TheDoggPound]

And BC is just 1 vote in the ACC.

Teams don't vary cost of a ticket by day, opponent, etc. They set a cost/game. The ticket brokers are the ones that take the optionality on per game tickets. The Bruins charge the same price ever day, no matter who's coming.

No, they don't. Ever heard of variable pricing? Apparently not, Google it.

 

[TheDoggPound]

Jeremy Jacobs is on record supporting another team in Hartford, it gives him more programming for NESN. He could probably launch a NESN2 with the Whalers as the channels anchor.

 

[gioff23]

The flip side is that there is far more competition than the Whalers had 25 years ago - Quinnipiac and UConn hockey, UConn BB, CT Sun, casinos, UConn FB, presumably minor league BB in Hartford, etc. There's a limit to the dollars available to local companies/individuals