NCAA gender equity review recommends combined Final Four for men's, women's basketball at same site

Carnac

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The NCAA has fallen short of upholding its commitment to gender equity by prioritizing its cash cow Division I men's basketball tournament "over everything else," according a scathing review released Tuesday assessing how the association conducts its championship events.

A law firm hired by the NCAA to investigate equity issues released a 113-page report that includes a series of recommendations, including holding the men's and women's Final Fours at the same site and offering financial incentives to schools to improve their women's basketball programs.


The Hartford Courier's version of this story:

Report hammers NCAA on equity, calls for combined Final Four

 
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This Op-Ed in the Washington Post is horrifying.

The first paragraph is quite damning: "If a businessman undervalued a prime asset at a fraction of its real worth by $80 million to $100 million and chronically depressed its commercial potential for a solid decade, he would be fired. If he misstated figures in the millions and skewed cost-revenue allocations, he would be sacked. And if any other leader today in corporate America got caught allowing a hierarchy and atmosphere in which female executives were not fully represented in senior leadership discussions and chronically and determinedly devoted only a fraction of resources to the women’s side of a business, he would be terminated — and sued."

Emmert has got to go.
 
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Why don't women sports start their own association? From my experience, I have found it easier to start something new than to change something old.
 
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The NCAA has fallen short of upholding its commitment to gender equity by prioritizing its cash cow Division I men's basketball tournament "over everything else," according a scathing review released Tuesday assessing how the association conducts its championship events.

A law firm hired by the NCAA to investigate equity issues released a 113-page report that includes a series of recommendations, including holding the men's and women's Final Fours at the same site and offering financial incentives to schools to improve their women's basketball programs.


The Hartford Courier's version of this story:

Report hammers NCAA on equity, calls for combined Final Four

Is there anything they can't screw up ? Ridiculous. This is an idiotic idea.
 

MSGRET

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The women have struggled but have come a long way. DON"T even think of combining...
Why not, you can have the Women play Fri-Sun and the Men play Sat-Mon or vise versa. You would be able to save a lot of costs by having all eight teams in the same city and make it easier on the fans. Here in Vegas the Hotel-Casino's would have world class entertainment like they do for the National Final's Rodeo, NASCAR, and even when they host the NCAA Conference Championships, which I believe next year it will be 5 Conferences.
 

Carnac

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Why not, you can have the Women play Fri-Sun and the Men play Sat-Mon or vise versa. You would be able to save a lot of costs by having all eight teams in the same city and make it easier on the fans. Here in Vegas the Hotel-Casino's would have world class entertainment like they do for the National Final's Rodeo, NASCAR, and even when they host the NCAA Conference Championships, which I believe next year it will be 5 Conferences.
Hey Serg, you know I’m partial to Las Vegas. The men’s and women’s finals in Las Vegas would work for me. I realize that I’m in the minority on this, but I would definitely attend that event regardless of the cost. I don’t see how they could lose money combining the two finals. They would get a lot of crossover fans that would attend all 4 games.
 

MSGRET

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Hey Serg, you know I’m partial to Las Vegas. The men’s and women’s finals in Las Vegas would work for me. I realize that I’m in the minority on this, but I would definitely attend that event regardless of the cost. I don’t see how they could lose money combining the two finals. They would get a lot of crossover fans that would attend all 4 games.
Plus you would have many others that would watch the games in all of the Sport Books throughout the City. I think it would make March Madness even better for the Casinos and their books, but it would also be a boon for the NCAA. March Madness is second to ONLY the Super Bowl when it comes to the books here in Vegas. With the chance of even having more action the Casino's might even give the NCAA an incentive to be able to be hosts to the teams.
 
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Hey Serg, you know I’m partial to Las Vegas. The men’s and women’s finals in Las Vegas would work for me. I realize that I’m in the minority on this, but I would definitely attend that event regardless of the cost. I don’t see how they could lose money combining the two finals. They would get a lot of crossover fans that would attend all 4 games.
Vegas would be a great final four site, the amount of money spent would be amazing. All the casino's could sell school items and NCAA items.
 

Carnac

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Plus you would have many others that would watch the games in all of the Sport Books throughout the City. I think it would make March Madness even better for the Casinos and their books, but it would also be a boon for the NCAA. March Madness is second to ONLY the Super Bowl when it comes to the books here in Vegas. With the chance of even having more action the Casino's might even give the NCAA an incentive to be able to be hosts to the teams.
I’ve watched 3 SuperBowls in Las Vegas sports books. Words cannot express the atmosphere there. The best times I’ve ever had watching a SuperBowl other than the one I attended.
 
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It might work in Las Vegas because of the number and density of hotels that might be able to absorb all of the demand.

I posted this yesterday:

I am afraid that combining in any other city would be unnecessarily difficult for the hardcore fans on the women's side. For a number of years I looked into travel for both and the cost difference was massive even before accounting for the difference in quality and proximity of available lodgings. There are people interested in both who could afford a lot, but talking to people at both who were early bookers and not those decided to go after their team made it, there do seem to be differences in fanbases.
 
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I do not like the idea of combining the two tournaments at the same site because it has the chance of making the women's tournament a sideshow. Then again, if combining the tournaments puts more money into the women's game and helps it to grow to where it can separate down the line, then all the better.
Hopefully, my opinion is as wrong as I was about putting Camden Yards in the middle of the city, or about combining Baskin Robbins franchises with Dunkin Donuts.
 
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Hey Serg, you know I’m partial to Las Vegas. The men’s and women’s finals in Las Vegas would work for me. I realize that I’m in the minority on this, but I would definitely attend that event regardless of the cost. I don’t see how they could lose money combining the two finals. They would get a lot of crossover fans that would attend all 4 games.
:confused: But now you're making UCONN WBB team travel across country EVERY YEAR! :D
 

Carnac

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:confused: But now you're making UCONN WBB team travel across country EVERY YEAR! :D
Yes, but every team in wcbb would be willing to make that trip if it meant they had a chance to win the national championship. I would think most teams would make that a “goal” for the season. One more thing you’re over looking, most players and coaches would welcome an opportunity to spend a few days in Las Vegas. Especially those that have never been there.

Four Division 1 conferences have their end of season basketball conference tournament games in Las Vegas every year. The fans of the teams involved love going there. Plenty of basketball venues, hotels, and restaurants to accommodate everyone at the same time. Plenty of night time entertainment choices to choose from.

It’s the same reason teams and fans like going to the Mohegan Sun Hotel and Casino for basketball games. Did you notice how quickly the Big East moved their end of season women’s conference tournament to the Mohegan Sun Arena after UConn officially rejoined the conference? More potential revenue than they were getting having it in Chicago.

They know UConn will be playing in the championship game, and that the local UConn fans will buy up most or all of the tickets, not long after they go on sale to the public. Folks want to have entertainment options when they’re not attending their games.

With all that said, your point is well taken, but I don’t think the NCAA would move the finals to one single location permanently. It has and will continue to be rotated to various venues around the country.
 
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Yes, but every team in wcbb would be willing to make that trip if it meant they had a chance to win the national championship. I would think most teams would make that a “goal” for the season. One more thing you’re over looking, most players and coaches wou welcome an opportunity to spend a few days in Las Vegas. Especially those that have never been there.

Five Division 1 conferences have their end of season basketball conference tournament games in Las Vegas every year. The fans of the teams involved love going there. Plenty of basketball venue, hotels, and restaurants to accommodate everyone at the same time. Plenty of night time entertainment choices to choose from.

It’s the same reason teams and fans like coming to
the Mohegan Sun Hotel and Casino for basketball games. Did you notice how quickly the Big East moved their end of season women’s conference tournament to the Mohegan Sun Arena after UConn officially rejoined the conference? More potential revenue.

They know UConn will be playing in the championship game, and that the UConn fans will buy up most or all of the tickets not long after they go on sale to the public. Folks want to have entertainment options when they’re not attending their games.

With all that said, your point is well taken, but I don’t think the NCAA would move the finals to one single location. It has and will continue to be rotated to various venues around the country.
The best way to generate more interest in women's basketball, would be to have the quarter, semi, and finals in Vegas every year.
Fans of all teams would flock to Vegas, interest leading up to the Vegas visit would be sky high.
 

Carnac

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I do not like the idea of combining the two tournaments at the same site because it has the chance of making the women's tournament a sideshow. Then again, if combining the tournaments puts more money into the women's game and helps it to grow to where it can separate down the line, then all the better.
Hopefully, my opinion is as wrong as I was about putting Camden Yards in the middle of the city, or about combining Baskin Robbins franchises with Dunkin Donuts.
Your concern is valid. But I think there are two ways of looking at a combined tournament. First, will combining the men’s and women’s games be more profitable than having them at different venues? Keep in mind that the NCAA is looking at this possibility from a financial and equitable point of view. They are not concerned with the fan’s concerns or points of view. To them, they believe in the corporate business mantra: "if it makes dollars, it makes sense.

Second, WCBB will NEVER be as popular or attractive to the masses as the men’s game. I don’t think combining the two will damage the perception or integrity of the women’s game. Fans that don’t like or respect the women’s game now won’t think any less of it then.

Combining the two might attract a “crossover“ contingent of fans that might become fans of the women’s game after they’ve had the chance to watch some games in person. If you’re watching the game on TV, it doesn’t make any difference to you whether the games are combined or not.

Combining the games will invite more media coverage than there may have been because they are already there to cover the men. Let's be real here. There are some media outlets that only cover the men's tournament. There are some potential advantages of combining the two final four games. Real true basketball fan will buy a 4 game tournament pass to see all 4 games. They know they are going to see the 4 best teams in the country, and THAT is worth the price of admission. If it doesn’t work, they can always return to hosting them at separate venues.
 
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Carnac

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The best way to generate more interest in women's basketball, would be to have the quarter, semi, and finals in Vegas every year.
Fans of all teams would flock to Vegas, interest leading up to the Vegas visit would be sky high.
And if the Las Vegas Visitor's Authority was smart, they (along with the various "team hotels" would promote this event ALL YEAR, and offer special "entertainment discount packages" to those visitors that do make the trip. There are lots of visitors in Las Vegas every week. Some of them may be tempted to go to a WCBB game for the entertainment value and curiosity if they’ve never attended a women’s game before. The Las Vegas Strip attracts thousands of out of town visitors every week.

It’s Disneyland for adults. There’s always folks from other countries visiting for the first time, and they’re willing to spend money in the restaurants, stores and casinos to have a good time. it’s possible that some of those visitors might want to see a WCBB game if they’ve never seen one.

Admittedly, most folks go there to drink, gamble, see a show or two, go shopping, get-a-way for the weekend and lay out by the pool (weather permitting). All of those fabulous and “glitzy“ (high end) hotels and casinos on the strip that "wow" the senses were built with the money left behind by visitors. :eek: Am I right MSGRET?
 
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MSGRET

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Yes, but every team in wcbb would be willing to make that trip if it meant they had a chance to win the national championship. I would think most teams would make that a “goal” for the season. One more thing you’re over looking, most players and coaches would welcome an opportunity to spend a few days in Las Vegas. Especially those that have never been there.

Four Division 1 conferences have their end of season basketball conference tournament games in Las Vegas every year. The fans of the teams involved love going there. Plenty of basketball venues, hotels, and restaurants to accommodate everyone at the same time. Plenty of night time entertainment choices to choose from.

It’s the same reason teams and fans like going to the Mohegan Sun Hotel and Casino for basketball games. Did you notice how quickly the Big East moved their end of season women’s conference tournament to the Mohegan Sun Arena after UConn officially rejoined the conference? More potential revenue than they were getting having it in Chicago.

They know UConn will be playing in the championship game, and that the local UConn fans will buy up most or all of the tickets, not long after they go on sale to the public. Folks want to have entertainment options when they’re not attending their games.

With all that said, your point is well taken, but I don’t think the NCAA would move the finals to one single location permanently. It has and will continue to be rotated to various venues around the country.
Carnac it is now officially 5 D1 Conferences, the Big West became the fifth after playing in Vegas last year because Anaheim refused to let them have the Championship there. The Big West officially moved it to Vegas (actually Henderson) in June. One of the major reasons was cost, they saved almost 2/3rds of their budget last vs the previous years when they played in Anaheim and that was without fans. Just think how much more they will save with ticket sales.

The MW, PAC 12, WAC, and West Coast Conferences have all saved money when it came to hosting the tournaments in Vegas. The MW has been in Vegas ever since they decided to move it back to Vegas from Denver where the attendance was half of what had been attending when it was played in Vegas. The league also saved money on the hotel and other incidental costs for the teams.

The four conferences have had better attendance then where they had previously hosted them. The PAC 12 almost doubled the WBB attendance the first year that they held it in Vegas, while the WAC and WCC have had better attendance at the Orleans Arena every year that they have held it in Vegas.

Admittedly, most folks go there to drink, gamble, go to shows, go shopping and lay out at the pool (weather permitting). All of the fabulous and “glitzy“ hotels and casinos on the strip and around the city were built with the money left behind by visitors. Am I right MSGRET?

100%;)
 
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Why don't women sports start their own association? From my experience, I have found it easier to start something new than to change something old.

Women did have their own association- the AIAW was the governing body until 1982. Then the NCAA decided it wanted in on WCBB and just about all the AIAW member schools bailed to join the NCAA.
 
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Yes, but every team in wcbb would be willing to make that trip if it meant they had a chance to win the national championship. I would think most teams would make that a “goal” for the season. One more thing you’re over looking, most players and coaches would welcome an opportunity to spend a few days in Las Vegas. Especially those that have never been there.

Four Division 1 conferences have their end of season basketball conference tournament games in Las Vegas every year. The fans of the teams involved love going there. Plenty of basketball venues, hotels, and restaurants to accommodate everyone at the same time. Plenty of night time entertainment choices to choose from.

It’s the same reason teams and fans like going to the Mohegan Sun Hotel and Casino for basketball games. Did you notice how quickly the Big East moved their end of season women’s conference tournament to the Mohegan Sun Arena after UConn officially rejoined the conference? More potential revenue than they were getting having it in Chicago.

They know UConn will be playing in the championship game, and that the local UConn fans will buy up most or all of the tickets, not long after they go on sale to the public. Folks want to have entertainment options when they’re not attending their games.

With all that said, your point is well taken, but I don’t think the NCAA would move the finals to one single location permanently. It has and will continue to be rotated to various venues around the country.
I'm not sure that you understood my comment to just be sarcasm, meaning UCONN will always be in the tourney's!
Happy Dance GIF
 
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Your concern is valid. But I think there are two ways of looking at a combined tournament. First, will combining the men’s and women’s games be more profitable than having them at different venues? Keep in mind that the NCAA is looking at this possibility from a financial and equitable point of view. They are not concerned with the fan’s concerns or points of view. To them, they believe in the corporate business mantra: "if it makes dollars, it makes sense.

Second, WCBB will NEVER be as popular or attractive to the masses as the men’s game. I don’t think combining the two will damage the perception or integrity of the women’s game. Fans that don’t like or respect the women’s game now won’t think any less of it then.

Combining the two might attract a “crossover“ contingent of fans that might become fans of the women’s game after they’ve had the chance to watch some games in person. If you’re watching the game on TV, it doesn’t make any difference to you whether the games are combined or not.

Combining the games will invite more media coverage than there may have been because they are already there to cover the men. Let's be real here. There are some media outlets that only cover the men's tournament. There are some potential advantages of combining the two final four games. Real true basketball fan will buy a 4 game tournament pass to see all 4 games. They know they are going to see the 4 best teams in the country, and THAT is worth the price of admission. If it doesn’t work, they can always return to hosting them at separate venues.
There are an awful lot of assumptions in your statement. Lets see how the changing NCAA rules on transfers and pay to play impact both men and women. If men’s talent goes to the highest bidder and team rosters change each year, which seems more likely for the men that the women, I personally will lose interest in the men, just like I have for the NBA.
Likewise the immediate bandwagon for Vegas. Hotel’s are already hard to come by for both tournaments in different cities as are flights. You just compound the problem by having them overlap. Not a lot of thought has gone into this. Does Vegas have enough locker rooms to host more teams???
Lastly, having been to 10 women’s final fours, I like going to different cities. San Antonio, New Orleans and Orlando to name a few are far more attractive to me than Vegas.
 
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