More UConn to ACC smoke, assuming Notre Dame comes too

[uconnbaseball]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/s...on-reverberating-conference-commissioners-say

I have seen many Internet rumors about the ACC-UConn tango (even on a Rice message board). But they will not expand without Notre Dame...perhaps we are a double agent, and our invitation hinges upon ou ability to coax the Irish to come with us.

 

[NutmegState]

The next bit of new news ESPN has during realignment will be the first. You know better...

 

[uconnbaseball]

The next bit of new news ESPN has during realignment will be the first. You know better...

no i don't

 

[epark88]

Any news concerning the Big East and realignment has an agenda attached to it...

 

[06029]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/s...on-reverberating-conference-commissioners-say

I have seen many Internet rumors about the ACC-UConn tango (even on a Rice message board). But they will not expand without Notre Dame...perhaps we are a double agent, and our invitation hinges upon ou ability to coax the Irish to come with us.

If Uconn's fate s tied to ND, then Uconn will be in the BE forever. ND will never willingly give up their FB independence and the BE is the ONLY conference in the country that will give them cake, add some ice cream on top, let them eat it and then pay them for the honor of watching them eat it. if this is true, then Uconn needs to be working for some change to the BCS formula that forces ND into a conference and the hope they are a tag along with ND even if it kills the BE FB status in the BCS. Nobody will get ND in a conference for FB until the rules force them there.

 

[uconnbaseball]

I am convinced that the Big East will hold up so long Notre Dame stays here. Either they stay and we keep an AQ bid, or Notre Dame leaves and we goes to another AQ conference.

 

[Jericho]

I am convinced that the Big East will hold up so long Notre Dame stays here. Either they stay and we keep an AQ bid, or Notre Dame leaves and we goes to another AQ conference.

Might be the other way around. Notre Dame will stay here as long as the Big East holds up. The question is what does "hold up" mean? At what point does Notre Dame feel it needs to join another conference? I get the impression the school would not be happy being football independent if its other sports had to play in a "Catholic league" conference. And I'd imagine the school would not be thrilled playing in a glorified C-USA, which would be the situation if the football schools split off (which the contain 6 schools that left C-USA in the last decade). UConn and Louisville seem the lynchpins. If either leaves, does it trigger another move? While one can wait for the Big 12 to come woo Louisville, maybe the ACC would try and poach UConn to force Notre Dame's hand (you know the ACC would love a full member Notre Dame and Notre Dame seems to favor the ACC too)

 

[UConner]

As long as Notre Dame has their own television deal they will stay independent. They keep saying that every time. So UConn to the ACC is in the hands of NBC. I'm looking to develop our San Diego State rivalry. Mid-November road trip to great weather sounds better than most of the bowls we can get.

 

[husky91]

Umm, no, the Big East was a poorly designed and flawed conference. When everyone knew football would rule the roost 10-15 years ago the BE was cobbling together some goofy hybrid model.

How many NC Champs in hoops have 'Nova, SJU, SHU, Gtown or Prov won in last 10 years?

Any news concerning the Big East and realignment has an agenda attached to it...

 

[ctchamps]

Umm, no, the Big East was a poorly designed and flawed conference. When everyone knew football would rule the roost 10-15 years ago the BE was cobbling together some goofy hybrid model.

How many NC Champs in hoops have 'Nova, SJU, SHU, Gtown or Prov won in last 10 years?

And UConn was a basketball school and a big part of the problem.

 

[NHUConnfan]

Umm, no, the Big East was a poorly designed and flawed conference. When everyone knew football would rule the roost 10-15 years ago the BE was cobbling together some goofy hybrid model.

How many NC Champs in hoops have 'Nova, SJU, SHU, Gtown or Prov won in last 10 years?

Conversely...how many different ACC schools won the championship? How many Big 10? How many SEC? Etc. etc. Your point is extremely flawed.

 

[freescooter]

Ultimately, the ACC will do what is best for the ACC and Notre Dame will, as they always have done, dop what is best for Notre Dame. I don'ty think anyone thinks that ND has any intention of playing basketball in a high mid-major conference, which despite what some people think, is what the Big East is without UCONN and Louisville and to a lesser extent Cincy. People seem to miss the point that it has been over a quarter of a Century since Georgetown and Villanova won National Championships. Over that time period they each have 1 Final Four appearance. Over that 25 year peiod, Butler, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, LSU, Florida, Michigan State, all have multiple appearances. VCU, George Mason, Mississippi State, Marquette, Cincinatti, UMass, Minnesota, Texas all have as many Final fours and Georgetown and Villanova. the idea that somehow these two teams are epic national powers is based on in one case, a 4 year run in the early 1980s and in theother a single game. Neither has been more than a marginal national player since. But in some ways, the idea of Georgetown and Villanova, and to a lesser degree St Johns, has been a huge problem for the Big East. The football schools had to deal with them as if they were these national powers, when the reality is that UCONN Syracuse Pitt, Louisville Cincy, West Virgin1a were all more relevent over the past 15 years.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

I honestly think that having UConn and the hoops schools around will be enough for Notre Dame to stay in the Big East long term so if we are waiting for them to go ACC first and take us with them we will be waiting a very long time. Even if the ACC invited us first to try to force Notre Dame's hand there is no certainty that it would work which is why they aren't going to try it, especially since the Big 12 has publicly stated that they would consider taking them without football.

 

[businesslawyer]

Ultimately, the ACC will do what is best for the ACC and Notre Dame will, as they always have done, dop what is best for Notre Dame. I don'ty think anyone thinks that ND has any intention of playing basketball in a high mid-major conference, which despite what some people think, is what the Big East is without UCONN and Louisville and to a lesser extent Cincy. People seem to miss the point that it has been over a quarter of a Century since Georgetown and Villanova won National Championships. Over that time period they each have 1 Final Four appearance. Over that 25 year peiod, Butler, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, LSU, Florida, Michigan State, all have multiple appearances. VCU, George Mason, Mississippi State, Marquette, Cincinatti, UMass, Minnesota, Texas all have as many Final fours and Georgetown and Villanova. the idea that somehow these two teams are epic national powers is based on in one case, a 4 year run in the early 1980s and in theother a single game. Neither has been more than a marginal national player since. But in some ways, the idea of Georgetown and Villanova, and to a lesser degree St Johns, has been a huge problem for the Big East. The football schools had to deal with them as if they were these national powers, when the reality is that UCONN Syracuse Pitt, Louisville Cincy, West Virgin1a were all more relevent over the past 15 years.

Why do you think that is? Because everyone but those of us who analyze it on the Boneyard is stupid? Or because, to a large degree, the power of delivering good TV ratings does depend in large part on how you did 25 years ago?

 

[Hoophound]

I honestly think that having UConn and the hoops schools around will be enough for Notre Dame to stay in the Big East long term so if we are waiting for them to go ACC first and take us with them we will be waiting a very long time. Even if the ACC invited us first to try to force Notre Dame's hand there is no certainty that it would work which is why they aren't going to try it, especially since the Big 12 has publicly stated that they would consider taking them without football.

I think the ACC may try this tactic if the B12 takes Louisville. Taking UConn would then have more effect than it will right now. Louisville and UConn leaving the Big East would definately send ND looking for options. ND would realize that the end of independance is in sight and go to the B10 or ACC at that point. I doubt they park in the B12 in other sports at that point because it clearly isnt a long term solution and probably just delays the inevitable by 1-3 years at most.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

I think the ACC may try this tactic if the B12 takes Louisville. Taking UConn would then have more effect than it will right now. Louisville and UConn leaving the Big East would definately send ND looking for options. ND would realize that the end of independance is in sight and go to the B10 or ACC at that point. I doubt they park in the B12 in other sports at that point because it clearly isnt a long term solution and probably just delays the inevitable by 1-3 years at most.

I think that they would go B12 first if it meant maintaining football independence. They would probably convince the B12 to take Rutgers and Louisville for a 12 team fb conference and just play with 13 in other sports. I don't see why that would be short term for them. With 5 power conferences their dreaded 4x16 superconference scenario would still be pretty far off. However, I encourage the ACC to try this and offer us a spot anyway just so we can be sure. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the reason there has been some suggestions that the B12 may be looking at Rutgers.

 

[freescooter]

I think that they would go B12 first if it meant maintaining football independence. They would probably convince the B12 to take Rutgers and Louisville for a 12 team fb conference and just play with 13 in other sports. I don't see why that would be short term for them. With 5 power conferences their dreaded 4x16 superconference scenario would still be pretty far off. However, I encourage the ACC to try this and offer us a spot anyway just so we can be sure. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the reason there has been some suggestions that the B12 may be looking at Rutgers.

I doubt the Big 12 ever seriously considered taking Notre Dame for all sports...but beyond that the B-12 solution doesn't really work that well for ND for "all sports." It means they would still have to find a home for a couple of sports that they are pretty good at like mens soccer and lacrosse, both of which are offered by the Big East and the ACC. And while I'm not saying either would be a deal breaker, as you need to find more and more "homes" for your non-revenue sports, especially if they are good programs, it becomes more and more difficult and potentially more costly.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

I doubt the Big 12 ever seriously considered taking Notre Dame for all sports...but beyond that the B-12 solution doesn't really work that well for ND for "all sports." It means they would still have to find a home for a couple of sports that they are pretty good at like mens soccer and lacrosse, both of which are offered by the Big East and the ACC. And while I'm not saying either would be a deal breaker, as you need to find more and more "homes" for your non-revenue sports, especially if they are good programs, it becomes more and more difficult and potentially more costly.

True, but the B12 certainly would have the resources to sponser men's soccer and lacrosse if they wanted to and football independence is a huge deal for Notre Dame. I think that is the deal breaker that keeps them out of the ACC anytime soon. Bottom line, IMO is that if Rutgers and Louisville get invited to the B12 we better beg Notre Dame to stay in the Big East with us or we'll be in huge trouble.

 

[freescooter]

The point is

Why do you think that is? Because everyone but those of us who analyze it on the Boneyard is stupid? Or because, to a large degree, the power of delivering good TV ratings does depend in large part on how you did 25 years ago?

The point is that they are becoming less and less relevent nationally and detached form UCONN and Louisville would likely fall in relevence even further. I suspect that their tv ratings have less and less to do with 1980s success and more to do with location and the cache of the Big East. And that will continue to be the case over the next decade or so. Take away the Big East power schools, as has slowly but surely been happening, and Georgetwon and Villanova eventually become St Boneventures.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The point is

The point is that they are becoming less and less relevent nationally and detached form UCONN and Louisville would likely fall in relevence even further. I suspect that their tv ratings have less and less to do with 1980s success and more to do with location and the cache of the Big East. And that will continue to be the case over the next decade or so. Take away the Big East power schools, as has slowly but surely been happening, and Georgetwon and Villanova eventually become St Boneventures.

They would be WORSE than other non-football playing programs? Why?

 

[RS9999X]

Take away the Big East power schools, as has slowly but surely been happening, and Georgetwon and Villanova eventually become St Boneventures.

Or join Xavier and thumb their noses at football schools and offer a Catholic Network EWTN II.

1. Gonzaga
2. Marquette
3. Notre Dame
4. St Johns
5. Dayton
6. Georgetown
7. Villanova
8. Creighton
9. Xavier
10. Saint Louis
11. Providence
12. Seton Hall
13 St Mary's
14. Richmond
15. Depaul
16 Duquesne

They'd get 7 teams in the NCAA every year. Sometimes more/

 

[BlueMAB]

Or join Xavier and thumb their noses at football schools and offer a Catholic Network EWTN II.

1. Gonzaga
2. Marquette
3. Notre Dame
4. St Johns
5. Dayton
6. Georgetown
7. Villanova
8. Creighton
9. Xavier
10. Saint Louis
11. Providence
12. Seton Hall
13 St Mary's
14. Richmond
15. Depaul
16 Duquesne

They'd get 7 teams in the NCAA every year. Sometimes more/

Not necessarily. Like we see in the big east, some of those teams would knock each other out of the tourney. Some of those teams have enjoyed inflated records due to weaker schedules. Put them in a tougher conference with a harder schedule and you can't assume they would have the same results and remain yearly tournament partcipants.

 

[06029]

Take away the Big East power schools, as has slowly but surely been happening, and Georgetwon and Villanova eventually become St Boneventures.

Because DC and Philly have the same appeal as Olean, NY. Could you have picked a worse analogy?

The BB only schools can stand on their own as a solid Tier 1 BB conference if they add Xavier and some other school in the Northeast like a St. Joes or even Butler, if they want to expand further to the midwest, for the same reason the BE stood as a power conference when it began, major market teams with deep pockets of talent to recruit. As good a conference as the BE 2010 and 2011, probably not but every bit as strong as the B1G and SEC.

To some of the other points in this thread, I do not believe there is any major conference beyond the BE that would give ND an all but FB deal. They do not have to do it and the ND non-football sports can not be that big of a draw. If they were, don't you think NBC would have gift wrapped a deal for them too? The Big 12 rumor was just that and I would be easily convinced that ND floated that rumor just to see if it could get legs. The B1G pretty much shut down that idea as did the ACC by saying they believe in equal sharing among conference members.

 

[freescooter]

06029,I agree with the 2nd part of your post. the first part, not so much. The fact is that the world has changed and changed pretty dramatically since the Big East was founded. That model simply can't be replicated for basketball only schools. the A-10 has virtually an overlapping footprint, with a bunch of schools which are soley focused on baksetball, yet can't even come close. And you'd be hard pressed to find another league who would even come close among the mid-majors. Since 2000 (and I choose that because that was th eyear UCONN officially began its transition to 1A football), there have been exactly 2 Big East Champs who don't play 1A football and exactly 4 out of a possilbe 24 conference finalists. St Johns won it in 2000, Georgetown in 2007. Georgetown and the Johnnies are the only non-football teams to make it to the finals in MSG. Those schools have simply not kept up with the majors. Georgetwon is the only one that has been even close. adding Xavier, another top 15-25ish program isn't going to make them aanymore than they already are.

 

[RS9999X]

Not necessarily. Like we see in the big east, some of those teams would knock each other out of the tourney. Some of those teams have enjoyed inflated records due to weaker schedules. Put them in a tougher conference with a harder schedule and you can't assume they would have the same results and remain yearly tournament partcipants.

I think we can assume Xavier can beat Cincy's sorry butt any day of the week .