Mel Greenberg asks, Is the women's Big East now a mid-major?

[pap49cba]

LINK

 

[Icebear]

That a loyalist like Mel Greenberg even asks that question of both the Big East and AAC is not a good sign.

 

[01Neaggrad02]

What difference does it make to us now?

 

[tomcat]

This is one symptom of what I've been worried about since the conference shakeups began to happen. I think Mel is simply being provocative in suggesting that UConn might be heralded as the best mid-major, but his analysis of the BigEast seems right to me. Problem is, UConn (and for this year, L'ville) aside, if you were to schedule AAC teams against BigEast teams, well, there would be some pretty ugly basketball at times, and I am just not sure which league would win more games. And that is against the league that Mel is calling mid-major.

And yes, there is nothing that can be done about it now, but it really, really would make a difference -- and not a good one -- if the public perception of the AAC (and UConn's role in it) drifts in that direction. Which is why. IMHO, Geno's words, that UConn is in a league of its own, were more than typically glib Geno-ness.

The team may try to brand itself in a way that's similar to what Notre Dame football was like for years (and to a certain extent, I guess, still is). From the point of view of image and brand, and what those mean to recruits, their parents and AAU coaches, that is the only way I can think they can present themselves without acknowledging damage to their image.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

This is one symptom of what I've been worried about since the conference shakeups began to happen. I think Mel is simply being provocative in suggesting that UConn might be heralded as the best mid-major, but his analysis of the BigEast seems right to me. Problem is, UConn (and for this year, L'ville) aside, if you were to schedule AAC teams against BigEast teams, well, there would be some pretty ugly basketball at times, and I am just not sure which league would win more games. And that is against the league that Mel is calling mid-major.

And yes, there is nothing that can be done about it now, but it really, really would make a difference -- and not a good one -- if the public perception of the AAC (and UConn's role in it) drifts in that direction. Which is why. IMHO, Geno's words, that UConn is in a league of its own, were more than typically glib Geno-ness.

The team may try to brand itself in a way that's similar to what Notre Dame football was like for years (and to a certain extent, I guess, still is). From the point of view of image and brand, and what those mean to recruits, their parents and AAU coaches, that is the only way I can think they can present themselves without acknowledging damage to their image.

Your final point is well put; I was trying to say the same thing in another thread and didn't do it half so well. The Geno / UConn brand in Women's Basketball is unique (as was the Summit / Tennessee brand for years).

And technically, while Mel is being "cute", UConn will be the best mid-major out there as long as they are in the AAC. My argument continues to be that it means nothing in any significant way in the immediate future.

I really like your point about who would win more games between BE and AAC. I couldn't begin to guess.

 

[UcMiami]

It is a valid question if you care about that designation ... but then hasn't the Pac10 for the last two decades lived in that kind of limbo as well - good mid majors get two to three teams into the NCAAs - about what the Pac10 has looked like over that period.

 

[Icebear]

It is a valid question if you care about that designation ... but then hasn't the Pac10 for the last two decades lived in that kind of limbo as well - good mid majors get two to three teams into the NCAAs - about what the Pac10 has looked like over that period.

I'm more concerned about the image it places in the minds of the fans who read those type of articles. Perception has a habit of manifesting reality if one doesn't pay attention.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

It is a valid question if you care about that designation ... but then hasn't the Pac10 for the last two decades lived in that kind of limbo as well - good mid majors get two to three teams into the NCAAs - about what the Pac10 has looked like over that period.

No. With the exception of the A10 (which the selection committee traditionally treats as a sort of mini-major conference - RU fan Beknighted, our stats guy, has documented this) I cannot think of one mid-major to consistently get 2 or 3 teams in. At one time I thought the Mountain West was going to accomplish it, but not so much. Also, Pac12 teams are not likely automatic one and done, which is the fate of a second mid-major team from a conference.

Put another way, WBB is not MBB. But UConn is a power program that might be considered stuck in a mid-major conference. Every other team in those conferences is a mid-major team wishing to become a power team. Big difference.

The Pac's issues, among others, include a group of truly awful teams, a tendency not to play very competitive out of conference schedules (looks stepped up this year, for many), and a grinding dominance by Stanford and a second and maybe third team which varied (often ASU, sometimes UCLA, sometimes Washington).

The other point is that the Pac is one of the best football conferences this year (it must be true, they said it on Sportscenter); has had strong men's basketball, and is quite dominant in the so-called Olympic Sports (although that has slipped as other conferences have stepped up). I recently heard it argued that, while the SEC is perhaps the best over-all sports conference, the B1G and Pac are the best "conferences" - when viewed both athletically and educationally.

 

[tomcat]

I'm more concerned about the image it places in the minds of the fans who read those type of articles. Perception has a habit of manifesting reality if one doesn't pay attention.

Now this is exactly what I mean. A good part of the work that I do has to do with public relations, where there are times when you have to treat perception and reality exactly the same way. This is something that goes against the grain for a lot of folks, who simply figure that because UConn is objectively better than the vast majority of schools, it should automatically be treated with the deference it deserves.

But the fact is that recruiters talk a lot of trash about opponents and, just as with La tech and ODU, they are likely to point out that UConn is a great team in a wannabe league.

 

[ed4ourgirls]

Graham Hays, in the introduction to ESPN's preseason top 10 mid-major preseason poll, says

"For at least this season, we're going to keep it simple. Teams from the Big East and American
are ineligible for these rankings . . ."

 

[tomcat]

And so it begins. Give it a year, and let's see what Graham and others say next year. Sigh.

 

[mhshuskies]

Of course the answer is YES but not just for women bb, for men bb also. The conference should simply be renamed to reflect reality: The Big LEAST.

 

[ed4ourgirls]

On the men's side, maybe not so bad. In addition to UConn, teams that are or have been
highly ranked are Cincinnati, Memphis, and Houston.