Male Practice Players: what's their status?

[bags27]

On a ND board, there's a discussion of whether NCAA rules allow their male practice players (let's call them: MPP) to stay on campus during spring break with room and board supplied by the university, and whether those practice players are permitted to travel with the team to the tournament.

I had no idea that MPP were so regulated by NCAA rules. Are MPP unique to WCBB or are they also used in (say) women's lacrosse, women's ice hockey, etc? And, isn't it a bit strange, when you come to think about it, that women use men to improve their athletic skills? I mean, why then don't college men's teams use male ex-professional players to practice against? Or do they? I always thought MPP was an informal arrangement. But the fact that it's so formalized makes it seem like a throw back to an earlier era of women's college sports when women weren't considered so capable of doing things for themselves.

Ok, I'm ducking now.

 

[UCAP_Fan]

Here is what I know. At one Final Four a few years ago, I spoke to a group of UCONN male practice players. I asked them if they had to pay their way to the game and said yes. They have to pay for everything themselves. Food, Hotel, everything. They do not practice with the team other than at home.

They are regulated by the NCAA and over the years there has been attempts to do away with MPP's.

At UCONN there is prestige to be a MPP.

 

[oldude]

Bags, the answer is no. The NCAA greatly restricts any benefit that male practice players can receive to basically “nothing at all.”

Practice players must be active students that comply with all NCAA eligibility requirements including course load and GPA. They have 5 years only to serve as practice players. They can not receive financial assistance of any kind to be practice players and can not be scholarship athletes in basketball or any other sport.

They cannot receive room or board at anytime. The team cannot even provide them with practice uniforms.

Practice players can receive “need based” financial aid so long as it’s part of the regular application process available to all students.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Well, on some university campuses they cannot be referred to as male. I don't suppose that helps though.

 

[Centerstream]

Well, on some university campuses they cannot be referred to as male. I don't suppose that helps though.

Ah, the new millennium...

 

[CocoHusky]

On a ND board, there's a discussion of whether NCAA rules allow their male practice players (let's call them: MPP) to stay on campus during spring break with room and board supplied by the university, and whether those practice players are permitted to travel with the team to the tournament.
I had no idea that MPP were so regulated by NCAA rules. Are MPP unique to WCBB or are they also used in (say) women's lacrosse, women's ice hockey, etc? And, isn't it a bit strange, when you come to think about it, that women use men to improve their athletic skills? I mean, why then don't college men's teams use male ex-professional players to practice against? Or do they? I always thought MPP was an informal arrangement. But the fact that it's so formalized makes it seem like a throw back to an earlier era of women's college sports when women weren't considered so capable of doing things for themselves.
Ok, I'm ducking now.

The MPP are so regulated by the NCAA right down to the number of pairs of shorts that the school can provide. There is a great UCONN tradition where the MPP pay their own way (4 in a motel room) to the FF. These are great egoless players whose contribution to the program is immense not just at UCONN but at some other programs as well.

UCONN WOMEN: A few good men helping Huskies refine their game (video)

BTW the practice of using male practice players was one of many HoF Cathy Rush WCBB innovations and dates back to her time coaching at Immaculata. I ‘m always touting the movie “Mighty Macs”.

 

[CL82]

I always thought MPP was an informal arrangement. But the fact that it's so formalized makes it seem like a throw back to an earlier era of women's college sports when women weren't considered so capable of doing things for themselves.

C'mon Bags, you know better. Men are stronger and quicker, on average, than women. Geno limits what the MPP can do in order to make them a more effective tool. That's the advantage of using them. Geno can dial up as much pressure or athleticism as he chooses for any given scenario.

The UConn MPP are a great but unheralded part of the UConn WBB tradition.

 

[bags27]

I'm not disputing that men are stronger, etc. nor the tradition of its use. I question why WCBB. Is it unique there? and why do women need to play against men to improve?

If the NCAA outlawed the use of practice against anyone but someone on the team, all the teams would have an equal playing field and the subs would get a great deal more practice time. I just think MPP is a throw-back to an earlier time when there wasn't enough good competition on the top teams.

 

[oldude]

I'm not disputing that men are stronger, etc. nor the tradition of its use. I question why WCBB. Is it unique there? and why do women need to play against men to improve?

If the NCAA outlawed the use of practice against anyone but someone on the team, all the teams would have an equal playing field and the subs would get a great deal more practice time. I just think MPP is a throw-back to an earlier time when there wasn't enough good competition on the top teams.

While I like the idea of getting the subs more practice time, I have to say that in all the years I played team sports like football and basketball, practicing against the reserves was seldom much of a challenge. Occasionally, you would get 1 or 2 reserves that would go hard all the time, and challenge you, but most are overmatched.

Male practice players provide WBB teams with something that MBB teams would love to have; physically superior athletes who can challenge them every day in practice.

 

[GiladKatzDeli]

I was a male practice player for 4 years at Fordham (A10). I never received or asked for anything, just showed up on time and practiced hard. In certain instances, I'd review game film on opposing players I was supposed to emulate in practice. As a group, the male practice players were like an above average high school team. A few could dunk and were good athletes; some could have played D2 or D3. The practices were competitive. Like Notre Dame, our team was bit by the injury bug one year and only had 7 healthy scholarship players. If it weren't for the practice players the team wouldn't have been able to practice 5x5. Was a great experience helping the team get prepared and also continue getting a basketball education.

 

[OldAlum]

I don't see what the great mystery is. The MPP are more able to simulate the top individuals and teams that our team would face. Most of the subs cant do that or they wouldn't be subs! Males are used because you can find guys with enough height, ability and training on campus. Again, any females with these attributes would be on the team. (It also provides more players at any one time for various drills)

 

[bags27]

I don't see what the great mystery is. The MPP are more able to simulate the top individuals and teams that our team would face.

No, actually, they're superior in strength and often in quickness (men tend to have more fast twitch) but inferior in team coordination, since they're really not a team, but 5 guys who scrimmage.

And, while I do appreciate the frustration I'm causing (notice I said at the beginning that I'm ducking), I'm still asking:

• does this happen in other women's sports as well?
• Does it happen in men's sports (do they import some sort of "ringers" to practice)?
• Can we imagine a way in which women don't need men to improve their game?

 

[Checkmate]

How many MPP does UConn have? Are there tryouts?

 

[SVCBeercats]

I'm not disputing that men are stronger, etc. nor the tradition of its use. I question why WCBB. Is it unique there? and why do women need to play against men to improve?
If the NCAA outlawed the use of practice against anyone but someone on the team, all the teams would have an equal playing field and the subs would get a great deal more practice time. I just think MPP is a throw-back to an earlier time when there wasn't enough good competition on the top teams

when there wasn't enough good competition on the top teams When Geno is limited to a 6 player rotation; there isn't enough good competition on his team for practice.

why do women need to play against men to improve?
Ask yourself why would Geno want to use male practice players? The answer has been provided by Geno on several occasions. Why would Geno not want to use his "bench" players as practice competition? Visualize the 4th quarters of the blowouts in particular www.courant.com/sports/uconn-womens-basketball/hc-sp-uconn-women-tulsa-20180118-story.html

"Iron sharpens iron." Mike Tomlin, Pittsburgh Steelers Head Coach uses this phrase describing some aspects of his teams' practices.

 

[dogged1]

C'mon Bags, you know better. Men are stronger and quicker, on average, than women. Geno limits what the MPP can do in order to make them a more effective tool. That's the advantage of using them. Geno can dial up as much pressure or athleticism as he chooses for any given scenario.

The UConn MPP are a great but unheralded part of the UConn WBB tradition.

CL82, I know bigger, stronger and faster (as in point a to point b) is true, but is a male quicker, as in reaction or reflex time? I am not sure about that, that would seem to be a matter of neurological superiority an area where women generally outshine men.

 

[BigBird]

... I'm still asking: does this happen in other women's sports as well?

I am not 100% sure, but I think some women’s ice hockey teams do, and I am fairly sure Team USA does.

 

[meyers7]

The USWNT (soccer) occasionally scrimmages against U17 mens/boys academy level teams. Even once lost 5-2 to FC Dallas U15 team. But these are scrimmages.

 

[SVCBeercats]

No, actually, they're superior in strength and often in quickness (men tend to have more fast twitch) but inferior in team coordination, since they're really not a team, but 5 guys who scrimmage. Bags, Bags, Bags. Practically any 5 guys will play better as a team than the players you refer to as bench players and I refer to as the S word. You don't believe Geno teaches the MPPs what he wants them to simulate?

And, while I do appreciate the frustration I'm causing (notice I said at the beginning that I'm ducking), I'm still asking:

• does this happen in other women's sports as well?
• Does it happen in men's sports (do they import some sort of "ringers" to practice)? No need to. Talent on men's teams runs deep.
• Can we imagine a way in which women don't need men to improve their game? Ha! Ha! No.

Do you say these things and then sit back and have a good laugh at our bewildered responses?

 

[husky429]

practice players stay on campus, but they have to pay. That's what I did when I was a practice player in college.

Pay for everything, except you get the leftover shoes/practice unis and all that for free.

 

[oldude]

Another sport where male and female athletes compete in practice is HS wrestling. Girls HS wrestling has been around for a number of years, and women's wrestling was added to the Olympics in 2004. When it started out, most HS's could not field a full girls teams, so it is not uncommon for the girls to practice with the boys. Obviously, coaches need to insure that everyone conducts themselves properly.

Beyond practice, it is not uncommon for girls to actually wrestle boys in competitions, where there are a limited number of girls who compete. This is a Catch-22 if you're a boy wrestling a girl. You're expected to beat her and if you lose, you're marked for life as the guy who lost to a girl.

Years ago, my son wrestled, and while he never had to wrestle a girl, one of his teammates did. I remember that his teammate was pretty upset before the match, expressing his concern about wrestling a girl to his mother. His mother's advice to him was, "Kick her ass!"

You can always count on your mom to say the right thing.....

 

[CL82]

CL82, I know bigger, stronger and faster (as in point a to point b) is true, but is a male quicker, as in reaction or reflex time? I am not sure about that, that would seem to be a matter of neurological superiority an area where women generally outshine men.

Great distinction. The answer, IIRC, is that men do have significantly faster reaction times.

This isn't to say that any man will have a quicker response time than any woman, obviously. (If you took any of the girls on the team I suspect that they'd have a much quicker response time than the vast majority of men on the board due to age, athleticism and training.) But on average, particularly among similar classes (athletes) the difference is very significant.

Not a good thing or a bad thing, per se, but definitely a thing.

 

[GiladKatzDeli]

The USWNT (soccer) occasionally scrimmages against U17 mens/boys academy level teams. Even once lost 5-2 to FC Dallas U15 team. But these are scrimmages.

When Tony DiCicco was coach of the USWNT, they practiced at his son's high school in Windsor, and if I remember correctly also scrimmaged against his son's team.

 

[OldAlum]

Well, the team is constrained by needing to use only students from their university. Given that, using male students makes sense.
I am a feminist but it doesn't bother me that male players are used. I don't know that they absolutely need MPPs but they are a handy tool. (No, I am not calling the guys tools!)
I have no clue about other sports.

 

[SVCBeercats]

Girls HS wrestling ... When it started out, most HS's could not field a full girls teams, so it is not uncommon for the girls to practice with the boys. Obviously, coaches need to insure that everyone conducts themselves properly. Good luck! With all those raging hormones it would be a losing battle.

Beyond practice, it is not uncommon for girls to actually wrestle boys in competitions ...
You are forgetting about transgender HS wrestlers.

 

[JordyG]

As usual the NCAA must try to control every minute and movement of every player that plays CBB and football while they attempt to maintain the chimera of the amateur athlete. As usual everyone involved gets paid from the coaches to everyone in the NCAA, to every reporter, announcer and talking head on TV. Everyone makes a buck, but buy a player in one of these sports a hamburger because he's hungry or treat male practice players like humans and get sanctioned. While instead the NCAA produces an underground economy that goes unregulated, and cannot be stopped.