Loyola Chicago to the A10! | Page 3 | The Boneyard
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Loyola Chicago to the A10!

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So Villanova opposed to Penn State joining the Big East but enthusiastically endorsed Temple joining. Well that’s one hell of a record.
Nova endorsed Temple joining because it fit the need of the conference at the time.

Before the Big East contemplated sponsoring football, in its first few years, there was a decision to extend an invite to either Pitt or Penn State for the basketball centered conference. A majority of the conference favored Pitt. There are varying reports of how this played out, with some reporting that Nova was in the Pitt camp. At the time Pitt was perceived to have the better basketball program and was a city team with the Pittsburgh market. The majority viewed it as a better fit.
 
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Dec 2012 The C7 left the Big East
Notice Temple joined for football in 2012 but basketball was delayed until 2013 . I believe when Nova made that statement , leaving was a fait accompli.
When Nova took a leadership position in welcoming Temple, the C-7 split was far from certain. It likely wasn’t even conceived.

Fox took a lead in defining the move. The C-7 was very fortunate in the timing of the FS1 inauguration.

Temple’s position is unfortunate, but still better than its path prior the the invitation that landed them in the AAC.
 

CL82

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Nova endorsed Temple joining because it fit the need of the conference at the time.

Before the Big East contemplated sponsoring football, in its first few years, there was a decision to extend an invite to either Pitt or Penn State for the basketball centered conference. A majority of the conference favored Pitt. There are varying reports of how this played out, with some reporting that Nova was in the Pitt camp. At the time Pitt was perceived to have the better basketball program and was a city team with the Pittsburgh market. The majority viewed it as a better fit.
Nope, Penn State was voted down prior to Pitt getting an offer.
 

CL82

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When Nova took a leadership position in welcoming Temple, the C-7 split was far from certain. It likely wasn’t even conceived.

Fox took a lead in defining the move. The C-7 was very fortunate in the timing of the FS1 inauguration.

Temple’s position is unfortunate, but still better than its path prior the the invitation that landed them in the AAC.
The ugly little truth about the C7 split is had they stayed, all the C7 schools and the remaining Big East schools would have made more media money. So, thanks for that “leadership.”
 
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Nope, Penn State was voted down prior to Pitt getting an offer.
This is the correct timeline. Penn State was voted down by one vote (5-3; apparently that was the score of all five votes on the matter).

Georgetown, Syracuse, Providence & St. John's met to found the conference... initial invitations went out as follows:
Boston College (over Holy Cross, UMass, and BU)
UConn
Rutgers (declined to stay in the A8 (now A10) with Penn State) -> Seton Hall selected instead

Villanova was added a year later over Temple & St. Joes.

Then the Penn State decision came up. It's been widely reported the three no's were: Georgetown, St. John's & Villanova which had recently killed it's football program.

Pitt then was added to protect the league; kill Paterno's Eastern sports conference and retain Syracuse and BC.


Sources: Crouthamel's Big East History, Tranghese's NYT interview, assorted other sites
 

CL82

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This is the correct timeline. Penn State was voted down by one vote (5-3; apparently that was the score of all five votes on the matter).

Georgetown, Syracuse, Providence & St. John's met to found the conference... initial invitations went out as follows:
Boston College (over Holy Cross, UMass, and BU)
UConn
Rutgers (declined to stay in the A8 (now A10) with Penn State) -> Seton Hall selected instead

Villanova was added a year later over Temple & St. Joes.

Then the Penn State decision came up. It's been widely reported the three no's were: Georgetown, St. John's & Villanova which had recently killed it's football program.

Pitt then was added to protect the league; kill Paterno's Eastern sports conference and retain Syracuse and BC.


Sources: Crouthamel's Big East History, Tranghese's NYT interview, assorted other sites
I thought Holy Cross turned down an invitation as well. It’s interesting to think about what might’ve happened if they had gotten the nod over BC. Same with UMass.
 
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Although CR constantly changes things, I think it's shortsighted to think money first. Temple belongs, and would most likely thrive again, in a much better conference than the AAC. Get a program which will make the conference better and the money will come. Philly, NY, and New England are large enough for 2 programs.

Boston U
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They don't make the conference better unfortunately but I'd love to see a Boston program worthy of the Big East, or grow into that position. There just isn't one currently.

SUNY Stony Brook - If St. John's is gonna be asleep at the switch...
 
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Although CR constantly changes things, I think it's shortsighted to think money first. Temple belongs, and would most likely thrive again, in a much better conference than the AAC. Get a program which will make the conference better and the money will come. Philly, NY, and New England are large enough for 2 programs.

Boston U
Northeastern
They don't make the conference better unfortunately but I'd love to see a Boston program worthy of the Big East, or grow into that position. There just isn't one currently.

SUNY Stony Brook - If St. John's is gonna be asleep at the switch...
I would agree with you. . . if their downturn coincided with the AAC falling apart. But they really haven't been good since they left the A-10. And the AAC was a pretty good basketball league when they joined. And until Houston and Cincy leaves it's at least "okay." What's really killed them is Fran Dunphy fading into retirement and then a bad coaching hiring decision in McKie. McKie's record is 21-31 with no real appearance this season is going to be any better.
 

Vowelguy

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Although CR constantly changes things, I think it's shortsighted to think money first. Temple belongs, and would most likely thrive again, in a much better conference than the AAC. Get a program which will make the conference better and the money will come. Philly, NY, and New England are large enough for 2 programs.

Boston U
Northeastern
They don't make the conference better unfortunately but I'd love to see a Boston program worthy of the Big East, or grow into that position. There just isn't one currently.

SUNY Stony Brook - If St. John's is gonna be asleep at the switch...
Thrive again?
When did they thrive?

Last final four - 1958
Last E8 - 2001
 
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Thrive again?
When did they thrive?

Last final four - 1958
Last E8 - 2001
During the '80s and '90s the Owls were a perennial tournament team. They had 10 A-10 players of the year. That's a pretty solid run for an A-10 program. Given the Big East cachet and Temple's presence in a huge market, I see potential.
 
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When Nova took a leadership position in welcoming Temple, the C-7 split was far from certain. It likely wasn’t even conceived.

Fox took a lead in defining the move. The C-7 was very fortunate in the timing of the FS1 inauguration.

Temple’s position is unfortunate, but still better than its path prior the the invitation that landed them in the AAC.
Temple would have been in the AAC for football and the A10 for for everything else. football schools get 2/3 of the media deal.
That’s something they would take now in a heartbeat.
 
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Temple would have been in the AAC for football and the A10 for for everything else. football schools get 2/3 of the media deal.
That’s something they would take now in a heartbeat.
No in this case Zissou is correct. Temple was accepted as a full member for the Big East, joining football only 2012 and all sports 2013 before the Catholic schools bailed (they were the replacement invitation upon West Virginia's departure). In the process Villanova was given a $1M payout for their football facilities and promised additional funds if they were to upgrade the program and join the football schools. Villanova did not and as a result settled for the $1M payout.

"It's critical that the conference and both universities succeed in Philadelphia," said Villanova's president, the Rev. Peter M. Donohue. "Even as my loyalty and obligation is to Villanova, we recognized early on that we could achieve this win-win-win, which ultimately we did."

Temple even referred to it as the greatest day in Temple athletics.... and even if the invite hadn't come through then... upon the split Temple would've gotten the invite similar to how the AAC had to add Tulsa to get to 12.
 
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This is the correct timeline. Penn State was voted down by one vote (5-3; apparently that was the score of all five votes on the matter).

Georgetown, Syracuse, Providence & St. John's met to found the conference... initial invitations went out as follows:
Boston College (over Holy Cross, UMass, and BU)
UConn
Rutgers (declined to stay in the A8 (now A10) with Penn State) -> Seton Hall selected instead

Villanova was added a year later over Temple & St. Joes.

Then the Penn State decision came up. It's been widely reported the three no's were: Georgetown, St. John's & Villanova which had recently killed it's football program.

Pitt then was added to protect the league; kill Paterno's Eastern sports conference and retain Syracuse and BC.


Sources: Crouthamel's Big East History, Tranghese's NYT interview, assorted other sites
There are varying accounts, but the decision was as I initially characterized it: The Big East had a choice to add Pitt or Penn State. Pitt was favored as the better basketball program in the city market. Here is an account as you referenced:

Syracuse's Crouthamel explains what the Penn State application meant to the Conference:

"After only two years of existence as a conference formed specifically for men's basketball, football became an issue. Joe Paterno, head football coach and then Director of Athletics at Penn State, had been trying to put together an all-sports conference of the eastern Division IA independent schools. They included Syracuse, Boston College, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, West Virginia and Temple. While our football fortunes would be well served through such an alignment, it would have been a step backward for men's basketball. To enter into such an alignment, Syracuse and Boston College would have had to leave the BIG EAST. With the reluctance of B.C. and Syracuse to do so, Penn State then asked for membership in the BIG EAST. This was a turning point in the Conferences history. If Penn State was accepted, our football would be protected. If Penn State was rejected, B.C. and Syracuse might have no other option but to leave the BIG EAST, and join together with the other Eastern independents. To expand membership in The BIG EAST Conference, six affirmative votes were necessary. The vote was 5-3. Instead of taking Penn State, we invited Pittsburgh as the ninth member. At that time Pittsburgh and Penn State were bitter rivals, and Pittsburgh was less than enamored with aligning itself with Penn State. Pitt's membership in the BIG EAST, along with B.C. and Syracuse, checkmated Penn State's eastern all-sports conference, and gave the Conference one more Division IA school. This football issue nearly caused the premature demise of the BIG EAST. Clearly, three schools in the BIG EAST had no concept of the importance of football, but the others realized that this decision not to invite Penn State would come back to haunt us. In fact, football would dictate every future consideration of membership expansion of our 'basketball' conference."

Joe Paterno and his school needed six votes, and he received five. There is still controversy about who the three no votes were, and former Big East Executive Director Mike Tranghese said that Syracuse voted for Penn State.

Who were the three?

Paterno always believed that Boston College and Syracuse blackballed him, with the help of the Pitt administration.

The person whom Paterno blamed for the Big East rejection was Ed Bozik, an ally of Chancellor Wesley Posvar who became A.D. in Sept. 1982.

Bozik's tenure was controversial, but in his obituary in 1994, this line appeared: "Bozik was given much of the credit for Pitt's move into the Big East Conference in 1982."

In short, he was the man whom Paterno accused of arranging the blackballing of Penn State in 1982.

The galling part is that instead of Penn State gaining a spot in the Big East, that spot went to Pitt.
 
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There are some reports that JoePa denied ever formally asking for Big East membership.
 

CL82

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There are varying accounts, but the decision was as I initially characterized it: The Big East had a choice to add Pitt or Penn State
Nope. Are you the conference made two different decisions at two different times. One was the decision against the addition of Penn State that failed 5-3 and the other one was a later decision to add Pittsburgh.
 
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I thought Holy Cross turned down an invitation as well. It’s interesting to think about what might’ve happened if they had gotten the nod over BC. Same with UMass.
I thought this is what happened as well - also, the reason we were asked was because HC said no.
 

CL82

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I thought this is what happened as well - also, the reason we were asked was because HC said no.
No, we were asked at the same time. Remember the biggest conference was designed to take advantage of regional rivalries in the big markets on the East Coast. I suspect if anyone got in because Holy Cross refused it would probably be Boston College.

It would’ve been interesting if it was UMass though. That might have created a better anchor for New England sports than a small Catholic college that has literally no following whatsoever in Boston.
 
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No, we were asked at the same time. Remember the biggest conference was designed to take advantage of regional rivalries in the big markets on the East Coast. I suspect if anyone got in because Holy Cross refused it would probably be Boston College.

It would’ve been interesting if it was UMass though. That might have created a better anchor for New England sports than a small Catholic college that has literally no following whatsoever in Boston.
I don’t think that is the right context. Penn State tried, and failed, to set up a conference competitive to the Big East. Then pivoted to try to join the Big East.

The Big East considered Penn State and Pitt. It voted down Penn State knowing it would admit Pitt.

Instead of taking Penn State, we invited Pittsburgh as the ninth member. At that time Pittsburgh and Penn State were bitter rivals, and Pittsburgh was less than enamored with aligning itself with Penn State.

Accepting both Penn State and Pitt was not on the table.
 

CL82

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I don’t think that is the right context. Penn State tried, and failed, to set up a conference competitive to the Big East. Then pivoted to try to join the Big East.

The Big East considered Penn State and Pitt. It voted down Penn State knowing it would admit Pitt.

Instead of taking Penn State, we invited Pittsburgh as the ninth member. At that time Pittsburgh and Penn State were bitter rivals, and Pittsburgh was less than enamored with aligning itself with Penn State.

Accepting both Penn State and Pitt was not on the table.

Nope, it was not an either or choice. Not sure why you are looking for revisionist history here.
 
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Ju
Nope, it was not an either or choice. Not sure why you are looking for revisionist history here.
just the facts.

I don’t think it was crazy to choose Pitt over Penn State for a basketball conference.
 

CL82

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Ju

just the facts.

I don’t think it was crazy to choose Pitt over Penn State for a basketball conference.
Kind of the opposite of the facts.

D0278DAD-5B16-4B74-B73D-5C7ACD75EA5C.jpeg

If Villanova votes in favor of Penn State joining, in all likelihood the Big East conference is intact today as a P5 conference with a major media deal.
 
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