Lots of Silence from SEC and B-12

[UConnRock]

The SEC and the B-12 are the two conferences that do not have to play the ND waiting game a keep a spot open "just in case". This may not paly a huge role for the B-12 as they seemingly can take their time in deciding whether they go to 12-14 or higher.

The silence from the SEC could be telling. They wouldn't be waiting for Missouri this long, so it tells me that there is an agreement w/ Missouri but the question is whether Misouri will pay the big $$ and leave in 2012 or whether it will wait until 2013. The bigger question is whether the infighting about how the SEC divisions are arranged will ultimately force the SEC to go to 16. There are too many long-term rivals to keep everybody happy and it would end up being a mess regardless of which team is moved to the east. The easiest answer is for the SEC to add 2 eastern teams from (WVU, FSU, Clemson, and Va. Tech). WVU is easy pickings, and I have no doubt the SEC could get FSU or Clemson. Don't know if Va Tech will go, but as long as 1 ACC team goes it is good for UConn.

What is good for UConn, WVU, L'ville and Rutgers is not what is good for the BE conference. In fact what may be good for one of theabove teams may not be good for any other entity. This makes he entire BE expansion discussion very premature. This is what the hoops schools and the BE leaders are coming to grips with by rightfully waiting to offer invites. They should certainly wait for all the other moves to be made before restocking the conference.

I just get the feeling that something bigger is brewing in the SEC which is likely not a bad thing for UConn. The only negative would be the SEC taking 2 ACC teams, dropping the ACC back to 12 teams, and the ACC standing at 12. That will likely not happen as the ACC TV contract would take a huge hit if 2 top teams leave. They may not be able to replace them with equivalent football powers, but going with UConn and Rutgers would at least provide adequate media market replacement.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

The SEC and the B-12 are the two conferences that do not have to play the ND waiting game a keep a spot open "just in case". This may not paly a huge role for the B-12 as they seemingly can take their time in deciding whether they go to 12-14 or higher.

The silence from the SEC could be telling. They wouldn't be waiting for Missouri this long, so it tells me that there is an agreement w/ Missouri but the question is whether Misouri will pay the big $$ and leave in 2012 or whether it will wait until 2013. The bigger question is whether the infighting about how the SEC divisions are arranged will ultimately force the SEC to go to 16. There are too many long-term rivals to keep everybody happy and it would end up being a mess regardless of which team is moved to the east. The easiest answer is for the SEC to add 2 eastern teams from (WVU, FSU, Clemson, and Va. Tech). WVU is easy pickings, and I have no doubt the SEC could get FSU or Clemson. Don't know if Va Tech will go, but as long as 1 ACC team goes it is good for UConn.

What is good for UConn, WVU, L'ville and Rutgers is not what is good for the BE conference. This is what the hoops schools and the BE leaders are coming to grips with by rightfully waiting to offer invites. They should certainly wait for all the other moves to be made before restocking the conference. I just get the feeling that something bigger is brewing in the SEC which is likely not a bad thing fo UConn. The only negative would be the SEC taking 2 ACC teams, dropping the ACC back to 12 teams, and the ACC standing at 12. That will likely not happen as the ACC TV contract would take a huge hit if 2 top teams leave. They may not be able to replace them with equivalent football powers, but going with UConn and Rutgers would at least provide adequate media market replacement.

I agree to a large extent. It is the waiting that is killing us all. Best case scenario for all current Big East football schools is for 5 superconferences of 14 to 16 teams to emerge. That should allow everyone to find a home somewhere. The 4 superconferences would have left a couple out in the cold so having the Big 12 survive is in all of our best interests.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I think Missouri doesn't have the votes in the SEC yet, and Slive is trying to push it through. I think there is a large contingent in the SEC West that believes FSU is a no-brainer and Missouri is a poor substitute.

 

[ctchamps]

I agree to a large extent. It is the waiting that is killing us all. Best case scenario for all current Big East football schools is for 5 superconferences of 14 to 16 teams to emerge. That should allow everyone to find a home somewhere. The 4 superconferences would have left a couple out in the cold so having the Big 12 survive is in all of our best interests.

I would say it is the waiting, the lack of leverage and the consequences if the worst case scenario occurs for UConn that is making it difficult for all of us. I'm sure Missouri fans are a little more comfortable with the waiting game than UConn fans.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

I would say it is the waiting, the lack of leverage and the consequences if the worst case scenario occurs for UConn that is making it difficult for all of us. I'm sure Missouri fans are a little more comfortable with the waiting game than UConn fans.

Agreed.

 

[UConnSportsGuy]

It is one big circular argument. Someone will have to break down first and start the chain of events.

The SEC doesn't want to invite Missouri right now if they can get Florida State instead. Florida State is not willing to accept the SEC invite right now because they are willing to stay in the ACC if Notre Dame joins. Notre Dame will only join the ACC if the Big East falls apart. The Big East only falls apart if the Big 12 expands to 12 teams and takes a few Big East teams. And the Big 12 only expands to 12 if Missouri leaves for the SEC. So everyone is stuck holding a gun to each other's heads waiting for someone else to act first. Once one move goes down, the rest will follow. Or they will all just sit there starring each other down for the next couple of years until someone finally acts.

Or, the other thing that could set this off is this....the Big East will not expand to ensure their survival until the BE 6 commit. The BE 6 will not commit until the Big 12 and SEC make their decision. So if this drags on long enough, then you might see the BE basketball onlies say 'enough is enough' and say they have had enough with the football schools...they are not expanding under any circumstances. In which case, would then set off the BE collapse, and Notre Dame to the ACC chain of events in the above 'circle jerk'.

Either that, or the SEC gets sick of waiting for FSU and takes Missouri and sets this whole thing off as well.

And if that were about to happen.....then you can be sure as hell that the Big Ten will then want to get involved once the dominoes start falling (and possibly the PAC 12 too).

I have a feeling that is the situation we are currently in. Clear as mud?!

 

[freescooter]

I agree with Waylon, erh, nelson on this. I have read a few comments to the effect that there are other options out there, especially Florida State, that are much better fits than Missouri both from a divisional perspective and as a match. I also think there is still some interest among some SEC board members to consider a market in the Southeast, so they'd like to take a run at VT or one of the Carolina schools, most likely NC State.

 

[Danzz]

The SEC and the B-12 are the two conferences that do not have to play the ND waiting game a keep a spot open "just in case". This may not paly a huge role for the B-12 as they seemingly can take their time in deciding whether they go to 12-14 or higher.

The silence from the SEC could be telling. They wouldn't be waiting for Missouri this long, so it tells me that there is an agreement w/ Missouri but the question is whether Misouri will pay the big $$ and leave in 2012 or whether it will wait until 2013. The bigger question is whether the infighting about how the SEC divisions are arranged will ultimately force the SEC to go to 16. There are too many long-term rivals to keep everybody happy and it would end up being a mess regardless of which team is moved to the east. The easiest answer is for the SEC to add 2 eastern teams from (WVU, FSU, Clemson, and Va. Tech). WVU is easy pickings, and I have no doubt the SEC could get FSU or Clemson. Don't know if Va Tech will go, but as long as 1 ACC team goes it is good for UConn.

What is good for UConn, WVU, L'ville and Rutgers is not what is good for the BE conference. In fact what may be good for one of theabove teams may not be good for any other entity. This makes he entire BE expansion discussion very premature. This is what the hoops schools and the BE leaders are coming to grips with by rightfully waiting to offer invites. They should certainly wait for all the other moves to be made before restocking the conference.

I just get the feeling that something bigger is brewing in the SEC which is likely not a bad thing for UConn. The only negative would be the SEC taking 2 ACC teams, dropping the ACC back to 12 teams, and the ACC standing at 12. That will likely not happen as the ACC TV contract would take a huge hit if 2 top teams leave. They may not be able to replace them with equivalent football powers, but going with UConn and Rutgers would at least provide adequate media market replacement.

"The only negative would be the SEC taking 2 ACC teams"
The ACC $12mm exit fee may also be a factor for teams leaving the conference. At one time not very long ago many thought that the BE wasn't being proactive enough once Cuse and Pitt left. Patience may be the best policy now. The football schools the BE is considering don't appear to be going anywhere so there is time to extend offers. Every school has serious doubts about the future of the BE and would want assurances that Uconn, Rutgers, WVA and Cinn. are staying.
If the SEC takes FSU and Missouri we would have an outstanding chance with the ACC despite BC. Hard to know what the ACC is thinking but it is more likely that the ACC will add 2 schools if they lose 2. Maybe not. We really haven't had any news in awhile.

 

[uc1974]

We're on a roundabout with several other cars. We're going to keep going round and round until somebody decides to take an exit or there is an accident.

 

[BBNBE]

"The only negative would be the SEC taking 2 ACC teams"
The ACC $12mm exit fee may also be a factor for teams leaving the conference. At one time not very long ago many thought that the BE wasn't being proactive enough once Cuse and Pitt left. Patience may be the best policy now. The football schools the BE is considering don't appear to be going anywhere so there is time to extend offers. Every school has serious doubts about the future of the BE and would want assurances that Uconn, Rutgers, WVA and Cinn. are staying.
If the SEC takes FSU and Missouri we would have an outstanding chance with the ACC despite BC. Hard to know what the ACC is thinking but it is more likely that the ACC will add 2 schools if they lose 2. Maybe not. We really haven't had any news in awhile.

Could the ACC operate at an odd number? The B-10 did for years, but without a conference championship. Is it written someplace you need a even number of teams in the divisions to have a CCG?

 

[mets1090]

Could the ACC operate at an odd number? The B-10 did for years, but without a conference championship. Is it written someplace you need a even number of teams in the divisions to have a CCG?

I don't know if it is a rule or not but I can't imagine having one division with 7 and the other with 8 teams. That would give a pretty significant advantage to the teams in the 7 team advantage, only having to beat out 6 teams for a shot at the title.

 

[Danzz]

Could the ACC operate at an odd number? The B-10 did for years, but without a conference championship. Is it written someplace you need a even number of teams in the divisions to have a CCG?

Unlikely but it could happen if the schools have a voting deadlock. Right now it seems like all the conferences are sitting back waiting for the next domino to fall.

 

[arnie3]

I think Missouri doesn't have the votes in the SEC yet, and Slive is trying to push it through. I think there is a large contingent in the SEC West that believes FSU is a no-brainer and Missouri is a poor substitute.

That's what is being said on the KU board. I don't think that MU would mull over this if they were invited. They would accept.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

If the SEC offers FSU, FSU is gone. They are not making the SEC wait, the SEC, mostly Florida, is making FSU wait.

 

[The Funster]

A lot of people thought that there would be a race to 16. I don't think anybody wants it right now. Perhaps if the Pac had successfully raided the Big 12 that would have happened but once that fell through, everything has stagnated. Many had also congratulated Swofford on moving to 14 but now it's apparent it wasn't some pre-emptive master stroke but instead was a move simply to backpedal from a below market contract and trigger a renegotiation.

I wonder if Swofford had known that Texas and Okla were not going to the Pac would he have made the move for Cuse and Pitt. I think it's 50/50. I think he thought he was killing two birds with one stone. Staying ahead of the expansion curve and giving him the chance to renegotiate the mediocre deal he had. When the Pac expansion fell through he wasn't ahead of anything, really.

 

[businesslawyer]

A lot of people thought that there would be a race to 16. I don't think anybody wants it right now. Perhaps if the Pac had successfully raided the Big 12 that would have happened but once that fell through, everything has stagnated. Many had also congratulated Swofford on moving to 14 but now it's apparent it wasn't some pre-emptive master stroke but instead was a move simply to backpedal from a below market contract and trigger a renegotiation.

I wonder if Swofford had known that Texas and Okla were not going to the Pac would he have made the move for Cuse and Pitt. I think it's 50/50. I think he thought he was killing two birds with one stone. Staying ahead of the expansion curve and giving him the chance to renegotiate the mediocre deal he had. When the Pac expansion fell through he wasn't ahead of anything, really.

No. He did get ahead of the expansion curve. The fact that he didn't get the timing within ten minutes of the "right" time doesn't in any way minimize the job he did in getting ahead of it.

 

[HuskyHawk]

No. He did get ahead of the expansion curve. The fact that he didn't get the timing within ten minutes of the "right" time doesn't in any way minimize the job he did in getting ahead of it.

Indeed, we are trying to time glaciers with stopwatches here. Even if it is several months before the next move, that is rather rapid by historical standards.

 

[flyonthewall]

The biggest issue with the SEC adding teams like FSU and Clemson is the gentlemen's agreement between a number of SEC schools to oppose the addition of any team in a state in which there is already a SEC member. That leaves VaTech but after the political stuff they pulled to get into the ACC it is doubtful that they could find a way to now leave the ACC for the SEC.

All of that makes it doubtful that the ACC will lose any teams to the SEC.

 

[Murph]

The biggest issue with the SEC adding teams like FSU and Clemson is the gentlemen's agreement between a number of SEC schools to oppose the addition of any team in a state in which there is already a SEC member. That leaves VaTech

Or NC State.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The biggest issue with the SEC adding teams like FSU and Clemson is the gentlemen's agreement between a number of SEC schools to oppose the addition of any team in a state in which there is already a SEC member. That leaves VaTech but after the political stuff they pulled to get into the ACC it is doubtful that they could find a way to now leave the ACC for the SEC.

All of that makes it doubtful that the ACC will lose any teams to the SEC.

Who says that this exists? Alabama, Mississippi and Tennessee already have two. Louisiana has no other option, nor does Arkansas or Kentucky (being realistic about UL). I've only ever heard of this as a rumor related to Georgia, Florida and SC. If all the others wanted a school, it could still get through that block.

 

[Nostical]

UConnsportsguy, that was a good summary of the circular dilemma we seem to be in. The most interesting part of your comments was at at the end when you aptly noted that the Big 10 would not be sitting idly by----- while (my edit) UConn is ripe for the plucking.

 

[Pudge]

Swofford's move was simple. He saw the big big numbers that Larry Scott did for the Pac12 ... and it was too damn simple to see that just opening up that negotiation, he could raise several mill a year for his schools. HERO amongst his presidents. And bash the BE one more time ... cool.

He has no thought in his head that this 14 or maybe 16 works. The only reason he opens the books again is another chance to raise the TV money. Notre Dame does that. Maybe in a few years, he can follow another conference (SEC>?) up the pay scale.

 

[The Funster]

No. He did get ahead of the expansion curve. The fact that he didn't get the timing within ten minutes of the "right" time doesn't in any way minimize the job he did in getting ahead of it.

I'm not completely buying that unless Swofford talked to ND and ND indicated a number of teams that it would prefer to be added to the ACC. Otherwise what value do Pitt and Cuse bring? Established BB programs yes but both programs rely on NYC roots to help them. Cuse because it has a lot of grads in the media and Pitt rose to prominence in hoops by mining NYC. If they don't play in NYC, their presence their takes a hit.

But it's not supposed to be about basketball. it's supposed to be about football and no one under consideration except for ND and possibly Penn St could have raised the football profile. There have even been many rumors that the ACC's best football schools aren't happy that quality wasn't added. I don't want to here about the Syracuse or Pitt "brand" if they have a brand, it sucks to be quite frank.

No, I'm inclined to believe what Tranghese said just after the move on WFAN. He said that the ACC move (paraphrase) was blind grab for money with little thought behind it and it was. The move was strictly so the ACC could renegotiate a below market deal and it was done under the cover of the looming shadow of the Big 12 break up.

On the expansion front, what did the ACC really accomplish? Improved BB? Most definitely. The ACC has gotten top heavy but like BC has been hurt by a lack of regional rivalries, the Cuse, and more likely Pitt, can suffer similar hurt by losing a strong presence in NYC. The ACC certainly didn't help it's football profile. Improved it's geographic footprint? yes but to what end?

I think Swofford is being given too much credit.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

The SEC isn't doing anything until there is a change in the two school limit for BCS bowl games.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The SEC isn't doing anything until there is a change in the two school limit for BCS bowl games.

The extra $5 million for a second BCS team is what the SEC spends on hookers at their annual meeting. A third BCS team would be nice, but isn't driving any decision making. The TV contract is all the matters.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

It isn't about the bnowl revenues, it is about exposure. The SEC will add to sixteen in a heartbeat if they know they'll get three schools in BCS games each season an a fourth on occasion. They won't add anyone until they determine if they are expanding to fourteen or sixteen. They won't view sixteen as reasonable until the BCS bids available to them is greater than two.

 

[NEforceUConn]

We all agree that the major reason why the ACC expanded by two was to invoke their "standard contract clause" to renegotiate their below market contract with ESPN. Two thoughts:
1) What if 1 or 2 ACC schools bolt quickly and the ACC is back to 12 - can ESPN say no to the standard clause, you still after its all done have just 12 teams? Actually if the parties can not come to terms it goes to arbitration. If I'm ESPN I say to the arbitrator if they were at 14 then yes we increase payouts but they are back at 12.
2) If everyone knew about this "standard clause" why was the BE so cavalier with ESPN's offer about a year ago when they knew the ACC had a money interest to expand by 2 teams to renegotiate.

I think this "standard clause" bs is very fishy. Please show me the ORIGINAL dated signed contract.