KIlling time until tomorrow-who’s better: SEC, Big10 or Big12

[DefenseBB]

I think the P5’s rank like this
ACC
Pac-12
then a big gap to the above 3
SEC has MSU and a lot of “not sure how good” teams like SC, KY and TN
Big12 has Baylor and then what?
Big10 has an overrated MD team, which reminds me of ND football, the voting media always overrates them. I think the depth of the Big10 is very good, just no elite teams (top 10)

So what order does the reading public think the P5 deserve to be in?

 

[triaddukefan]

SEC
Big 10
Big 12

Im torn over the ACC vs the Pac 12. To me ND is better than any in the Pac 12... but I would put Stanford and Oregon before Louisville. Im not sure who is better between Beaver State and NC State.... I'll find out more tomorrow night. I'd probably put Miami over Cal and Arizona State.

 

[CTtransplant]

Massey has them ranked:

PAC-12
ACC
Big 12
Big 10
SEC

I don’t have a problem with that. I think the ACC will do well in the tournament however.

 

[Plebe]

Definitely not the Big 12. After Baylor no one else is very good. Texas is way down this year. Oklahoma is down. West Virginia has been disappointing so far (lost badly today to TCU). A few of the bottom feeders are slightly better but it's not enough to compensate for the softness at the top.

If we're judging conference strength as a whole, the Pac-12 gets the edge over the ACC. While the ACC is slightly better at the top, the Pac-12 is significantly better at the bottom.

For comparison, here are the current Massey ratings for the upper, middle and bottom thirds of each conference:

Upper third:

• P12: Oregon (6), Stanford (7), Oregon St (12), Utah (20) [average: 11.25]
• ACC: Notre Dame (2), Louisville (5), NC State (8), Syracuse (11), Florida St (19) [average: 9]

Middle third:

• P12: Arizona St (23), Cal (32), USC (44), Arizona (47) [average: 37]
• ACC: Va. Tech (21), Miami (31), Duke (55), Ga. Tech (63), UNC (64) [average: 46.8]

Lower third:

• P12: UCLA (48), Colorado (58), Washington St (87), Washington (97) [average: 72.5]
• ACC: Boston C. (70), Pitt (90), Clemson (106), Wake F. (116), Virginia (119) [average: 100.2]

Notice that there are three ACC teams (one-fifth of the total) ranked outside the top 100, compared to none for the Pac-12.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Notice that there are three ACC teams (one-fifth of the total) ranked outside the top 100, compared to none for the Pac-12.

Notice also that the worst team in the Pac beat a middle of the road ACC team on a neutral court. Sorry Triad, that one is gonna be tough to live down.

 

[DefenseBB]

As usual, @Plebe has his support facts for his hypothesis. My meek counter argument would be thus:
The ACC has 15 schools vs. 12 so in each Tier is 5 vs 4 from a relative average (skews against the larger number)
I also appreciate the top 3rd and the middle 3rd as demonstrating strength as frankly, who care which bottom teams are worse? Who can make hay in the tournament?
Again, I really like both conferences and think they are head and shoulders above the others. Any of the top 5/6 of either would win the BIG10, the others would give Baylor and MSU more competition for those titles than the current list if schools in those conferences.

Maybe, I am living in Egypt (ie deNILE), but I still like the ACC slightly more with their top 7/8 schools vs. PAC-12’s 6/7 schools based on my top 50-70% tiering.

 

[Plebe]

As usual, @Plebe has his support facts for his hypothesis. My meek counter argument would be thus:
The ACC has 15 schools vs. 12 so in each Tier is 5 vs 4 from a relative average (skews against the larger number)
I also appreciate the top 3rd and the middle 3rd as demonstrating strength as frankly, who care which bottom teams are worse? Who can make hay in the tournament?
Again, I really like both conferences and think they are head and shoulders above the others. Any of the top 5/6 of either would win the BIG10, the others would give Baylor and MSU more competition for those titles than the current list if schools in those conferences.

Maybe, I am living in Egypt (ie deNILE), but I still like the ACC slightly more with their top 7/8 schools vs. PAC-12’s 6/7 schools.

If you want to exclude from your analysis the bottom teams, or the teams that have no chance of making the NCAA tournament, that's fine but then you're no longer judging conference strength per se. You're judging the strength of the best teams, a different thing.

 

[bballnut90]

1. PAC-best conference this year IMO.
2. ACC-close 2nd
3. SEC-big step down but they're more top heavy than the Big Ten or Big 12. Mississippi State, A&M, Tennessee, SC and Kentucky are all top 25 teams. Rest of the conference looks mediocre...bottom feeders look pretty awful.
4. Big Ten-no one is THAT good, but overall depth is up this year IMO
5. Big 12-I thought they'd be the lowest on here by a lot, but I think their depth is actually pretty solid even though most teams aren't going to make the tournament. Head to head they went:
2-2 vs. ACC
6-6 vs. SEC
3-2 vs. Pac 12
2-3 vs. Big Ten
Very even. Obviously match-ups matter quite a bit in determining these results, but even though their only really good team is Baylor, I think the other 9 will beat up on each other during conference play.

 

[DefenseBB]

If you want to exclude from your analysis the bottom teams, or the teams that have no chance of making the NCAA tournament, that's fine but then you're no longer judging conference strength per se. You're judging the strength of the best teams, a different thing.

I did qualify it by saying I was in denial...

 

[Plebe]

Massey conference ratings:

• Pac-12: 2.06
• ACC: 2.01
• Big 12: 1.99
• Big Ten: 1.92
• SEC: 1.88
• Big East: 1.84

 

[IrishTiger]

I’d say it’s pac 12, ACC those two are by far the best this year, SEC, B1G 10, Big 12.

 

[triaddukefan]

Notice also that the worst team in the Pac beat a middle of the road ACC team on a neutral court. Sorry Triad, that one is gonna be tough to live down.

that wasnt called for.

 

[oldude]

If you want to exclude from your analysis the bottom teams, or the teams that have no chance of making the NCAA tournament, that's fine but then you're no longer judging conference strength per se. You're judging the strength of the best teams, a different thing.

If we just judge the strength of a conference by the very best team, then the AAC is the superior conference by far...

 

[mbr33ct]

WarrenNolan.com has these conference RPI Rankings

1. ACC
2. Pac-12
3. Big Ten
4. Big East (surprise...surprise)
5. Big 12
6. SEC
7. West Coast (another surprise)
8. AAC (a much bigger surprise or maybe not)

 

[LoTrader]

It feels to me that there is more parity across NCAA Division 1 WBB this season, than in the past 15 seasons. I believe there will be a team, or 2, that will make the Final 4, that are lower than a 1-seed come tournament time. It is already a great season, and expecting a lot more great games before the NCAA Tournament.

 

[Plebe]

WarrenNolan.com has these conference RPI Rankings

1. ACC
2. Pac-12
3. Big Ten
4. Big East (surprise...surprise)
5. Big 12
6. SEC
7. West Coast (another surprise)
8. AAC (a much bigger surprise or maybe not)

It's interesting that the gap in conference RPI between the ACC and the Pac-12 is infinitesimal, only .005. There's comparatively a huge gap (more than .02) between the Pac-12 and the Big Ten.

The West Coast Conference doesn't have a UConn, but they do have a top-20 team in Gonzaga, three other top-100 teams (St. Mary's, BYU, Pacific) and a 5th team (Loyola Marymount) that has made waves by beating UCLA and Arizona. The WCC and the MAC are in a virtual tie with the AAC in the Massey ratings as well.

 

[bennyskid]

Massey has the Pac-12 at #1 (2.06 rating), then ACC (2.00), Big-12 (1.99), Big-10 (1.92), SEC (1.88), Big East (1.84). That's a pretty good edge.

RPI has a statistical bug built in - the larger the pool of teams, the higher the RPI of the best teams (and the lower the RPI of the worst teams). That's because the opponent's records will be slightly better for the teams in the larger pool. It's not a problem in MBB because teams travel more so every team is pretty much playing in the same pool. But in WBB, there isn't a lot of crossover between the west coast teams and the rest of the country, and that difference in pool size is enough to make up that 0.005 sliver of a difference in the conference RPIs that you see in the above chart. Most computers like Massey have better ways to judge the SOS than just the raw W-L and Opponents W-L records, so they are better are comparing teams and conferences from different regions.

 

[uconnell]

Don’t care,

 

[LoTrader]

Nice article breaking down PAC-12 teams: Cal Women's Basketball: Pac-12 Preview -- Three Teams Are Above the Rest - Cal Bears Maven