Jeff Jacobs slams NCAA

[Huskies4ever]

So you should agree with the NCAA decision to do nothing on UNC...The NCAA virtually always punishes programs going forward for violations. Sure they take away past wins, but really those are mostly symbolic not real punishments since the games have been played and everyone knows the outcome. Southern Cal is coming off a bowl ban for its actions in the Reggie Bush matter. The kids who played last year and the previous year had nothing to do with Bush. Weren't even on the team when he was since he left after the 2005 season. When Michigan was involved in the Ed martin-Fab 5 scandal, it was banned from the post season in 2002-3 even though the Fab 5 violations occurred in 1996. None of those guys were anywhere near Michigan when the violations occurred. Yet it was the 2002-03 team that missed out on the post season. there really is no other way to do it. If you accept Herbst's and your argument, you could pretty much do as you please, then if you get caught, say you've cleaned up you act for next year and totally avoid any consequences.

So you agree with the NCAA in not allowing the most recent data? Go back and reread what I posted. FWIW, I should have mentioned that I totally agreed with your first paragraph. The problem is the APR and how the NCAA changes the rules on a whim. If they can retroactively punish us (current kids meeting the requirements who have to pay for kids who didn't do the school work - what's the saying, " you can lead a horse to the water, but you can't make him drink"), then they feel they can do whatever they want. This isn't about sleazy agents, World Wide Wes, paying recruits or their families. This is about former players not meeting the standard in the classroom. The NCAA is a sham, as well as one of their tools, the APR.

 

[Huskies4ever]

So you should agree with the NCAA decision to do nothing on UNC...The NCAA virtually always punishes programs going forward for violations. Sure they take away past wins, but really those are mostly symbolic not real punishments since the games have been played and everyone knows the outcome. Southern Cal is coming off a bowl ban for its actions in the Reggie Bush matter. The kids who played last year and the previous year had nothing to do with Bush. Weren't even on the team when he was since he left after the 2005 season. When Michigan was involved in the Ed martin-Fab 5 scandal, it was banned from the post season in 2002-3 even though the Fab 5 violations occurred in 1996. None of those guys were anywhere near Michigan when the violations occurred. Yet it was the 2002-03 team that missed out on the post season. there really is no other way to do it. If you accept Herbst's and your argument, you could pretty much do as you please, then if you get caught, say you've cleaned up you act for next year and totally avoid any consequences.

When you are talking about punishments handed down for a program dealing with sleazy agents, it's easier for the NCAA to figure this guy is still in contact with the program/current players. Or the coaching staff is still compensating people to land recruits. Not from a couple of years ago. The NCAA can adjust how frequently they calculate their scores. We are all bashing the NCAA for their treatment of UNC vs. UConn. How about bashing them for doing whatever they want to whichever program they want?

 

[CL82]

This is about former players not meeting the standard in the classroom.

Except it kind of isn't. If three of players don't leave early to go pro, they were on track to graduate. I wish they had finished their course work but they didn't. It is tough to blame the university for that. As has been noted above, and many times elsewhere the APR is a flawed metric before the NCAA said it could be met by using fictional classwork.

 

[Huskies4ever]

Except it kind of isn't. If three of players don't leave early to go pro, they were on track to graduate. I wish they had finished their course work but they didn't. It is tough to blame the university for that. As has been noted above, and many times elsewhere the APR is a flawed metric before the NCAA said it could be met by using fictional classwork.

I totally agree. This is what I'm getting at. If we are blaming the NCAA and the APR for how flawed they are, then why are we accepting how they hand out their punishments?

 

[upstater]

I totally agree. This is what I'm getting at. If we are blaming the NCAA and the APR for how flawed they are, then why are we accepting how they hand out their punishments?

Because UConn doesn't have a choice... unless they take it to a court of law. I think the NCAA is probably in the territory right now where one could demonstrate the org. is damaging programs unfairly at the expense of others. But I doubt UConn would ever try to make such a case.

I don't understand what the uproar is, actually. The NCAA is clearly telling schools to take shortcuts ala UNC on academics.

 

[CL82]

I don't understand what the uproar is, actually.

Fairness.

Americans love the perception that everyone has an equal oportunity, everyone is treated equally under the law, etc. When that illusion is shattered (and although our system is good, no system is perfect) it bothers people. UConn is punished for 'academic progress' but the NCAA indicates that it will not punish outright fraud? That seems unfair, and that's something that writers like to write about, and people like to talk about.

It is a window of opportunity for us. I wonder if we are smart enough to exploit it. I wonder how far we could take it if we did.

 

[upstater]

Fairness.

Americans love the perception that everyone has an equal oportunity, everyone is treated equally under the law, etc. When that illusion is shattered (and although our system is good, no system is perfect) it bothers people. UConn is punished for 'academic progress' but the NCAA indicates that it will not punish outright fraud? That seems unfair, and that's something that writers like to write about, and people like to talk about.

It is a window of opportunity for us. I wonder if we are smart enough to exploit it. I wonder how far we could take it if we did.

But the whole college game apparently relies on the sham of the idea of student athlete. That's what drives the big $$$. I'm not saying there are no real student athletes or that schools shouldn't emphasize academics along with athletics, but rather that the greater part of the enterprise is totally fraudulent at this point. The NCAA cares mostly about $$$. This is why schools like Harvard can't make the APR in basketball and why Cal Tech is banned while Kentucky is a stellar school for student athletes.

All I'm saying is that the NCAA has openly chosen a course. You're right about the PR angle. That's the only one that's left for fans and schools that actually care about this stuff. It's pretty obvious the NCAA has adopted a total SEC-like mentality.

 

[Huskies4ever]

Because UConn doesn't have a choice... unless they take it to a court of law. I think the NCAA is probably in the territory right now where one could demonstrate the org. is damaging programs unfairly at the expense of others. But I doubt UConn would ever try to make such a case.

I don't understand what the uproar is, actually. The NCAA is clearly telling schools to take shortcuts ala UNC on academics.

I totally agree with you, upstater.

The point I was getting at with freescooter, was since the NCAA is such a farce, then why should we think that it is ok how they mete out their punishments. I for one don't think the current players should have to suffer because past players didn't meet the requirements. It appears the current players are meeting those BS requirements. The NCAA can do whatever they want, including implementing a different punishment. This isn't a case of our basketball program cheating, although that's how it is being punished.

 

[freescooter]

So you agree with the NCAA in not allowing the most recent data? Go back and reread what I posted. FWIW, I should have mentioned that I totally agreed with your first paragraph. The problem is the APR and how the NCAA changes the rules on a whim. If they can retroactively punish us (current kids meeting the requirements who have to pay for kids who didn't do the school work - what's the saying, " you can lead a horse to the water, but you can't make him drink"), then they feel they can do whatever they want. This isn't about sleazy agents, World Wide Wes, paying recruits or their families. This is about former players not meeting the standard in the classroom. The NCAA is a sham, as well as one of their tools, the APR.

The bottom line is that I agree with you and upstater that the NCAA has become a sham and the APR is more about the PR than the A. But that doesn't really matter. i also agree that changing the rules after the fact is wrong. UConn should have been on notice that starting in 2012 say, or 2013 if you don't meet the new standards you can't play in the tournament. But that is a whole different discussion than the idea that you can't punish future teams for the violations of past ones. In my mind it is no different from the Reggie Bush situation (and by the time the penalty went into effect both the AD and the football coach had been replaced, so the school could argue in your scenario that it had addressed the problem. And it isn't fair to penalize the current players and coach who had zero to do with Bush, weren't even on the team, when those events happened.) It is a stupid argument. Because if you can't penalize going forward, you can't penalize except symbolically.

 

[Huskies4ever]

The bottom line is that I agree with you and upstater that the NCAA has become a sham and the APR is more about the PR than the A. But that doesn't really matter. i also agree that changing the rules after the fact is wrong. UConn should have been on notice that starting in 2012 say, or 2013 if you don't meet the new standards you can't play in the tournament. But that is a whole different discussion than the idea that you can't punish future teams for the violations of past ones. In my mind it is no different from the Reggie Bush situation (and by the time the penalty went into effect both the AD and the football coach had been replaced, so the school could argue in your scenario that it had addressed the problem. And it isn't fair to penalize the current players and coach who had zero to do with Bush, weren't even on the team, when those events happened.) It is a stupid argument. Because if you can't penalize going forward, you can't penalize except symbolically.

Freescooter, I respect your opinion, but we just see things differently. You see the issue of punishment as black and white. I see it as grey. We are talking about an organization that changes their rules on a whim. If they can do that, they can alter how they punish too. We are being punished like we cheated. That's why the national media and other fanbases haven't spoken out about the injustices of the retroactive punishment and not using the most recent data. "UConn's banned from the postseason? They must have cheated."
UNC cheated, and they are not even being punished. The punishment should fit the crime. In this case it does not.