It's Not Easy Being a Stanford Student Athlete

[Charliebball]

They take their book learnin serious out there:

Travel challenges just part of NCAA Tournament for Stanford

 

[bags27]

I don't buy what the Post is selling. In my experience, it's far easier for students to do well at elite schools than at the less academically rigorous schools. There's more peer and professional support and a culture of higher expectations. To my mind, Stanford and Duke are the perfect intersection of high reputation mixed with more readily available opportunities for both academic and athletic performance. I respect the academics at both institutions, but I don't have to like their highly entitled sports teams. Which is why I generally root for anyone but them....

 

[CMC'72]

I don't have to like their highly entitled sports teams.

Being 90 min from Stanford and having a lot of interaction with their students, I have to say most, if not all, earned what they have. Look at the two Samuelson sisters and the two Ogwumike sisters. Earned every step they got.

Stanford campus is not an elitist retreat. Tiger Woods went there. Very productive research comes from there.

I was lucky enough to have an A-fib that Palo Alto Medical Foundaton heart surgeons had specialized in, getting their ablation procedure down from 9 hours to max 2 hours. They fixed mine first pass.
90 days later, I had my hip replaced from hiking up 1,800' every day, then 90 days later fixing one of two shoulders with limited movement since the 60's growing up in CT. They replaced the first one, then 90 days later, the second one. I had zero swelling or pain after each surgery. Zero muscle damage.

Note: I did have them install a tiny LED Christmas light in each joint that I could turn on at the right moment, usually to impress whomever I was with in a dark room... Hmmm...

But I did spend a lot of time up there and the kids, every one, reminded me of our own UCONN women.

So root for Stanford, cause they're a good bunch of kids.

Would love for a Samuelson vs Samuelson game so the two little girls who never let up on Lou, could battle it out, one last time!

That would be fun!

 

[JudgeSCR]

I don't buy what the Post is selling. In my experience, it's far easier for students to do well at elite schools than at the less academically rigorous schools. There's more peer and professional support and a culture of higher expectations. To my mind, Stanford and Duke are the perfect intersection of high reputation mixed with more readily available opportunities for both academic and athletic performance. I respect the academics at both institutions, but I don't have to like their highly entitled sports teams. Which is why I generally root for anyone but them....

My daughter attended Stanford and while she was not an athlete she was a Resident Advisor with several athletes in her dorm (at Stanford athletes are in the same dorms as the rest student body for their freshmen year). My daughter marveled at the work and diligence of the athletes many of whom got up as early as 5:00 am to train and/or study. There were systems to support them but they worked really, really hard ... much harder than the average hardworking Stanford student.

My daughter is now at Duke Medical School where some of her classmates were Duke undergrads and athletes (one from the women's basketball team). Although they are not competing now my daughter remarks about the work ethic those students have (even remarkable for students at a top medical school). I think we underestimate what it means to perform as an elite athlete and student at these kinds of schools and how hard these students work.

(Yes, my daughter gleefully attended two of my "hated" rivals on the WCBB scene).

 

[bags27]

Right, Tiger Woods and John McEnroe (neither graduated; both turned pro early) went there. So please tell me why is that does not make Stanford an elite institution?

 

[CMC'72]

They sound like great kids!
Congrats!

 

[Orangutan]

You could just as easily omit the "Stanford" from the title - It's Not Easy Being a Student Athlete

I've seen social media posts from multiple other schools showing players hard at work studying in hotels or wherever.

Good story, though, I always appreciate the "behind the scenes" look at the logistics of a program and all that goes in to making sure things run smoothly.

 

[CMC'72]

I enjoy what Stanford does and am 100% healthy again because of them.
That's all I know!

 

[bags27]

My daughter attended Stanford and while she was not an athlete she was a Resident Advisor with several athletes in her dorm (at Stanford athletes are in the same dorms as the rest student body for their freshmen year). My daughter marveled at the work and diligence of the athletes many of whom got up as early as 5:00 am to train and/or study. There were systems to support them but they worked really, really hard ... much harder than the average hardworking Stanford student.

My daughter is now at Duke Medical School where some of her classmates were Duke undergrads and athletes (one from the women's basketball team). Although they are not competing now my daughter remarks about the work ethic those students have (even remarkable for students at a top medical school). I think we underestimate what it means to perform as an elite athlete and student at these kinds of schools and how hard these students work.

(Yes, my daughter gleefully attended two of my "hated" rivals on the WCBB scene).

That's fantastic. Congratulations, and I have great respect for her accomplishments. But when you say that she worked much harder than the average Stanford student, isn't that just impressionistic and anecdotal? Don't all parents feel that somehow about their high achieving kids of whom they are very justifiably proud? That's my larger point. We have generalized beliefs that we're invested in, often for good reason, but they aren't necessarily based on anything but the desire to believe.

 

[sarals24]

I don't think the average Stanford student has to spend 20 hours (at least) a week training, traveling each week for five or six months, etc. There's no doubt it adds a completely different (and presumably harder) type of work to the student experience.

 

[JudgeSCR]

That's fantastic. Congratulations, and I have great respect for her accomplishments. But when you say that she worked much harder than the average Stanford student, isn't that just impressionistic and anecdotal? Don't all parents feel that somehow about their high achieving kids of whom they are very justifiably proud? That's my larger point. We have generalized beliefs that we're invested in, often for good reason, but they aren't necessarily based on anything but the desire to believe.

I was certainly reporting my daughter's impressions. But just to be clear, my daughter was not an athlete and she was not saying that she, my daughter, worked harder (nor was I implying that). I was not talking about her at all other than to give context to relaying her impressions of the student athletes at the two schools you mentioned in your post.

My daughter was saying that the several athletes in her dorm (two of whom are her close friends) worked harder than her and most of the other non-athlete students. So if your point is that these were her impressions, well, yes you are correct. That is how I presented her comments.

While it was not the point of my post, you are correct I am immensely proud of my daughter.

 

[UcMiami]

bags27 - I have general agreement with your post in terms of the peer pressure and facilities available at the better academic institutions - I experienced it myself both at the two colleges i attended (one Ivy and one not) and in my grade school/high school experience in Storrs, but I also differ somewhat in my views on Stanford vs Duke and other schools. Of the major sports programs Stanford stands alone as the one school that has a non-negotiable admissions standard higher than that set by the NCAA and as such should be commended. Duke and ND both very good academic schools allow exceptions to their general admissions standards for scholarship athletes as do all the others. So I actually do like Stanford and like when they succeed. And I do think that all serious students on athletic scholarship regardless of school are incredibly challenged by their commitments to their sport, and basketball having a season that includes most of both semesters each school year is one of the most challenging. The level of academic rigor involved has more to do with the student than the school they are attending, so in that regard again I agree, some of the Stanford athletes I am sure stand out, just as some at every school shine in that regard.

At any university, there are harder and easier majors, and harder and easier classes and everyone in the student body knows which they are. And many universities stretch those boundaries for their student athletes though I really believe there are not many out and out frauds being perpetrated like there were at UNC. And student athletes receive incredible resources on top of their scholarships devoted to helping them succeed academically, most of them legitimate. And most of the athletes really are motivated to succeed beyond just maintaining their eligibility to play - I have a cousin who has worked tutoring and while some of his charges probably shouldn't be in college, they work really really hard at it, and take incredible pride in the success they achieve, one basketball player was in tears over a good grade he receive on something he didn't think he could do at the beginning of the semester.

By the way, I do have a little concern with the Uconn WCBB program when seeing the number of individualized majors - that, like a general studies major can be a red flag for reducing the academic rigor of a course load.

And finally - UNC is a cautionary tale for any school that takes great pride in their academic rigor and athletic success - the two are not very compatible and vigilance is required to make sure the goal of athletic success does not corrupt the academic rigor.

Edit: And Baylor is a cautionary tale that it isn't just academic rigor that can be corrupted!

 

[JellyBean]

This is a nice article but I applaud the teams doing things, like Stanford, on a shoe string budget. Teams like Bucknell or Quinnipiac. Small schools with a limited budget. They had or enduring the same things Stanford is going through. Those small schools can't just charter a plane like the big schools.

 

[drweo]

I don't buy what the Post is selling. In my experience, it's far easier for students to do well at elite schools than at the less academically rigorous schools. There's more peer and professional support and a culture of higher expectations. To my mind, Stanford and Duke are the perfect intersection of high reputation mixed with more readily available opportunities for both academic and athletic performance. I respect the academics at both institutions, but I don't have to like their highly entitled sports teams. Which is why I generally root for anyone but them....

Yes, Stanford is an elite institution, but I dont know what you mean about "what the Post is selling." I read this story as a nice look at things that are usually behind the scenes in events like the tournament and how the Stanford team and staff coped nicely with a couple of bumps in the road.

As for elitism, doesnt the UConn team travel by charter plane? And doesnt the team have academic advisors etc? Uconn and other major programs have many, if not most, of the opportunities and support that Stanford and Duke players have. Yes, those two have their established academic reputations, but as Coach Auriemma has quipped, they have as many grads as does UConn waiting on tables, but "in better restaurants."

For myself, I would love to see even more reporting about the "student" aspect of "student athletes," whether elite or not. I would guess that there's a lot of interesting (and likely even inspirational) stuff for sports and other journalists to work on.

BTW, I'm usually with you on rooting for non-elites, but I make exceptions for what I perceive to be programs in which there is excellent teaching, player development, and recognition of importance of academics and associated values. On those standards, UConn and Stanford are among the elite (and there are others), though I root for UConn first and foremost.

 

[CMC'72]

This is a nice article but I applaud the teams doing things on a shoe string budget..

Good point!

 

[DefenseBB]

That's fantastic. Congratulations, and I have great respect for her accomplishments. But when you say that she worked much harder than the average Stanford student, isn't that just impressionistic and anecdotal? Don't all parents feel that somehow about their high achieving kids of whom they are very justifiably proud? That's my larger point. We have generalized beliefs that we're invested in, often for good reason, but they aren't necessarily based on anything but the desire to believe.

Somebody woke up a bit cranky today. Not sure the source of the angst here and while all student athletes have to either juggle their schedules with team travel either on their own or with an academic advisor assistance, some schools course loads are harder. Perceived or reality is Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt and of course the Ivy's have harder work loads. Very rarely so we see fluff majors or courses like what UNC had at these institutions. I didn't see any "selling" by the WP as you framed it.

Yes, they (student athletes) all have the same set of issues- 20 hours of practice, game travel, hotel stays, managing down time in unfamiliar places, 12-18 hours of course work and "unscheduled team time". This is impressive regardless of institution and I didn't read anything elitist into it. However, their travel problems were disconcerting but yet they solved them without too much complaint.

It's ok if you want to root against Duke and Stanford, but don't get so cynical or negative on it, you're better than that as we have all seen. I just want to pull you back from the abyss my friend, that's all.

 

[CocoHusky]

Conversation I had with my daughter recently who played Division I basketball as an undersized PF.
Her: Dad remember how you told me that God doesn't give you everything?
Me: Yea I remember that.
Her: Well how do you explain this Brittany McPhee girl?
Me: Brittany McPhee?
Her: Yea dad, Brittany McPhee! She is a model. She is 6' tall. She is going to Stanford and has 4.0 GPA. She is a big time balleer!
Me: You may have a point there.

 

[CMC'72]

Right, Tiger Woods went there. So please tell me why is that does not make Stanford an elite institution?

I guess watching Ivy League women's basketball. They have such, let's say, less elite teams. I always wonder why since they are top schools with great endowments.
Elitist to me means we only take the top crust, not the real top performers.
Woods at Stanford came from humble beginnings. As did Barack Obama to Harvard. Facebook came from Harvard, but moved to Palo Alto to get to the real, down and dirty, academics.

But this subject is not that interesting to me. Just an offhand remark, not a double-blind study result. ;-)

 

[SVCBeercats]

You could just as easily omit the "Stanford" from the title - It's Not Easy Being a Student Athlete

Per the NCAA, student athletes at the universities below had an easier academic time than their peers at Stanford and Duke. Perhaps this works: "It’s not easy being a student athlete at an ethical institute of higher learning."

All and more were punished for "major academic misconduct" (NCAA lingo).
North Carolina, Georgia Southern, Notre Dame, Drake, Cal State-Northridge, Southeast Missouri, Weber, University of Louisiana at Lafayette, Idaho State, Minnesota, Howard, Syracuse, Cal Berkeley, Southern Mississippi, Alabama State, Georgia, Miami of Ohio, New Mexico State, etc., etc., etc.

 

[UConnNick]

Somebody woke up a bit cranky today. Not sure the source of the angst here and while all student athletes have to either juggle their schedules with team travel either on their own or with an academic advisor assistance, some schools course loads are harder. Perceived or reality is Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt and of course the Ivy's have harder work loads. Very rarely so we see fluff majors or courses like what UNC had at these institutions. I didn't see any "selling" by the WP as you framed it.

Yes, they (student athletes) all have the same set of issues- 20 hours of practice, game travel, hotel stays, managing down time in unfamiliar places, 12-18 hours of course work and "unscheduled team time". This is impressive regardless of institution and I didn't read anything elitist into it. However, their travel problems were disconcerting but yet they solved them without too much complaint.

It's ok if you want to root against Duke and Stanford, but don't get so cynical or negative on it, you're better than that as we have all seen. I just want to pull you back from the abyss my friend, that's all.

Several years ago there were some articles written about how most of the men's BB players at Duke were majoring in Sociology. While it's considered to be a tough academic school, apparently it was generally known that Sociology was a relatively easier path toward graduation for the athletes in the revenue producing sports, explaining why an inordinate number of them were majoring in it.

Due to the incredible amounts of money the athletes in the revenue producing sports rake in for the big athletic profile schools, to some greater or lesser extent they all have subtle ways of making the academic path easier, if not virtually non-existent (i.e. UNC) for their elite athletes in the revenue producing sports. Luckily this entrenched hypocrisy doesn't affect women's sports nearly as much because only a handful of schools nationwide make any money from their women's sports programs.

Some of these athletic factory schools are academically tougher than others, but it's naive to think that they don't all make academic accomodations for athletes in the revenue producing sports programs, ranging anywhere from gut classes and majors all the way up to what UNC was engaged in for over 20 years. There's far too much money involved to let principles or integrity get in the way, and it's all being administered by a morally and ethically bankrupt organization called the NCAA.

 

[UcMiami]

Several years ago there were some articles written about how most of the men's BB players at Duke were majoring in Sociology. While it's considered to be a tough academic school, apparently it was generally known that Sociology was a relatively easier path toward graduation for the athletes in the revenue producing sports, explaining why an inordinate number of them were majoring in it.

I had a chuckle about this, because the one 'gut' class I actually sought out in college was a sociology course - we had a weekly quiz, but were encouraged to discuss each question before we answered it, and then the mid term and the final were supposed to be rigidly taken with no discussion but five minutes into each one the professor stood up and said, 'a number of students have come up to the front needing clarification on some of the questions, so please feel free to discuss them among yourselves.' Oh, well!
We also reviewed some seriously scary early 'clinical studies' that had been carried out on children over long periods of time that I wanted to scream about - basically really destructive to the future lives of half of the children in each study.

 

[JordyG]

Conversation I had with my daughter recently who played Division I basketball as an undersized PF.
Her: Dad remember how you told me that God doesn't give you everything?
Me: Yea I remember that.
Her: Well how do you explain this Brittany McPhee girl?
Me: Brittany McPhee?
Her: Yea dad, Brittany McPhee! She is a model. She is 6' tall. She is going to Stanford and has 4.0 GPA. She is a big time balleer!
Me: You may have a point there.

Yeah, but can she do this (as I cross my eyes and rub my stomach)?

Some would say God gives you everything, but the best thing he can give you is a challenge, adversity. It seems to me your daughter was given all she needed to be the great person she is. Nevertheless, when my nephew finished H.S. as a 6 ft forward I told him if I could give him one gift it would be the gift of height. Unfortunately I was unable to provide it.

 

[BigBird]

You could just as easily omit the "Stanford" from the title - It's Not Easy Being a Student Athlete

I've seen social media posts from multiple other schools showing players hard at work studying in hotels or wherever.

Good story, though, I always appreciate the "behind the scenes" look at the logistics of a program and all that goes in to making sure things run smoothly.

Bingo. I taught undergraduates, including many varsity athletes, for most of forty years. They were more disciplined, worked harder, got better grades, and graduated more often than non-athletes. My experience might not be universal; I make no such claim. But I have sufficient data to support my belief.

Also, I won't try to build an elaborate case against "elite" schools. They typically deserve their elite standing at least somewhat. But I believe that the good student can also get an outstanding education at schools that are less marketed and less endowed. As with anything we purchase, our challenge in selecting a college is to separate the educational substance from the advertising puffery.

 

[bags27]

Somebody woke up a bit cranky today.
It's ok if you want to root against Duke and Stanford, but don't get so cynical or negative on it, you're better than that as we have all seen. I just want to pull you back from the abyss my friend, that's all.

You nailed it!! I didn't get much sleep (binge watching) and left for work thinking: man, was I an a-**** this am. Thanks for pulling me back....

 

[1-of-the-6]

Conversation I had with my daughter recently who played Division I basketball as an undersized PF.
Her: Dad remember how you told me that God doesn't give you everything?
Me: Yea I remember that.
Her: Well how do you explain this Brittany McPhee girl?
Me: Brittany McPhee?
Her: Yea dad, Brittany McPhee! She is a model. She is 6' tall. She is going to Stanford and has 4.0 GPA. She is a big time balleer!
Me: You may have a point there.

A "balleer"? Sounds like a cross between a basketball player and a ballerina.