It's a Brave New World in WBB | The Boneyard

It's a Brave New World in WBB

oldude

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At one of the FF pressers a reporter asked Geno how the WNBA had influenced WCBB. Geno took a somewhat different tack in his answer, talking about how the NBA had influenced WCBB and basketball in general. He spoke about “position-less” basketball and spreading the floor where everyone can shoot the 3. If you watch the NBA recently, that is primarily how the games are played. That style of play has certainly filtered into both MCBB as well as the WNBA, and it is slowly but surely making its way into WCBB as well,

You need look no further than the BE to see a bunch of teams who spread the floor and shoot 3’s. In the case of the BE, this strategy is as much out of necessity as anything else. Doug Bruno’s DePaul teams have largely dominated the conference as an early proponent of spreading the floor and shooting 3’s. In addition, other than UConn, the rest of the BE does not have the size or overall talent to grind it out every night like the SEC.

Beyond the BE, the number of teams that are moving in the direction of the “spread the floor, shoot the 3" offensive mindset is growing significantly. IMO, the most talented team to fully embrace this type of basketball is MD. The Sweet 16 battle between a MD team that wanted to run the floor and shoot 3’s and a TX team that walked the ball up the court, used the 30-second clock and pounded the ball inside was truly a battle between the future and the past. In that instance, the past prevailed. But it was probably the biggest upset of the Tournament.

UConn is not all the way there yet, but the 2016 team had 5 talented players who could all knock down 3’s, and there was no team in the country that came within 10 points of beating them. This year Geno surprised many by going largely with a 4-guard offense that worked particularly well up until Nika’s injury. After the AR game, when the Razorbacks swarmed Liv in the low post, UConn gravitated to an offense that often left the lane open for players to drive to the basket, cut backdoor or pick and roll, effectively spreading the floor.

As WBB continues to evolve in this direction, I think it will have a significant impact on personnel. While small. explosive guards like Crystal Dangerfield and Aari McDonald will always be around, top teams will put a premium on big guards and wings who can shoot it, attack the basket, defend out to the arc and battle in the post on defense if they get caught on a switch against a Big.

More significantly, I personally believe the days of dominant post players like Aaliyah Boston and Elissa Cunane are numbered. I grew up before the 3-pt shot, watching the titanic battles between Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell. In today’s NBA, Chamberlain and Russell would have to develop significantly different skillsets to be effective.

In WBB, players with size who can handle the ball and shoot it are increasingly prominent: Nalyssa Smith, Ashton Prechtel and hopefully Dorka Juhasz to name a few. The gold standard of course are players like Stewie and EDD. I know, great players like Stewie and EDD don’t grow on trees. But right now, there are literally thousands of tall young girls, dribbling a basketball wherever they go and practicing 3-pt shots until they can’t lift their arms. It’s a Brave New World in WBB.
 
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As always great observation. Might I add that the UConn future is almost here. The last I hear, Azzi Fudd and Caroline Ducharme are very good 3 pt shooters. And they are fairly big wings. Somehow position less game plan will depend mostly on matchups. Teams will still need and want big and strong centers who can finish and defend.
 

oldude

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As always great observation. Might I add that the UConn future is almost here. The last I hear, Azzi Fudd and Caroline Ducharme are very good 3 pt shooters. And they are fairly big wings. Somehow position less game plan will depend mostly on matchups. Teams will still need and want big and strong centers who can finish and defend.
Position-less basketball will never eliminate the need for a Big who can rebound and defend the Paint. But it will require Bigs who are more athletic, can defend out on the perimeter, pass the ball and, hopefully, shoot the ball reasonably well beyond 5’ from the basket.
 
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Position-less basketball will never eliminate the need for a Big who can rebound and defend the Paint. But it will require Bigs who are more athletic, can defend out on the perimeter, pass the ball and, hopefully, shoot the ball reasonably well beyond 5’ from the basket.


Exactly, that was my point. I am still agonizing about this last season and what it could have been. The AZ lost was a shocker for me. Were we outplayed and outcoached or both?
 
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WCBB, if it does become a 30-40% success rate, 3 point league, will ,in my opinion, lose a lot of fans, just as MLB has with their emphasis on home runs at the expense of striking out 10-15 times / game.
Remember, the greatest WCBB team of all time, had one Tamika Williams, at 6'2" in the post, shooting 70.3%.
 

oldude

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Exactly, that was my point. I am still agonizing about this last season and what it could have been. The AZ lost was a shocker for me. Were we outplayed and outcoached or both?
Outplayed for sure. The strategy Geno employed was what I would have done. Get the ball inside to your Bigs, where you have a height advantage (old time basketball). Unfortunately, Liv’s 0-7 sunk that plan, forcing UConn to play more of a perimeter oriented game, which played right into the hands of an experienced, defensive oriented AZ team.
 

oldude

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WCBB, if it does become a 30-40% success rate, 3 point league, will ,in my opinion, lose a lot of fans, just as MLB has with their emphasis on home runs at the expense of striking out 10-15 times / game.
Remember, the greatest WCBB team of all time, had one Tamika Williams, at 6'2" in the post, shooting 70.3%.
That 2001-02 team also had 2 pretty good 3-pt shooters in the lineup, who are still knocking down shots in the W today.

Spreading the floor does not necessarily mean that games degenerate into 3-pt shooting contests. If you play a 5-out offense, the best teams will execute backdoor cuts, pick & rolls and will have players capable of putting the ball on the floor and attacking the basket if opponents overplay the perimeter.
 
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The offense as described is not just shooting threes. It also isolates one person with the ball with one person guarding him/her. The other 4 players stay behind the three point line waiting for a pass if their "guarder" goes to help the penetration by the person with the ball.
Its the offense I scream at the TV, when I knew we had three players ( Paige, Christyn, and Evina) who could beat their "Guarder" off the dribble every time.
For us, the lane was always packed with helpers because certain players didn't need to be guarded.
Next year will be different.
 
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I hope that women's college basketball never resembles the NBA. I like post play, defense and the intermediate game. I was a die hard Celtics fan until the game changed to be what it is now. I occasionally watch a little NBA and get bored extremely quickly. If the women's game evolves to look like the NBA, I'll probably start watching a local high school team.
 

oldude

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I hope that women's college basketball never resembles the NBA. I like post play, defense and the intermediate game. I was a die hard Celtics fan until the game changed to be what it is now. I occasionally watch a little NBA and get bored extremely quickly. If the women's game evolves to look like the NBA, I'll probably start watching a local high school team.
High Schools aren’t far behind. In fact, some of the top boys HS teams are already there.
 
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The offense as described is not just shooting threes. It also isolates one person with the ball with one person guarding him/her. The other 4 players stay behind the three point line waiting for a pass if their "guarder" goes to help the penetration by the person with the ball.
Its the offense I scream at the TV, when I knew we had three players ( Paige, Christyn, and Evina) who could beat their "Guarder" off the dribble every time.
For us, the lane was always packed with helpers because certain players didn't need to be guarded.
Next year will be different.
I don't think our guards could break down the Arizona defenders off the dribble. Why because they didn't. I saw Christyn get stuffed by Tomas on a drive and I saw Paige have trouble getting a good shot off on her baseline drives to the right which she usually got off with ease. Arizona was built on lockdown defenders and whatever offense they could get. McDonald can break ANYONE down off the dribble. Just before half from the left side of the court, she went by Nika like she was stuck at a stop sign for an easy two. Stanford beat them by having 3 bigs waiting for her in the paint after she beat her guarder off the dribble. Geno's game plan went down right after Liv got her 2nd foul in the first quarter. We all remember that "hard" foul Kanter called on Liv at the top of the key. Thanks for that. We tried an all guard offense after that without much success. I think that is the reason Geno took Dorka out of the portal. If we can make bunnies we win. If they then have to bunch up with some help on the inside. We will have the two best three point shooters in WCBB and some other good ones to fire away.
 
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WCBB, if it does become a 30-40% success rate, 3 point league, will ,in my opinion, lose a lot of fans, just as MLB has with their emphasis on home runs at the expense of striking out 10-15 times / game.
Remember, the greatest WCBB team of all time, had one Tamika Williams, at 6'2" in the post, shooting 70.3%.
Agreed Shenandoah- the reason I love UCONN WBB is because of the movement, passing and patient playmaking.
Men’s pro hoops is nonexistent to me.
Men’s college, I can deal with, especially during the tourneys.
If the woman’s college game becomes a 3 point heave ho, then I’ll just move along.
I much more enjoy a slick pass to a layup or short pop than a 3 point shot that may have a 40-43% chance of going net.
 

oldude

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Question:
Among those three, Sue-DT-Cash, Brenna-Morgan-Moriah and Paige-Azzi-CW, which team is better?
I would answer TBD, although of the 3 trios, only Stewie, Tuck & Mo will have played together for 4 years, and it’s hard to argue against 4 national championships.
 
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I don't think our guards could break down the Arizona defenders off the dribble. Why because they didn't. I saw Christyn get stuffed by Tomas on a drive and I saw Paige have trouble getting a good shot off on her baseline drives to the right which she usually got off with ease. Arizona was built on lockdown defenders and whatever offense they could get. McDonald can break ANYONE down off the dribble. Just before half from the left side of the court, she went by Nika like she was stuck at a stop sign for an easy two. Stanford beat them by having 3 bigs waiting for her in the paint after she beat her guarder off the dribble. Geno's game plan went down right after Liv got her 2nd foul in the first quarter. We all remember that "hard" foul Kanter called on Liv at the top of the key. Thanks for that. We tried an all guard offense after that without much success. I think that is the reason Geno took Dorka out of the portal. If we can make bunnies we win. If they then have to bunch up with some help on the inside. We will have the two best three point shooters in WCBB and some other good ones to fire away.
You made my point, you just don't know it. McDonald had three Stanford "Bigs" waiting for her. Why? Because they didn't need to guard anyone out at the three point line.
Two, Paige was pulling up and shooting before she drove into the "Trees". CW made baskets, and other times should have passed. ( but to whom?) Evina drove well just missed her shots.
If Paige went one /on/one with McDonald, because of her height advantage and handle, she would have schooled the little guard with ease.
 
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One thing for the sure, the tattoos have made their way from the NBA to the WNBA, and also both college women and men hoops. High schoolers have even adopted the tat look. What's interesting is that you don't see see that look as prevalent in other sports. Wonder how long Geno can go with the no visible tat look?
 

oldude

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One thing for the sure, the tattoos have made their way from the NBA to the WNBA, and also both college women and men hoops. High schoolers have even adopted the tat look. What's interesting is that you don't see see that look as prevalent in other sports. Wonder how long Geno can go with the no visible tat look?
Both Saniya and Gabby sported small tattoos, although they were required to cover them up with tape during games.
 

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Getting back to oldude's original premise.

It was several years ago, maybe 9 years ago, the wife and I attended a "meet the coaches" event in Hartford featuring Geno and Kevin Ollie. Quite a few UConn celebs were there.

After dinner there was a Q & A session. We were given cards to fill out with a question for the coaches. My question was are the days of the positions of 1or pg, 2, 3 , 4, and 5 players still relevant or is the game changing. Geno was very specific back then. He was already planning and teaching the position less game.

As to the big, bruising post players, UConn has never really had that type of post. Some will say Dolson, but not really. Stef play her game at the foul line. She could shoot the jumper, drive the lane and make the high-low pass better than almost anyone. Look at Stanford - height but no bruising post players.

As the game evolves, post players are going to be more athletic, more mobile. No more camping 5' from the basket, getting the entry pass and muscling your way to the rim. For all who are raving about Dorka, she is not the bruising post player that some here want.. She is athletic and mobile.
 
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Question:
Among those three, Sue-DT-Cash, Brenna-Morgan-Moriah and Paige-Azzi-CW, which team is better?
The first 2 groups included a forward. I think my trio makes for a better comparison except that the last group has a total of 2 years experience while the first two groups had 11.

Among those three, Sue-DT-Cash, Brenna-Morgan-Moriah and Paige-Azzi-AE, which team is better?
 
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WCBB, if it does become a 30-40% success rate, 3 point league, will ,in my opinion, lose a lot of fans, just as MLB has with their emphasis on home runs at the expense of striking out 10-15 times / game.
Remember, the greatest WCBB team of all time, had one Tamika Williams, at 6'2" in the post, shooting 70.3%.

I don't agree with the analogy. I don't think the 3 pt shot is equivalent to strikeout/ Home Run. The 3pt shot can encourage pace (i..e run up-tempo so the defense can't get set up and so the bigger players can have less impact). And games that are faster paced is something I think most fans would enjoy more.
 

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