Incredible LadyVol score | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Incredible LadyVol score

Urshurak said:
Go check out Kim’s post game. Blamed it all on the team. I can’t imagine her being there next year. No way.
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Just signed her to an extension. She's not going anywhere next year.
 
Urshurak said:
Go check out Kim’s post game. Blamed it all on the team. I can’t imagine her being there next year. No way.
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Well, you gotta give her credit. She at least speaks her mind. She is definitely feisty. Defense is definitely an issue with his team. They’re taking too many plays off. No half court rhythm. I don’t have an issue with the platooning in and out something was clicking the first seven games in the SEC. They just ran into some good competition with us and South Carolina; if you look at the game against South Carolina, it’s really just shooting and rebounding and they got a ton of fouls called on Tennessee.
 
What Caldwell said was bad even if it was accurate. I watched the game and felt sorry for the LV players. They were getting crushed and had no help from the bench at all. I saw quit from both the players and coaches.

This season has served as a reminder just how young Caldwell is in her coaching career. She had one year of D1 experience at a mid-major program before being given full control over one of the most historic programs in the sport that still has significant recognition and support. Her system isn't working out with her personnel and I'm suspicious it will not against topflight competition. That's when a coach should adjust their approach to meet the team where they are. She brought in these players and while no coach or recruiting scout is perfect, she clearly saw something in them she wanted.

She needs to be the adult in the room and get to what is going on inside her squad and fix it.
 
Next 12 said:
I am not a long time fan like so many on the Boneyard as I became a fan in 2010 and in my limited experience I have NEVER seen A Hockey substitution of player work in BB, I first seen it with DePaul's coach tried it and Uconn destroyed them. I know more knowledgeable posters will come up with more evidence of such, and I thank you. A top rated team has a core unit that is the back bone of the team and talented reserves are the heart of the team. Such a team is Uconn and they are proof that Geno's philosophy on how a team should be coached is proof.GENO the master!!!!! GO HUSKIES!!!!!!!
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It isn't common, and I have most often seen it when a coach reaches the end of his / her tolerance for the players on the court.

That said, ASU under Charlie Turner Thorne, who retired a few years ago, tended to do it some. But I never remember any real doubt about who were the "starters" and "subs". She had some success, I think the reasoning was to give starters a break after playing a highly pressing style of defense.
 
KnightBridgeAZ said:
It isn't common, and I have most often seen it when a coach reaches the end of his / her tolerance for the players on the court.

That said, ASU under Charlie Turner Thorne, who retired a few years ago, tended to do it some. But I never remember any real doubt about who were the "starters" and "subs". She had some success, I think the reasoning was to give starters a break after playing a highly pressing style of defense.
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Coach doesn’t know who the starters are. She “rewards” players on their production from the game before.

I also wonder if she can adjust? Her coaching style is clearly press, get the steal, make a layup. If that doesn’t work, the offense is dribble pass shoot the 3. There are no offense sets.

The players get zero rhythm. As soon as they do they are pulled. She has a line up change a minute into the game.

I wonder why these players choose to go there with this style of play? Or was it all about the check!?
 
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Blakeon18 said:
South Carolina beat LadyVol 93-50.

The first half SC dominated...led 47-32.Second half was much worse 46-18,
LadyVol ran no offense...just checked treys...actually made a couple very late to get
...Uhhh...closer. SC shot over 70% from the field....played a great/great game.
Inside one week KadyVol got whipped by 0 points [UConn] and then 28 [SC].

Obvious questions: were they embarrassed last Sunday? Emarrased this Sunday?
What's up with the players and the staff? Will this game knock them out of the top 25?

BTW: they are 7-2 in the SEC
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Haven't watched a lot of their games but they don't seem to be a team that should be putting up a lot of threes; 29.7% as a team and their best individual is under 34%. What really is telling is the 'quality' of their misses. When a good shooter misses it's usually on line and a little long or short; so many of theirs are so far off line they don't even catch the rim left or right.
 
Bjbod said:
Haven't watched a lot of their games but they don't seem to be a team that should be putting up a lot of threes; 29.7% as a team and their best individual is under 34%. What really is telling is the 'quality' of their misses. When a good shooter misses it's usually on line and a little long or short; so many of theirs are so far off line they don't even catch the rim left or right.
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They should not. Most of the players are not 3 point shooters but that’s her system. There are no plays called. It’s literally dribble around the perimeter for most of the time, jack up a 3 and hope it goes in and if they miss, hope for the rebound. She’s recruiting athletes not basketball players. And I’m one that thinks you need both to win
 
Geew1992 said:
They should not. Most of the players are not 3 point shooters but that’s her system. There are no plays called. It’s literally dribble around the perimeter for most of the time, jack up a 3 and hope it goes in and if they miss, hope for the rebound. She’s recruiting athletes not basketball players. And I’m one that thinks you need both to win
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To me, what you describe was standard LV practice under Pat and much of the SEC. Not the 3s, but dribble drives into the lane where big athletic kids could get the rebounds. Then, press, press, press.

What Geno did was and still is unusual as he captured basketball players who were also athletic enough to compete on the boards. Are there a lot of these to go around?

I can’t think what a new coach has to do to capture talent in this era. Money has always played a role in sports but this is at another level. And, as Al McGuire so eloquently pointed out, we don’t know what’s in these kids refrigerators.
 
Geew1992 said:
… I wonder why these players choose to go there with this style of play? Or was it all about the check!?
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It is not “all about the check.” I take this position for several reasons.

First, Tennessee has no more money to “direct pay” players than UConn (and maybe probably less given UT’s huge expenditures on football) or any of the top 30 or more p/2 teams who are limited to 21.5 million direct pay for all sports. As far as third party NIL, they aren’t in LA like U$C, and nobody has generated more of such funding than UConn through players like Paige and Azi

Second, the Lady Vols name is still influential. When they are contacted by UT in recruiting, their parents and hs/AAU coaches ( and probably agents) are gonna tell them that’s big time. I mean no other school can say they have been invited to EVERY NCAA tournament ever held. Only one school has more championships they are almost always ranked during the September-November period when decisions are made. I could go on and on (though WE know it is a faded glory.)

Third, they have great names like Candace Parker who extoll the virtues of the Lady Vols as she did in the recruiting of #3 Olyvia Edwards recently.

I could go on and on because the things listed above make up only a partial list of the reasons why the Vols are still a power in recruiting. Suffice it to say, when they knock, people go to the door.
 
Next 12 said:
I am not a long time fan like so many on the Boneyard as I became a fan in 2010 and in my limited experience I have NEVER seen A Hockey substitution of player work in BB
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Other than last year's Tennessee game against us, you mean?
just sayin GIF
 
Geew1992 said:
Coach doesn’t know who the starters are. She “rewards” players on their production from the game before.

I also wonder if she can adjust? Her coaching style is clearly press, get the steal, make a layup. If that doesn’t work, the offense is dribble pass shoot the 3. There are no offense sets.

The players get zero rhythm. As soon as they do they are pulled. She has a line up change a minute into the game.

I wonder why these players choose to go there with this style of play? Or was it all about the check!?
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Wait. Seriously? Game to game changes based on production in the prior game (which can vary based on opponents), and not what's been happening in practice? Normally teams have starting lineups set by the beginning of conference play, however this is mind-blowing.
 
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The Deuce said:
Just signed her to an extension. She's not going anywhere next year.
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I agree with most of the criticism here, but I'll offer a counterpoint.

The Tenn system is in theory supposed to generate more shot attempts than the opponent, and those extra shots should be 3's leading to victory. Even in the SC beatdown, Tenn had more shots than SC, but they went wasted going 10 of 44 from 3 point land.

This is still Caldwell's first recruiting class and that group are only freshmen, so she will still have some wiggle room for her system until her future recruited 'shooters' possibly fix these results.

Despite serious challenges vs UConn and SC, Tenn only has 2 SEC losses, so they are still much in the hunt. They finish with TX, Vandy and OleMiss. A chance for some marquis wins...or for continued losses.
 
packwrap said:
I agree with most of the criticism here, but I'll offer a counterpoint.

The Tenn system is in theory supposed to generate more shot attempts than the opponent, and those extra shots should be 3's leading to victory. Even in the SC beatdown, Tenn had more shots than SC, but they went wasted going 10 of 44 from 3 point land.

This is still Caldwell's first recruiting class and that group are only freshmen, so she will still have some wiggle room for her system until her future recruited 'shooters' possibly fix these results.

Despite serious challenges vs UConn and SC, Tenn only has 2 SEC losses, so they are still much in the hunt. They finish with TX, Vandy and OleMiss. A chance for some marquis wins...or for continued losses.
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The strategy that getting more shots then your opponent usually wins the game goes all the way back to Red Auerbach and the Boston Celtics. The two key components of that strategy are winning the rebound and turnover battles.

Out of curiosity, I took a look at the UConn-TN game. UConn was +9 on rebounds and had 5 fewer turnovers than TN. The Huskies had only 2 more shots than the LV’s, primarily because they made more shots, outshooting TN from the arc as well as overall.
 
BRS24 said:
Wait. Seriously? Game to game changes based on production in the prior game (which can vary based on opponents), and not what's been happening in practice? Normally teams have starting lineups set by the beginning of conference play, however this is mind-blowing.
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She said it in one of her pressers. Yea…. Totally mind blowing
 
oldude said:
I watched Caldwell’s postgame comments which I found stunning. She spoke exceedingly fast, blamed much of the debacle on the players, frequently suggesting to reporters that they should talk to the team for answers to their questions, even though none of the TN players were made available at the postgame presser.

It’s pretty clear that Caldwell has lost the team and doesn’t know what to do. While some BY’ers may revel in the fall of the LV’s, I would love to see a strong TN program again where the annual battles with UConn are must see TV.

I have no idea if the powers that be at TN will make a change at HC. But if I were the AD or school president and I heard Caldwell’s press conference yesterday, I think I might fire her on the spot.
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While I agree with your final sentence & think you’re spot on about her performance at her press conference, there are a couple clauses in most college coach’s contracts that would preclude that from happening. If her employment were to be terminated it would either be with cause or without cause. The big difference here would be major $$$, and IMHO the administration would have to do a lot of legal gymnastics to convince a judge or jury that her performance could be construed as “with cause” unless there are other transgressions the public has no knowledge of. The other clause is obviously the buyout portion of the contract & the better the coach (at least in the eyes of the employer) the higher this amount of $$$ involves. In today’s college sports world the amount of money that is involved in the difference between with or without cause is eye opening, a perfect example was Brian Kelley’s firing by LSU and the legal wrangling over this distinction that followed. JMO
 


I'm not a super-invested observer of the Lady Vols, but this video comes from someone who's been in the loop for many years.
20 minutes long but a lot of level-headed analyses of the situation.
 
Bjbod said:


I'm not a super-invested observer of the Lady Vols, but this video comes from someone who's been in the loop for many years.
20 minutes long but a lot of level-headed analyses of the situation.
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Thanks for sharing this. I appreciated the insight from this reporter. The fact she's been reporting on the team for some time was refreshing to hear, because a lot of these "take" videos come from people who aren't around the team and players.
 
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Tennessee at the crossroad tonight

Turn right. Stay with the program but lose. This could lead to a whole scale rebellion and endanger the rest of the year and herald a meltdown of epic proportions. The fans will be in open revolt screaming for the coach's who loses to a fired former coach. Kelly still has some fans in Knoxville.

Turn left. Player rebellion. Ignore the program and play one-on-one ball. Win would be only temporary and a crash can happen later against another higher quality opponent. A loss should lead to the benching of many starters for the rest of the year. Playe the freshmen and try to rebuild when Olyvia Edwards arrives.

Go straight. Players Stay with the program and win. The probability - but it won't satisfy the pitchfork bearing fans. They really need a win over a top 4 SEC team like a Vanderbilt.
 
visitingcock said:
Tennessee at the crossroad tonight

Turn right. Stay with the program but lose. This could lead to a whole scale rebellion and endanger the rest of the year and herald a meltdown of epic proportions. The fans will be in open revolt screaming for the coach's who loses to a fired former coach. Kelly still has some fans in Knoxville.

Turn left. Player rebellion. Ignore the program and play one-on-one ball. Win would be only temporary and a crash can happen later against another higher quality opponent. A loss should lead to the benching of many starters for the rest of the year. Playe the freshmen and try to rebuild when Olyvia Edwards arrives.

Go straight. Players Stay with the program and win. The probability - but it won't satisfy the pitchfork bearing fans. They really need a win over a top 4 SEC team like a Vanderbilt.
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No disagreement with your analysis but I would ask a question related to what you wrote, highlighted above.

If Caldwell is wholesale subbing out the players within the first few minutes of the games, what does the term "starter" really mean within the context of her system?
 
cabbie191 said:
No disagreement with your analysis but I would ask a question related to what you wrote, highlighted above.

If Caldwell is wholesale subbing out the players within the first few minutes of the games, what does the term "starter" really mean within the context of her system?
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For me generally starter, in this context, means those who play more than 20 minutes per game . Sub means those who play less than 20 minutes

And I would release freshmen like Pauldo from my benching the starters
 
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Rocket009 said:
I noticed that all the vol fans that were saying they should have kept Kelly as coach are very quiet now....
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Poor Missouri, they were caught in a storm. Kelly needs a chance to recruit.

The Vols get no reprieve. Win one that they should win and now it's onward home to TX. For fans of physical SEC games, this one should be entertaining.
 
JstVisiting said:
Vic Schaefer just blasted his players in a postgame press conference. The Horns are doomed.
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My thoughts exactly lol. Everyone blasted Caldwell for her presser and what do you know, her tactic worked and Tennessee comes out playing laser focused in their next game.

I think fans in general forget how difficult it is to build (or rebuild) a program into a national power. Almost every great coach has growing pains and down years along the way. If Kim Caldwell winds up being a great coach for Tennessee, it will likely be no different. Looking across the country at some of the top coaches and you have:

Geno-took 6 years to reach a Final Four, team didn't make notable improvements until year 4 when standout recruit Kerri Bascom was a sophomore.
Dawn-took 4 years at South Carolina to make the NCAA tournament, 7 years to make a Final Four. Program didn't catch fire until standout Tiffany Mitchell was a sophomore.
Kim Mulkey-took 5 years to make a Final Four, program regressed between years 2 and 3.
Shea Ralph-team regressed between year 1 and 2, took 5 years to break through as a top program when standout Mikalya Blakes was a sophomore.
Vic Schafer-started strong for 2 years before program regressed in year 3 at Texas. Rebounded well in years 4/5/6.

Other standout coaches like Wes Moore, Jeff Walz, Brenda Frese, Kim Barnes-Arico and Kevin McGuff all have had years where they've overachieved and others where they notably underachieve relative to expectations. It's part of the business and fans have unrealistic expectations if they think a new coach can immediately transform their program to become a steady national power from day 1.
 
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