In praise of a weak conference

[OldAlum]

There has been some talk of the disadvantage UConn has of playing in a "weak" conference. However, I think there are also some advantages.

Playing against weaker teams gives more time to develop timing, plays and players. There will be time to experiment with different combinations of players in game situations. And freshmen can play more extended minutes to help them mesh with the team.

The team won't be playing the next strongest team in the nation two or three times before the tournament! It is more interesting and better for WCBB if this doesn't happen.

Interesting OOC matchups can provide those testing games (if the team ever gets one...).

Yes, I know there are disadvantages. (Though I really don't see recruit thinking " I don't want to play for the National Champion because of their conference schedule!") We saw in the exhibition and UCD games how the team progress and strength can be overestimated and there is nothing like playing good opposition to improve a team. Still, there are some advantages to this schedule.

 

[DobbsRover2]

There has been some talk of the disadvantage UConn has of playing in a "weak" conference. However, I think there are also some advantages.

Playing against weaker teams gives more time to develop timing, plays and players. There will be time to experiment with different combinations of players in game situations. And freshmen can play more extended minutes to help them mesh with the team.

The team won't be playing the next strongest team in the nation two or three times before the tournament! It is more interesting and better for WCBB if this doesn't happen.

Interesting OOC matchups can provide those testing games (if the team ever gets one...).

Yes, I know there are disadvantages. (Though I really don't see recruit thinking " I don't want to play for the National Champion because of their conference schedule!") We saw in the exhibition and UCD games how the team progress and strength can be overestimated and there is nothing like playing good opposition to improve a team. Still, there are some advantages to this schedule.

Stanford was a fairly testing game OOC, and being down 10 at ND was a test that UConn passed extremely well. A team like USF can be surprisingly tough, but fortunately for the run through the AAC there is the USCar game to keep the team focused.

 

[Bayareahusky]

I dont see any disadvantage as long as the OOC schedule is strong.....

 

[Zorro]

Try to think of a conference in which most of UConn's games would be competitive.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Try to think of a conference in which most of UConn's games would be competitive.

Maybe the men's AAC? Not sure if USF and Temple could stay with the UConn women though.

 

[UcMiami]

The issue is not having too many of the CofC or UCD games where the opponent is so overmatched that it can allow some bad habits to creep in. There were certainly a number of old BE teams that fell into that category but in the BE there were enough teams like St. John's and Syracuse and DePaul to challenge even if they didn't threaten to win very often. The problem with the AAC is that at the moment there are a few of those teams but none of the Louisville/Rutgers/ND teams so the top of the league is just the challenging games and the bottom end of overmatched is larger.

I would also say that the current format of league play is squeezing out the number of available OOC games - big east was a 16 game schedule, the AAC is 18.

 

[OldAlum]

Great minds...

 

[HoopsFan21]

The issue is not having too many of the CofC or UCD games where the opponent is so overmatched that it can allow some bad habits to creep in. There were certainly a number of old BE teams that fell into that category but in the BE there were enough teams like St. John's and Syracuse and DePaul to challenge even if they didn't threaten to win very often. The problem with the AAC is that at the moment there are a few of those teams but none of the Louisville/Rutgers/ND teams so the top of the league is just the challenging games and the bottom end of overmatched is larger.

I would also say that the current format of league play is squeezing out the number of available OOC games - big east was a 16 game schedule, the AAC is 18.

I agree the conference schedule needs to be cut back. There is no reason we need to see teams like Tulane, SMU, Houston, Tulsa, and Memphis try to play the Huskies twice a year, and then maybe a third time in the conference tournament.

As far as our detractors go that predict the demise of UConn because of this weak conference, yeah I'm sure top recruits won't want to play for the school whose coach brings home gold medals, has 9 and counting championships, and gets all of their games on TV with nearly half broadcast nationally. Even the mighty ND doesn't get all of their WCBB games broadcast.

 

[uconnell]

I agree the conference schedule needs to be cut back. There is no reason we need to see teams like Tulane, SMU, Houston, Tulsa, and Memphis try to play the Huskies twice a year, and then maybe a third time in the conference tournament.

As far as our detractors go that predict the demise of UConn because of this weak conference, yeah I'm sure top recruits won't want to play for the school whose coach brings home gold medals, has 9 and counting championships, and gets all of their games on TV with nearly half broadcast nationally. Even the mighty ND doesn't get all of their WCBB games broadcast.

True, Nd Duke game was on Fox Sports 2 , not only do we not get that but I didn't even know that channel existed. We watched the box score on the computer.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

It is probably less of an issue for UConn than it would be for some other teams, who might have less successful out-of-conference efforts (especially if they play a high quality OOC sched to balance a weak conference) and then have concerns regarding RPI and seeding. For a clearly dominant program like UConn, which will virtually always have very few losses and convincing wins throughout the competition, the RPI isn't going to factor in significantly to the seeding.

And this twaddle about recruits is just that - nonsense - as it applies to the current UConn program. Again, however, don't think for one second that Old Dominion and La Tech's fates wern't partially sealed by an inability to get elite recruits, reducing the quality of the teams and the willingness of other good teams to play them, yada, yada, yada. It just doesn't apply to UConn at this time.

 

[diggerfoot]

I have a theory, based only on the circumstantial evidence of Stanford, that playing in a weak conference makes a team less ready for the NCAA tournament. I think VanDerveer is a tremendous coach, she usually has great talent, but has not won a title in over 20 years. Until recently, they played in an AAC like conference. They can beat good teams to get to the Final Four, but they can't beat enough good teams in a row to win a championship.

I don't think the same fate necessarily awaits UConn; I think Auriemma is an even better coach, yet count me among those that don't think the AAC gives us much of an advantage.

 

[Vowelguy]

For an elite team, there is no advantage to a weak conference. None.

Sports are about competition, and the AAC provides none of that. Most players like the challenge of a battle and the adrenaline rush. Geno is the rare coach that can fully channel that to self competition, and his track record speaks for itself. But that won't be true of the next coach.

 

[BigBird]

When the Big Ten expands again, which it will, UConn will be at the head of the pickins' list. Forget about the football issue. UC will get beat up, then catch up because of the national recruiting exposure. Bet on it. But don't bet more than you can afford to lose.

 

[HoopsFan21]

When the Big Ten expands again, which it will, UConn will be at the head of the pickins' list. Forget about the football issue. UC will get beat up, then catch up because of the national recruiting exposure. Bet on it. But don't bet more than you can afford to lose.

I disagree. The reason UConn won't be invited to the B1G has nothing to do with football. Just look at the quality of football in that conference these days. The reason UConn won't get into the B1G is because of the B1G's AAU requirement. We better hope for an ACC invite, though I suppose any P5 invite will do.

 

[ThisJustIn]

digger - i was thinking similar thoughts about the Pac-no-longer 10. The competing programs have gotten serious about...competing, and it makes everything a ton more interesting on the West Coast.

At the moment, I think the AAC hurts the men's side of the sports world more than the women's...

 

[DobbsRover2]

So I can think of a bunch of teams that have not won an NC in the last 20 years, maybe about 330 of them. Stanford has always played a very strong OOC schedule, and then after picking up steam in a PAC schedule that has often looked a lot like last year's AAC (couple of strong teams who at least have a prayer of making the NCAA tourney if the committee members aren't good old boys and girls), they head to March Madness and head to 6 FFs in the last 7 years (2nd only to UConn, with ND next best at 4) and an occasional NC game, which is more than 99.9% of the teams in D1.

I have this theory that Duke has never won an NC ever because they're playing in that awesomely tough ACC that leaves them wasted and totally unprepared for the Tourney. Same is true for UNC which like the Devils have not been to the FFs in the last 7 years. But the Cardinal have a system that at least gets them to the brink of an NC with a fighting chance to get one in those years if Jayne wasn't so hobbled, though Maya would have found a way anyway. But 99.9% of the teams would love to have Stanford's problematic system for getting to the FFs.

 

[Geno-ista]

UConn really needs to be in a P-5 conference. We can't sustain forever without the big TV revenues. We wouldn't be able to compete financially for the best coaches if this continues too long. It doesn't affect our womens program now and for the foreseeable Geno future. We are going to need either the Big or the ACC. And let's be honest- it'll be more fun. But I love the cup half full attitude OldAlum!!!!

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

UConn really needs to be in a P-5 conference. We can't sustain forever without the big TV revenues. We wouldn't be able to compete financially for the best coaches if this continues too long. It doesn't affect our womens program now and for the foreseeable Geno future. We are going to need either the Big or the ACC. And let's be honest- it'll be more fun. But I love the cup half full attitude OldAlum!!!!

That's the point I've tried to make in other threads - the TV money in the AAC is paltry and the competition is weak, especially in FB and WBB. There are a few other serviceable MBB teams if Memphis returns to form. Football is what brings in the money and not a lot of TV sets are going to care about watching Temple and Tulane in football. ECU is probably the only FB team in the AAC that averages 50,000 a game.

 

[Geno-ista]

That's the point I've tried to make in other threads - the TV money in the AAC is paltry and the competition is weak, especially in FB and WBB. There are a few other serviceable MBB teams if Memphis returns to form. Football is what brings in the money and not a lot of TV sets are going to care about watching Temple and Tulane in football. ECU is probably the only FB team in the AAC that averages 50,000 a game.

My son in law works at Tulsa Univ- watched ECU put a hurtin on them Thanksgiving Wknd! A Gd amt of fans traveled too!

 

[diggerfoot]

So I can think of a bunch of teams that have not won an NC in the last 20 years, maybe about 330 of them. Stanford has always played a very strong OOC schedule, and then after picking up steam in a PAC schedule that has often looked a lot like last year's AAC (couple of strong teams who at least have a prayer of making the NCAA tourney if the committee members aren't good old boys and girls), they head to March Madness and head to 6 FFs in the last 7 years (2nd only to UConn, with ND next best at 4) and an occasional NC game, which is more than 99.9% of the teams in D1.

I have this theory that Duke has never won an NC ever because they're playing in that awesomely tough ACC that leaves them wasted and totally unprepared for the Tourney. Same is true for UNC which like the Devils have not been to the FFs in the last 7 years. But the Cardinal have a system that at least gets them to the brink of an NC with a fighting chance to get one in those years if Jayne wasn't so hobbled, though Maya would have found a way anyway. But 99.9% of the teams would love to have Stanford's problematic system for getting to the FFs.

Hmm. If this is spawned by my theory, then you must have missed the part about tremendous coach and great talent. There are not 330 teams with a tremendous coach and great talent to get them to the Final Four. In my opinion there have been four; four teams that have precisely the desired "system" for getting to the Final Four of a tremendous coach with great talent. One could argue for six, maybe even eight, but certainly not 330, or 99.9%. Out of my four that I think have the "system" of tremendous coaches and great talent, all got to the Final Four frequently when they had great talent, but only one failed to win a NC in the past twenty years. Indeed, if you expand to six, as some people consider Blair and Mulkey to be tremendous coaches, there still remains only one with that "system" not to get a NC. Only Waltz might be put in the tremendous coach category without a NC, but the Cardinals have not consistently got the level of talent as the Cardinal.

It's a theory; it's circumstantial evidence. I may be wrong, would not be surprised if I was. Heck, you could argue that VanDerveer is not a tremendous coach, challenging my theory that way. You could assert that the Pac-10 was weak right after the USC days, rather than the Stanford days, thus VanDerveer does qualify as having won from a weak conference. Yet what you bring up is largely spurious and irrelevant to the point, indicating you blocked out the part about tremendous coach and great talent, which certainly does not apply to 330 or 99% of Division I, including Duke and UNC.

I know from your posting history it's very important to you to win arguments, no matter what kind of reasoning it takes. Let me help. What would really undermine my theory is pointing out the teams from weak conferences that have won NCs since Stanford's last one. You could pinpoint perhaps two, UConn in 1995 and UConn in 2014. I'm not sure the AAC last year should be considered weak, but if you want to use that to bolster your argument, go for it. Of course, I'll reiterate once again that I consider Auriemma to be a cut above even a "tremendous" coach, focusing kids on perfection as opposed to beating the competition.

Ah, but now you can challenge that discriminating between tremendous and more than tremendous is totally subjective, that Auriemma should be considered in the same "tremendous coach" category and since he has won at least one title from a weak conference my theory has been disproven. That's better logic and evidence than what you've submitted so far. If you want to consider that a "win" for you, let's call it quits.

 

[BigBird]

why did my avatar change when I didn't change it, and why does it let me upload a new avatar but not display it? Why do I keep seeing a colonial soldier? Old man. Confused. Help?

 

[uconnfan68]

There has been some talk of the disadvantage UConn has of playing in a "weak" conference. However, I think there are also some advantages.

Playing against weaker teams gives more time to develop timing, plays and players. There will be time to experiment with different combinations of players in game situations. And freshmen can play more extended minutes to help them mesh with the team.

The team won't be playing the next strongest team in the nation two or three times before the tournament! It is more interesting and better for WCBB if this doesn't happen.

Interesting OOC matchups can provide those testing games (if the team ever gets one...).

Yes, I know there are disadvantages. (Though I really don't see recruit thinking " I don't want to play for the National Champion because of their conference schedule!") We saw in the exhibition and UCD games how the team progress and strength can be overestimated and there is nothing like playing good opposition to improve a team. Still, there are some advantages to this schedule.

We built the Big East from almost nothing to a top conference. We can do it again.

 

[uconnfan68]

I disagree. The reason UConn won't be invited to the B1G has nothing to do with football. Just look at the quality of football in that conference these days. The reason UConn won't get into the B1G is because of the B1G's AAU requirement. We better hope for an ACC invite, though I suppose any P5 invite will do.

They said AAU wasn't a deal breaker as they knew Nebraska was losing their AAU status when they took them in. We're close to AAU status, but a little short in research money. We're in other academic agreements that include some of the BiG. Bottom line, if they thought they'd get a Rutgers level of eyeballs, we'd be in. I think we should keep playing up the New England's top school PR idea (with a big dose of NYC).

 

[Vowelguy]

We built the Big East from almost nothing to a top conference. We can do it again.

Wanna bet?

 

[HoopsFan21]

They said AAU wasn't a deal breaker as they knew Nebraska was losing their AAU status when they took them in. We're close to AAU status, but a little short in research money. We're in other academic agreements that include some of the BiG. Bottom line, if they thought they'd get a Rutgers level of eyeballs, we'd be in. I think we should keep playing up the New England's top school PR idea (with a big dose of NYC).

How are we close to AAU status? It's not like something where you reach a certain level and then you're automatically in. AAU status is very much like conference realignment: you have to be chosen to join by the member schools. There's a reason <100 schools are members.