If Herbst really wants to #BegHarder...

[nelsonmuntz]

she should work on Louisville, WVU and Cincinnati to pitch a full blown merger with the Big 12. Go with 15, or add Boise and BYU. Sell it hard. Bevo won't like it, so offer to cut a separate revenue sharing where the new schools are on their own for TV. The non-Bevo schools might go for it because they would see the writing on the wall that sooner or later, Bevo is history and they are left on an island.

Waiting and hoping seem to be the current plan though.

 

[ctchamps]

she should work on Louisville, WVU and Cincinnati to pitch a full blown merger with the Big 12. Go with 15, or add Boise and BYU. Sell it hard. Bevo won't like it, so offer to cut a separate revenue sharing where the new schools are on their own for TV. The non-Bevo schools might go for it because they would see the writing on the wall that sooner or later, Bevo is history and they are left on an island.

Waiting and hoping seem to be the current plan though.

We have you to thank for this. You finally got into her head!

 

[SAMCRO]

So, she shouldn't have stuck w/ the "we're committed to the BE" and we want to invite UMass, Temple, and upgrade Nova approach? The "we're committed to the BE" approach that Louisville and WVU so honorably are using, as they've been "begging harder" behind closed doors?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

So, she shouldn't have stuck w/ the "we're committed to the BE" and we want to invite UMass, Temple, and upgrade Nova approach? The "we're committed to the BE" approach that Louisville and WVU so honorably are using, as they've been "begging harder" behind closed doors?

If we had tried to stick together with the Big East football schools, a full blown merger with the Big 12 would have been the default position.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Heard a popular song this morning that expressed our relationship to the ACC perfectly.
"Are you gonna kiss me or not?
Are we gonna do this or what?
I think you know I like you alot
But you're 'bout to miss your shot
Are you gonna kiss me or not?"

 

[SAMCRO]

If we had tried to stick together with the Big East football schools, a full blown merger with the Big 12 would have been the default position.

Respectfully disagree. That is still a viable option for the B12. If the B12 has any interest in a full blwon merger, it will happen. Begging Harder or not begging harder has nothing to do with it. If WVU and UL said take all of us or none of us to the B12, that doesn't force the B12's hand. The B12 could go the BYU route for 10, or the BYU, and any 2 out of Boise, Houston, Memphis, SDSU, Nevada, or Colorado St for 12. Still brings in good BB schools (save Boise and CSU) and 2-3 very good FB schools. Herbst's approach had ZERO impact on where this is now w/ the B12.

 

[BlueMAB]

Let's recap nelson's position.

UConn is not valuable enough for the ACC or C-USA.

UConn is powerful enough to keep the Big East together but UConn is not powerful enough to convince Air Force/Boise St/Navy to join the Big East after committing to the Big East.

UConn is powerful enough to convince the Big 12 not to take Louisville/WVU/Cincy without UConn/USF/Rutgers, and/or convince Ville/WVU/Cincy not to leave without UConn/USF/Rutgers.

Quse/Pitt are easily replaced by UMass and Houston.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Respectfully disagree. That is still a viable option for the B12. If the B12 has any interest in a full blwon merger, it will happen. Begging Harder or not begging harder has nothing to do with it. If WVU and UL said take all of us or none of us to the B12, that doesn't force the B12's hand. The B12 could go the BYU route for 10, or the BYU, and any 2 out of Boise, Houston, Memphis, SDSU, Nevada, or Colorado St for 12. Still brings in good BB schools (save Boise and CSU) and 2-3 very good FB schools. Herbst's approach had ZERO impact on where this is now w/ the B12.

There are not a lot of people that have ever been in a negotiation that post on this board.

The Big East would simply approach the Big 12 and propose a merger. Those discussions died earlier, but that was when A&M was still technically in the Big 12 and Missouri had not bolted yet. The Big East has a lot to offer ALL the Big 12 schools, and it makes sense on a lot of levels. Instead, it is every man for themselves and the outcome could be catastrophic for UConn.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Let's recap nelson's position.

UConn is not valuable enough for the ACC or C-USA.

I believe that you are the one arguing that there is nothing that could have been done to save UConn's athletic department. I am the one arguing that it is unacceptable that an athletic program as attractive as UConn's is going to be one of a handful left out at the back end of realignment, and that someone had to screw up to get us here.

 

[BlueMAB]

I believe that you are the one arguing that there is nothing that could have been done to save UConn's athletic department. I am the one arguing that it is unacceptable that an athletic program as attractive as UConn's is going to be one of a handful left out at the back end of realignment, and that someone had to screw up to get us here.

I argued there was virtually nothing that could have been done to save the big east.

The rest of your post, like many, is a figment of your imagination.

 

[HuskyHawk]

There are not a lot of people that have ever been in a negotiation that post on this board.

The Big East would simply approach the Big 12 and propose a merger. Those discussions died earlier, but that was when A&M was still technically in the Big 12 and Missouri had not bolted yet. The Big East has a lot to offer ALL the Big 12 schools, and it makes sense on a lot of levels. Instead, it is every man for themselves and the outcome could be catastrophic for UConn.

I negotiate all day every day. Have for many years now. It is very difficult to negotiate as a group, where the interests of each party may be antagonistic to the interests of each other party. SFU and UConn for example, almost certainly don't have interests that are aligned. UConn and Rutgers may see that they are similar, but they also see that they compete for a single open slot in the ACC or B1G. Asking the schools to pretend that they have a common interest and common goals, and to ignore the ways that their interests do not align is not reasonable.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I negotiate all day every day. Have for many years now. It is very difficult to negotiate as a group, where the interests of each party may be antagonistic to the interests of each other party. SFU and UConn for example, almost certainly don't have interests that are aligned. UConn and Rutgers may see that they are similar, but they also see that they compete for a single open slot in the ACC or B1G. Asking the schools to pretend that they have a common interest and common goals, and to ignore the ways that their interests do not align is not reasonable.

If you negotiate every day, then tell me what your boss would say if you came back and told him/her that there was nothing you could do, but now your entire company is totally screwed? How would that go over?

Every person that argues with me is saying some version of "there is nothing we could do". Do you really believe that?

 

[SAMCRO]

Too funny. Had this been a proposal by Herbst 3 weeks ago, you would have accused her of "begging harder". The broad brush you paint with must make for some interesting negotiations. You make a lot of assumptions and jump to a lot of conclusions based on misinterpreting quotes in the press. All valuable skills in the art of negotiation, no doubt.

But hey, NEGOTIATE HARDER.

There are not a lot of people that have ever been in a negotiation that post on this board.

The Big East would simply approach the Big 12 and propose a merger. Those discussions died earlier, but that was when A&M was still technically in the Big 12 and Missouri had not bolted yet. The Big East has a lot to offer ALL the Big 12 schools, and it makes sense on a lot of levels. Instead, it is every man for themselves and the outcome could be catastrophic for UConn.

 

[HuskyHawk]

If you negotiate every day, then tell me what your boss would say if you came back and told him/her that there was nothing you could do, but now your entire company is totally screwed? How would that go over?

Every person that argues with me is saying some version of "there is nothing we could do". Do you really believe that?

Please understand you are starting from a premise I don't share, which is that these schools, let's say UConn, had as the primary goal of this "negotiation" a strong stable Big East football conference. I think that is false. I think UConn, Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt, and WVU have instead been planning an exit strategy since BC left. I think SFU has no viable options and probably has the BE as its first choice. Cincy and Louisville probably also viewed it as option one. But for the other five, I do not believe it has been the first choice for several years. The BE has long been option B, for most of it's FB members. It is certainly now option B, if not option C, for all but SFU.

So it's not that there is nothing we could do, it's that there is nothing we wanted to do enough to make us do it. I think UConn is weighing the upside of the ACC or B1G or even an unlikely merger with the Big XII, calculating the odds of each, and then looking at the worst case scenario if they fail (Independent FB, BE other sports). I think they are willing to roll the dice based on those odds. Sure, they'd prefer the new big east to independent status, but not if it forecloses what they really want, which is to get out.

Here's the analogy. It's Lets make a deal. Three doors with the ACC, B1G and Independent. You have "new Big East" in hand and can walk away. Do you do so? You are saying "yes"! The presidents of these schools are saying "no way!". This is a calculated risk. Many of us have been telling you that we think Herbst knows the true odds better than we do, and if she's rolling the dice, it's probably the right move.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Please understand you are starting from a premise I don't share, which is that these schools, let's say UConn, had as the primary goal of this "negotiation" a strong stable Big East football conference. I think that is false. I think UConn, Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt, and WVU have instead been planning an exit strategy since BC left. I think SFU has no viable options and probably has the BE as its first choice. Cincy and Louisville probably also viewed it as option one. But for the other five, I do not believe it has been the first choice for several years. The BE has long been option B, for most of it's FB members. It is certainly now option B, if not option C, for all but SFU.

So it's not that there is nothing we could do, it's that there is nothing we wanted to do enough to make us do it. I think UConn is weighing the upside of the ACC or B1G or even an unlikely merger with the Big XII, calculating the odds of each, and then looking at the worst case scenario if they fail (Independent FB, BE other sports). I think they are willing to roll the dice based on those odds. Sure, they'd prefer the new big east to independent status, but not if it forecloses what they really want, which is to get out.

Here's the analogy. It's Lets make a deal. Three doors with the ACC, B1G and Independent. You have "new Big East" in hand and can walk away. Do you do so? You are saying "yes"! The presidents of these schools are saying "no way!". This is a calculated risk. Many of us have been telling you that we think Herbst knows the true odds better than we do, and if she's rolling the dice, it's probably the right move.

Herbst gained nothing by a) openly campaigning for an ACC invitation, b) not figuring out before she did that whether an ACC invitation was a remote possibility, and c) blowing off the Big East in the days after the raid, including no showing at a meeting in New York City that was a 2.5 hour drive from her office when other people had flown in for the meeting. I have never seen a negotiation where one party publicly blows up all its other options and chases a longshot.

Why didn't any schools want to be aligned with UConn? Basically, the other schools in the Big East are saying "anyone but UConn" as they look for other homes. How did we become such a pariah? People say stability and money, but we have covered that elsewhere. Stability can be contractually arranged and there is plenty of money out there for media rights. UConn has done some damage here. Maybe it wasn't all done by Herbst, but we are pretty unpopular right now for an athletic program that has been incredibly successful.

 

[Stinger92860]

If you negotiate every day, then tell me what your boss would say if you came back and told him/her that there was nothing you could do, but now your entire company is totally screwed? How would that go over?

Every person that argues with me is saying some version of "there is nothing we could do". Do you really believe that?

Well first of all, I would only provide that information via a phone call and I would make sure to hold the phone away from my ear.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Why didn't any schools want to be aligned with UConn? Basically, the other schools in the Big East are saying "anyone but UConn" as they look for other homes. How did we become such a pariah? People say stability and money, but we have covered that elsewhere. Stability can be contractually arranged and there is plenty of money out there for media rights. UConn has done some damage here. Maybe it wasn't all done by Herbst, but we are pretty unpopular right now for an athletic program that has been incredibly successful.

I see no evidence of any kind that other schools don't want to be aligned with UConn. There is no basis for these assertions. Instead, what I've seen are indications that Syracuse and Pitt are bummed that they aren't in a league with UConn but they don't give a rat's behind for the rest of the league. Louisville and Pitino seem to demonstrably upset by the prospect of not being in a league with UConn. Mike Brey is begging (harder) to be in a league, any league, with UConn. Coach K and Roy Williams seem to be pleading with the ACC to add UConn. Yes, these are basketball people, but we are hardly unwanted or disliked.

UConn will receive an invite to the ACC, B1G or Big XII before Pitt and Syracuse stop playing in the BE.

 

[BlueMAB]

Every person that argues with me is saying some version of "there is nothing we could do". Do you really believe that?

another figment of your imagination.

there is nothing that UConn and/or Susan Herbst could have done on their own. Saving the conference would have required all of the schools to work together in a position of strength by going after the Big 12 when it was still weak. Something that has never happened.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

There are not a lot of people that have ever been in a negotiation that post on this board.

Are you one of those few?

 

[ruskin]

I really don't get the #begharder shots at Herbst. If not for the mushroom cap BC AD's crackback block, we'd be in the ACC. How was Herbst supposed to stop that? Herbst has SEC cred. I have full confidence she will do whatever it takes to keep us in a BCS conference. I also expect Blumenthal to get involved at some point a la the Utah senators.
We are not a 'pariah'. People need to remember what we bring to the table beyond the national brand of three men's and seven women's national hoop titles. Fairfield County is part of the nation's No. 1 TV market, never mind its wealth. Hartford-New Haven is the 30th. We have our own network (or at least share it w/the Mets). And ESPN, despite its faults, isn't going to sit idly by and let UConn slip into oblivion, especially w/the sweetheart deal it just got from Malloy.
I get the nervousness about all this, but Herbst gives me less reason to be nervous, not more.

 

[MattMang23]

I also have a ton of confidence in her. I'm more optimistic with her than if Austin or Hogan were still in charge.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

If she has SEC cred, then get us in the damn SEC! I do not want to hear about how hard she is trying. I want results. She went all in on a strategy that has completely failed. Where there were 65 teams in BCS conferences 2 years ago, there will soon be 62-64, with UConn, USF, Rutgers and potentially Louisville/WVU and Cincinnati out, and TCU and Utah in. The list of schools that were ever in a major that ended up out of a major in the last 30 years is pretty small, and we are on the verge of joining it. Houston, SMU, Rice, Temple, and now UConn, USF, Rutgers and 1 or 2 others.

That is a disastrous outcome for our athletic program, our school and even our state. We don't owe Herbst a thing. If the job is too hard for her, then she should step down and find someone that can do it.

 

[CTMike]

I vote for you, Nelson. I'm sure you'd have it all figured out in a jiffy.

 

[zls44]

If she has SEC cred, then get us in the damn SEC! I do not want to hear about how hard she is trying. I want results. She went all in on a strategy that has completely failed. Where there were 65 teams in BCS conferences 2 years ago, there will soon be 62-64, with UConn, USF, Rutgers and potentially Louisville/WVU and Cincinnati out, and TCU and Utah in. The list of schools that were ever in a major that ended up out of a major in the last 30 years is pretty small, and we are on the verge of joining it. Houston, SMU, Rice, Temple, and now UConn, USF, Rutgers and 1 or 2 others.

That is a disastrous outcome for our athletic program, our school and even our state. We don't owe Herbst a thing. If the job is too hard for her, then she should step down and find someone that can do it.

You're really out of your mind.

 

[ZooCougar]

Blumenthal and Company have more to do with us not being in the ACC now than Herbst. That water was poisoned long ago.