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I Keep Thinking about Texas

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WestHartHusk

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Will their fan base really accept any of the additions being bandied about for the B12? One has to seriously consider that they would look to the ACC for salvation, which would offer them: 1) better recruiting; 2) better exposure (TV coverage and conference footprint) and generally better institutions; and 3) the ability to keep the LHN going.

Thoughts?
 
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Texas options should the XII collapse:
  • ACC: Maybe able to get a sweetheart deal; but, would have to share the top chair with ND and to a lesser extend FSU and Miami. Plus, even with Texas, the ACC is still a basketball centric conference and it would also have to be nice to various Northeast/Yankee schools. Also, travel costs for alumni with increase along with travel costs for it's Olympic sports
  • SEC: Geographic and cultural (football first, deep south) makes the most sense; but, will not get a sweetheart deal and chance of making football playoffs is reduce due to annual competition with LSU, A&M, Alabama, etc. lastly, A&M may move to block.
  • PAC: Could get a sweetheart deal and only competition for top of the mountain position is USC and to a lesser extent UCLA and Oregon. travel could also be an issue; but, it Texas joined the PAC with friends, would be reduced (pod of Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St).
 
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Texas options should the XII collapse:
  • ACC: Maybe able to get a sweetheart deal; but, would have to share the top chair with ND and to a lesser extend FSU and Miami. Plus, even with Texas, the ACC is still a basketball centric conference and it would also have to be nice to various Northeast/Yankee schools. Also, travel costs for alumni with increase along with travel costs for it's Olympic sports
  • SEC: Geographic and cultural (football first, deep south) makes the most sense; but, will not get a sweetheart deal and chance of making football playoffs is reduce due to annual competition with LSU, A&M, Alabama, etc. lastly, A&M may move to block.
  • PAC: Could get a sweetheart deal and only competition for top of the mountain position is USC and to a lesser extent UCLA and Oregon. travel could also be an issue; but, it Texas joined the PAC with friends, would be reduced (pod of Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St).
B1G would also be a possibility. I'm sure the B1G would swallow their "requirement" for the AAU for Oklahoma. Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas and either Mizzou, or go east for UConn (or Virginia if the ACC GOR is dead).

But, again, the GOR will keep the BXII for some time, I'd expect.
 
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I just don't see them agreeing to allow teams like Memphis or Cincinnati in there conference. I am pretty sure they gnash there teeth to play some of the teams they play already. Especially when they have so many options.....
 

HuskyHawk

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Texas options should the XII collapse:
  • ACC: Maybe able to get a sweetheart deal; but, would have to share the top chair with ND and to a lesser extend FSU and Miami. Plus, even with Texas, the ACC is still a basketball centric conference and it would also have to be nice to various Northeast/Yankee schools. Also, travel costs for alumni with increase along with travel costs for it's Olympic sports
  • SEC: Geographic and cultural (football first, deep south) makes the most sense; but, will not get a sweetheart deal and chance of making football playoffs is reduce due to annual competition with LSU, A&M, Alabama, etc. lastly, A&M may move to block.
  • PAC: Could get a sweetheart deal and only competition for top of the mountain position is USC and to a lesser extent UCLA and Oregon. travel could also be an issue; but, it Texas joined the PAC with friends, would be reduced (pod of Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St).

For whatever it is worth, a full break-up of the Big XII is the best answer for UConn. Either a few schools become free to move with UConn to the B1G, or they need a home and the AAC becomes a better league. Not likely however.
 
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Texas options should the XII collapse:
  • ACC: Maybe able to get a sweetheart deal; but, would have to share the top chair with ND and to a lesser extend FSU and Miami. Plus, even with Texas, the ACC is still a basketball centric conference and it would also have to be nice to various Northeast/Yankee schools. Also, travel costs for alumni with increase along with travel costs for it's Olympic sports
  • SEC: Geographic and cultural (football first, deep south) makes the most sense; but, will not get a sweetheart deal and chance of making football playoffs is reduce due to annual competition with LSU, A&M, Alabama, etc. lastly, A&M may move to block.
  • PAC: Could get a sweetheart deal and only competition for top of the mountain position is USC and to a lesser extent UCLA and Oregon. travel could also be an issue; but, it Texas joined the PAC with friends, would be reduced (pod of Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St).
What about the AAC? Pretty sure we'd take them in.
 
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Will their fan base really accept any of the additions being bandied about for the B12? One has to seriously consider that they would look to the ACC for salvation, which would offer them: 1) better recruiting; 2) better exposure (TV coverage and conference footprint) and generally better institutions; and 3) the ability to keep the LHN going.

Thoughts?
if being an island is as bad as people suggest, why would Texas opt for that.
The Big12 had a much better resume than the ACC. Had FSU lost at all during the season, the ACC would have been shut out and the Big12 could have had one or maybe two teams.
If anything, the Big12 could afford to take a couple 'less palatable' additions similar to Syracuse and Pitt to the ACC.
I don't see Texas giving up it's position as king pin in the Big12 to being a lackey for tobacco road.
 
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Texas options should the XII collapse:
  • ACC: Maybe able to get a sweetheart deal; but, would have to share the top chair with ND and to a lesser extend FSU and Miami. Plus, even with Texas, the ACC is still a basketball centric conference and it would also have to be nice to various Northeast/Yankee schools. Also, travel costs for alumni with increase along with travel costs for it's Olympic sports
  • SEC: Geographic and cultural (football first, deep south) makes the most sense; but, will not get a sweetheart deal and chance of making football playoffs is reduce due to annual competition with LSU, A&M, Alabama, etc. lastly, A&M may move to block.
  • PAC: Could get a sweetheart deal and only competition for top of the mountain position is USC and to a lesser extent UCLA and Oregon. travel could also be an issue; but, it Texas joined the PAC with friends, would be reduced (pod of Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St).
the flaw in that logic is that the Big12 isn't collapsing unless Texas decides to do something.
 
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For whatever it is worth, a full break-up of the Big XII is the best answer for UConn. Either a few schools become free to move with UConn to the B1G, or they need a home and the AAC becomes a better league. Not likely however.

disagree. uconn needs expansion to get in the club. P4 means uconn still on the outside, but the company just got a little more tolerable.

about 5-6 of those schools would be ahead of uconn:
texas
kansas
oklahoma
kansas state
oklahoma state
baylor (not sure if a fit for Big)
 
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disagree. uconn needs expansion to get in the club. P4 means uconn still on the outside, but the company just got a little more tolerable.

about 5-6 of those schools would be ahead of uconn:
texas
kansas
oklahoma
kansas state
oklahoma state
baylor (not sure if a fit for Big)

On advantage of the XII failing is that the PAC almost has no choice if it wishes to expand to grab some of the pieces, which will impact the SEC's and B1G's ability to get to 16 or 20. While there are some choices available to them in their current footprint, only UNLV, BYU (has already said no), and Boise St (does not offer much beyond football). The overlap their existing footprint (Colorado St, San Diego St) are too expensive versus money received (Hawaii), and just aren't big enough (New Mexico).
 
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There is no Husky benefit to the Big 12 folding shop. All those programs would be plucked before UCONN, and then some. Baylor and TCU phones are ringing off the hook right now.
 
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There is no Husky benefit to the Big 12 folding shop. All those programs would be plucked before UCONN, and then some. Baylor and TCU phones are ringing off the hook right now.

Not so sure. Yes, both are in Texas, which is a major recruiting point; but, both are private/religious universities when the focus has been on state universities and both are overlapped by other schools, primarily Texas A&M (SEC) and wherever Texas land. The SEC and B1G both have just 1 private school each (Vanderbilt, Northwestern) and the PAC has 2 (Stanford, USC). TCU while in the DFW metro, is small (8K), as in the 2nd smallest P5 team by total enrollment after Wake and Duke in the ACC and does not offer much outside football, such as basketball. If the XII folded, TCU would struggle to find a new P4 home. Baylor is in slightly better shape with an enrollment of 16K and also offers a solid basketball program. I could see Baylor in the SEC in a state that could easily handle 2 members and is non-threatening to A&M, unlike U Texas
 

The Funster

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Assuming Tex and OK go to Pac 12 I'd be fine going to the left overs from the Big 12. Say, UConn, Cincy, USF or UCF and BYU (if they still want in) or Memphis. Better FB and BB than the American.
 
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Assuming Tex and OK go to Pac 12 I'd be fine going to the left overs from the Big 12. Say, UConn, Cincy, USF or UCF and BYU (if they still want in) or Memphis. Better FB and BB than the American.
To another G6 conference. I'd be fine inviting Kansas, WVU, and Iowa State to the AAC.
 
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disagree. uconn needs expansion to get in the club. P4 means uconn still on the outside, but the company just got a little more tolerable.

about 5-6 of those schools would be ahead of uconn:
texas
kansas
oklahoma
kansas state
oklahoma state
baylor (not sure if a fit for Big)

I just don't agree with half of this post.

Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma? Sure. I would imagine all of these schools would be preferred over UConn if they were all willing to migrate to the B1G.

But Kansas State, Oklahoma State, and Baylor?

Baylor? Baylor's the school that a few years ago had Dempski on the payroll, busily attempting to establish a "creation science" "science department". Baylor's a deeply religious school (chapel attendance is mandatory), and I just don't see that floating with B1G P/Cs. Plus, why would the B1G have interest in KSU or OSU, which are weaker non-flagship schools? And the B1G certainly would have zero interest in KSU or OSU if KU and OU joined the B1G.

Finally, Delany himself has expressed an intention to finish off the NE Corridor. Of the schools in the NE, UConn seems to me to be the best positioned to finish off the NE Corridor. In the NE, only the NY system schools are AAU, and none of those schools seem to have any gridiron heft. Buffalo? Cornell? Ahead of UConn? Getoutahere.

None of Syracuse, BC or UConn are AAU so where's UConn's disadvantage with respect to Cuse or BC? I guess Cuse won a NC in ancient times so Cuse might have a tiny historical advantage over UConn, but is that important in playoff times? Personally, I don' think so, but who am I?

I think what needs to happen is for the B1G to cultivate Kansas -- a school that would have huge interest in the B1G. I think Kansas would bail out of the B12 at the end of the GOR if the B1G offered. A Kansas move would deeply frustrate Oklahoma, which would then consider moving to a league of stability (the B1G or the SEC). Oklahoma seeks academic validity, so I think they would choose the B1G if the B1G could get over "not AAU" and offer them. I imagine OU would be quite giddy over the reinvigoration of the OU-NU rivalry, too.

And that would corner the high and mighty Texas Longhorns. Personally I have no doubt Texas would follow Oklahoma to whichever league Oklahoma was successfully wooed. It's not like the B1G is chopped liver or something. Texas would love the massive exposure it would get from the mega-cities of the northern tier -- that channels our prestige (and fills our coffers from the sale of trinkets). Don't forget that Texas attempted to join the B1G back when the SWC folded, but the B1G had the expansion moratorium in place after adding PSU, so Texas' overtures were politely rejected.

Thus does the door open for UConn to finish off the NE Corridor (and get the B1G to 18). There is definitely a way of thinking that UConn is in the B1G picture, IMO. If the B1G picks off KU, OU, and UT, here comes UConn, and maybe someday we can all have a B1G party.
 
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SubbaBub

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Nothing is static in CR. If a P5 conference dissolves, UConn moves to the back of the line. We have always needed things to break just so to escape.

The only upside of complete chaos is it lands us in a better version of the AAC.
 
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I just don't agree with half of this post.

Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma? Sure. I would imagine all of these schools would be preferred over UConn if they were all willing to migrate to the B1G.

But Kansas State, Oklahoma State, and Baylor?

Baylor? Baylor's the school that a few years ago had Dempski on the payroll, busily attempting to establish a "creation science" "science department". Baylor's a deeply religious school (chapel attendance is mandatory), and I just don't see that floating with B1G P/Cs. Plus, why would the B1G have interest in KSU or OSU, which are weaker non-flagship schools? And the B1G certainly would have zero interest in KSU or OSU if KU and OU joined the B1G.

Finally, Delany himself has expressed an intention to finish off the NE Corridor. Of the schools in the NE, UConn seems to me to be the best positioned to finish off the NE Corridor. In the NE, only the NY system schools are AAU, and none of those schools seem to have any gridiron heft. Buffalo? Cornell? Ahead of UConn? Getoutahere.

None of Syracuse, BC or UConn are AAU so where's UConn's disadvantage with respect to Cuse or BC? I guess Cuse won a NC in ancient times so Cuse might have a tiny historical advantage over UConn, but is that important in playoff times? Personally, I don' think so, but who am I?

I think what needs to happen is for the B1G to cultivate Kansas -- a school that would have huge interest in the B1G. I think Kansas would bail out of the B12 at the end of the GOR if the B1G offered. A Kansas move would deeply frustrate Oklahoma, which would then consider moving to a league of stability (the B1G or the SEC). Oklahoma seeks academic validity, so I think they would choose the B1G if the B1G could get over "not AAU" and offer them. I imagine OU would be quite giddy over the reinvigoration of the OU-NU rivalry, too.

And that would corner the high and mighty Texas Longhorns. Personally I have no doubt Texas would follow Oklahoma to whichever league Oklahoma was successfully wooed. It's not like the B1G is chopped liver or something. Texas would love the massive exposure it would get from the mega-cities of the northern tier -- that channels our prestige (and fills our coffers from the sale of trinkets). Don't forget that Texas attempted to join the B1G back when the SWC folded, but the B1G had the expansion moratorium in place after adding PSU, so Texas' overtures were politely rejected.

Thus does the door open for UConn to finish off the NE Corridor (and get the B1G to 18). There is definitely a way of thinking that UConn is in the B1G picture, IMO. If the B1G picks off KU, OU, and UT, here comes UConn, and maybe someday we can all have a B1G party.


For the most part, I agree. I suspect that Kansas would be interested in the B1G. The SEC could even be interested in them as they add basketball cred and can afford a weaker football team. The B1G would Oklahoma, AAU or not, in a heartbeat, especially if it means adding Texas, too. Kansas St and Oklahoma St could also be of interest to the SEC as they are decent football schools; but, if the XII dissolves, I expect them to go to the PAC as the PAC has very few alternatives due to geography. I can't see Texas in the SEC as they would not want to share with Alabama & co. plus A&M may try to block them. I can see Baylor, though, going to the SEC as the SEC cares very little for academics (though Baylor at #71 would 5th in the US News rankings for the SEC behind Vandy, Florida, UGA and A&M) and they have a decent football and basketball brand while appearing to be a less of a threat to A&M than U Texas would be in a state that the SEC could comfortably field 2 teams in. Baylor is also quite a bit larger than TCU. Tech will follow the two other State U's to the PAC. As for the B1G, due to football scheduling, I would expect them to go to 16 (two divisions of 8) or 20 (4 pods of 5), not 18. Then again, they are at 14 now.
 
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Nothing is static in CR. If a P5 conference dissolves, UConn moves to the back of the line. We have always needed things to break just so to escape.

The only upside of complete chaos is it lands us in a better version of the AAC.

The conference "most likely to dissolve" continues to be the B12.

If the B12 dissolves, I don't see UConn moving to the back of the line. I think UConn will move into slot #4, behind UT, OU, and KU. I think the B1G takes all four if the B1G decides Texas is sufficiently important to corral.

Furthermore, I think we can make reasonable predictions about the future given current events. There is no reason to believe that the B12 stabilizes over the next several years, best I can tell.

There is much discontent among B12 fans at the top 3 schools (and even at schools like TT, who imagines "Texoma" fleeing to the PAC). Judging from recent comments of Bob Bowlsby, there also appears to be much confusion at the top echelons of the B12. The TCU/Baylor snub is certainly a bad portent for the B12.

While there is a lot of time between now and June 2025 -- the end of the B12 GOR -- I nevertheless think continued B12 discontent is UConn's best friend. JMO.
 
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Sweetheart deal or not, I just can't see Texas joining the ACC and its lack of quality football. It would be a death sentence. In hindsight, Texas has made a few huge mistakes, with one of them ultimately forcing its hand.....the mistake: underestimating Texas A&M and its worth. To remain "top dog" in state, Texas will now have no choice but join either the SEC or PAC 12 or simply run the risk of slowly losing ground to its in state rival.
 
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I just don't agree with half of this post.

Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma? Sure. I would imagine all of these schools would be preferred over UConn if they were all willing to migrate to the B1G.

But Kansas State, Oklahoma State, and Baylor?

Baylor? Baylor's the school that a few years ago had Dempski on the payroll, busily attempting to establish a "creation science" "science department". Baylor's a deeply religious school (chapel attendance is mandatory), and I just don't see that floating with B1G P/Cs. Plus, why would the B1G have interest in KSU or OSU, which are weaker non-flagship schools? And the B1G certainly would have zero interest in KSU or OSU if KU and OU joined the B1G.

Finally, Delany himself has expressed an intention to finish off the NE Corridor. Of the schools in the NE, UConn seems to me to be the best positioned to finish off the NE Corridor. In the NE, only the NY system schools are AAU, and none of those schools seem to have any gridiron heft. Buffalo? Cornell? Ahead of UConn? Getoutahere.

None of Syracuse, BC or UConn are AAU so where's UConn's disadvantage with respect to Cuse or BC? I guess Cuse won a NC in ancient times so Cuse might have a tiny historical advantage over UConn, but is that important in playoff times? Personally, I don' think so, but who am I?

I think what needs to happen is for the B1G to cultivate Kansas -- a school that would have huge interest in the B1G. I think Kansas would bail out of the B12 at the end of the GOR if the B1G offered. A Kansas move would deeply frustrate Oklahoma, which would then consider moving to a league of stability (the B1G or the SEC). Oklahoma seeks academic validity, so I think they would choose the B1G if the B1G could get over "not AAU" and offer them. I imagine OU would be quite giddy over the reinvigoration of the OU-NU rivalry, too.

And that would corner the high and mighty Texas Longhorns. Personally I have no doubt Texas would follow Oklahoma to whichever league Oklahoma was successfully wooed. It's not like the B1G is chopped liver or something. Texas would love the massive exposure it would get from the mega-cities of the northern tier -- that channels our prestige (and fills our coffers from the sale of trinkets). Don't forget that Texas attempted to join the B1G back when the SWC folded, but the B1G had the expansion moratorium in place after adding PSU, so Texas' overtures were politely rejected.

Thus does the door open for UConn to finish off the NE Corridor (and get the B1G to 18). There is definitely a way of thinking that UConn is in the B1G picture, IMO. If the B1G picks off KU, OU, and UT, here comes UConn, and maybe someday we can all have a B1G party.
So now 18 teams in a conference? At that size, the conference then begins a split discussion with the haves taking off with 12 teams and the 6 have nots being left behind, again. The revenue pie at 12-14 seems to be making sense. You can justify some of the laggards based on population and TV eyeballs (RU, MD, IL, NW) at 14. At 18, can you justify a full share of the pie for six or 8 laggards in terms of competition? When does size become a dilution factor in the rankings?

With 18, you have 8 in division games and then how many cross division games? How does the increased teams benefit the conference champion if it comes from the weaker division? Or if in a championship game, the stronger division winner only squeaks by? It is working at 14 because it allows greater cross over even with an 8 game in conference schedule. 16 could work if conferences move to 9 or 10 in conference games. 18 makes it difficult.

The only conference that has a need is the XII. They need a championship game that will allow its champion to stand out on the crucial last weekend. Its how OSU jumped the pack. They need better competition within the league which means TX needs to step up its game. They need more teams to get that magical game #13 for two of its teams. Make Uconn the answer to their need.
 
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Sweetheart deal or not, I just can't see Texas joining the ACC and its lack of quality football. It would be a death sentence. In hindsight, Texas has made a few huge mistakes, with one of them ultimately forcing its hand.....the mistake: underestimating Texas A&M and its worth. To remain "top dog" in state, Texas will now have no choice but join either the SEC or PAC 12 or simply run the risk of slowly losing ground to its in state rival.

Concur on the ACC part as it remains a basketball focused conference outside of Florida St (and Clemson), plus, it now has northeast/academic culture that Texas may find hard to swallow. I also agree that the PAC would offer Texas a better deal, possibly ND like; but, the BIG could offer more money. While some programs are down, playing in a conference with Ohio St, Michigan etc and being in a 5 team pod potentially with Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, and Iowa (or Illinois) should keep Texas's football brand healthy.
 

pj

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Kansas would move to the B1G in an instant. They have more historic ties to Nebraska than Texas. Missouri, their foremost rival, has gone to the SEC. The academic side of Kansas would want to be associated with the CIC.

If the B1G wants Kansas and Oklahoma, they'll be able to get them. I'm doubtful about Texas though.

For those thinking UConn is less valuable than Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Baylor, TCU, or for that matter West Virginia, Iowa State, and Texas Tech, in what universe and to whom? To the B1G or ACC, UConn is more valuable than any of those schools. Some would be more valuable to the SEC, but only because they have this southern culture thing going; in terms of money, UConn would bring more to the SEC than any of those schools. To the Pac, yes, but only for geographic reasons. UConn brings vastly larger markets than any of the B12 schools save Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas, and rivals Kansas and Oklahoma. It is markets that are being monetized in the new TV paradigms. The few years of football success Baylor and TCU and Oklahoma State and Kansas State have had will not make up for their small market pull.
 
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With 18, you have 8 in division games and then how many cross division games? How does the increased teams benefit the conference champion if it comes from the weaker division? Or if in a championship game, the stronger division winner only squeaks by? It is working at 14 because it allows greater cross over even with an 8 game in conference schedule. 16 could work if conferences move to 9 or 10 in conference games. 18 makes it difficult.
I don't quite get this. 4 home division games; 4 road division games; 1 road inter-divisional game; 1 home inter-divisional game.

That seems to make much more sense than 16, at least. And, I suspect these conferences don't plan on adding much dreck.

B1G East

UConn
Indiana
Maryland
Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Penn State
Purdue
Rutgers

B1G West
Illinois
Iowa
Kansas
Minnesota
Nebraska
Northwestern
Oklahoma
Texas
Wisconsin

Which football division is stronger (Michigan-MSU-OSU-PSU vs. Texas-Oklahoma-Nebraska-Wisconsin)?
Which basketball division is stronger?

That's balanced.

And anyway, conferences that have divisions now have stronger and weaker ones (ACC, for instance, for a long time), and it hasn't caused that much of a problem.
 
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