How does UConn's talent compare to other BE teams?

[Palatine]

If not by star rating, how should we rate BE football talent?

Here’s an idea. How about actual performance on the field? Say, by looking at
All BE post-season honors. The BE awards 1st and 2nd team selections along with STs. Since 2005 it breaks out like this.

Year UC CI LV RU SU WV PT SF
2012 8 ---8- 8 --8-- 5---0-- - 5 -4
2011 9 ---8-- 3 --8-- 6 --10-- 6-- 6
2010 7 ---7-- 6 --1 --7 ---11-- 7-- 7
2009 7 --11-- 1 --3-- 4 ---9 --14-- 6
2008 6-- 10-- 6-- 5 -3 ---9-- 6--- 6
2007 4-- 7 --6-- 7-- 5-- 10 --10-- 6
2006 2 --6-- 11-- 14 --3-- 9-- 5 --3
2005 4 --2-- 9-- 6-- 3 --12-- 8-- 6

The totals break down like this WVU-70, Pitt-61, RU -52, UC-35, UL-51, UConn-47, USF-44, SU-36. It looks like UConn is a bottom dweller just like the sportswriters say.

However, the trend clearly favors UConn. Eliminate WVU who is no longer in the conference. And look at the most recent four years, the numbers move significantly.

Year UC CI LV RU SU PT SF
2012 8-- 8-- 8 --8 --5 --5-- 4
2011 9-- 8 --3-- 8 --6 --6-- 6
2010 7 --7 --6-- 1-- 7-- 7 ---7
2009 7-- 11- 1 --3-- 4-- 14 -6

Cinny 34, Pitt 32, UConn 31, USF 23, Cuse 22, Rutgers 20, L’ville 18.

UConn, Cinny and Pitt (thanks to 2009) are clearly the class of the conference. Not surprising all have played in BCS Bowls. There is a big drop off to USF, Cuse, RU and L’ville.

This objective look at talent does not support Dez or Silver. This is not the final word and reasonable men can disagree. But the “UConn doesn’t have the talent to compete crowd” has little to hang their hat on.

 

[Dann]

the no talent crowd hangs its hat on, well on O we were young talent wise and didn't have deoth ol blah blah. any realistic HC sees that but all the other talent on D an dhis te's etc and molds games to win anyway. our HC instead hired gdl and lost his watch int he coach cushion for 4 months.

 

[HistoryMajor]

Pal - not arguing with you and I certainly don't think Coach P does a good job preparing the team. And I think he does a terrible job with in game decisions - clock management, run 85% on 1st down, throw to Ryan G when there was no need to throw etc. All that said, there are 22 starters on the FB team (plus specials of course) but all positions are NOT created equal.

QB is far away the most important position. There is no way to overstate this fact. Coach P had a walk on QB and a Jr college transfer with a propensity to throw picks. If we just had an average Big East QB, your position would be much more credible. Let's hope the CW improves or even better, let's hope that Casey or Boyle are head and shoulders better than CW. In summary, our talent shortfall at QB has been enormous. That detracts from the rest of the Team in a disproportionate way.

 

[huskymedic]

If not by star rating, how should we rate BE football talent?

Here’s an idea. How about actual performance on the field? Say, by looking at
All BE post-season honors. The BE awards 1st and 2nd team selections along with STs. Since 2005 it breaks out like this.

Year UC CI LV RU SU WV PT SF
2012 8 ---8- 8 --8-- 5---0-- - 5 -4
2011 9 ---8-- 3 --8-- 6 --10-- 6-- 6
2010 7 ---7-- 6 --1 --7 ---11-- 7-- 7
2009 7 --11-- 1 --3-- 4 ---9 --14-- 6
2008 6-- 10-- 6-- 5 -3 ---9-- 6--- 6
2007 4-- 7 --6-- 7-- 5-- 10 --10-- 6
2006 2 --6-- 11-- 14 --3-- 9-- 5 --3
2005 4 --2-- 9-- 6-- 3 --12-- 8-- 6

The totals break down like this WVU-70, Pitt-61, RU -52, UC-35, UL-51, UConn-47, USF-44, SU-36. It looks like UConn is a bottom dweller just like the sportswriters say.

However, the trend clearly favors UConn. Eliminate WVU who is no longer in the conference. And look at the most recent four years, the numbers move significantly.

Year UC CI LV RU SU PT SF
2012 8-- 8-- 8 --8 --5 --5-- 4
2011 9-- 8 --3-- 8 --6 --6-- 6
2010 7 --7 --6-- 1-- 7-- 7 ---7
2009 7-- 11- 1 --3-- 4-- 14 -6

Cinny 34, Pitt 32, UConn 31, USF 23, Cuse 22, Rutgers 20, L’ville 18.

UConn, Cinny and Pitt (thanks to 2009) are clearly the class of the conference. Not surprising all have played in BCS Bowls. There is a big drop off to USF, Cuse, RU and L’ville.

This objective look at talent does not support Dez or Silver. This is not the final word and reasonable men can disagree. But the “UConn doesn’t have the talent to compete crowd” has little to hang their hat on.

But break it out by offense/defense.... Nobody has said (including the two noted above) that UConn does not have/had talent on defense.

 

[Palatine]

Pal - not arguing with you and I certainly don't think Coach P does a good job preparing the team. And I think he does a terrible job with in game decisions - clock management, run 85% on 1st down, throw to Ryan G when there was no need to throw etc. All that said, there are 22 starters on the FB team (plus specials of course) but all positions are NOT created equal.

QB is far away the most important position. There is no way to overstate this fact. Coach P had a walk on QB and a Jr college transfer with a propensity to throw picks. If we just had an average Big East QB, your position would be much more credible. Let's hope the CW improves or even better, let's hope that Casey or Boyle are head and shoulders better than CW. In summary, our talent shortfall at QB has been enormous. That detracts from the rest of the Team in a disproportionate way.

I agree. QB is critical. I feel the bigger issue was the misuse of offensive personnel, the game planning and the game day decisions. All of these land squarely on the coaching staff.

Besides, last year our QB play was competent, it had its moments. Keep in mind that were 5th in the BE in passing offense and virtually tied with Cinny for 4th in pass competition percentage. Back to coaching, if you don't have a great QB, you have to use imagination on offense. Misdirection, keeping the defense off balance, trick plays, and you have to cash in your opportunities. Our staff did none of these.

We were also first in the conference in total defense. And doesn't the old saying go that "defense wins championships."

Regardless, I think the idea that we didn't have the talent to compete with Rutgers or Syracuse can be put to bed. We were poorly led, outcoached almost every game. We played poorly on some occasions. But I contend, we had the talent -if we played well- to win every game on our schedule. Heck, the two best teams we played were Louisville and NC State and both were squeakers.

 

[Palatine]

But break it out by offense/defense.... Nobody has said (including the two noted above) that UConn does not have/had talent on defense.

Your statement is wrong. Dez stated we didn't have the talent to compete with Syracuse Rutgers or Cincinnati. Silver made similar comments but I don't have the exact quote.

 

[huskymedic]

Your statement is wrong. Dez stated we didn't have the talent to compete with Syracuse Rutgers or Cincinnati. Silver made similar comments but I don't have the exact quote.

I don't believe so...John Silver specifically mentions offense and offensive line multiple times. As did Duffy/Ostrout and others. We had superior talent on defense. Offense - not so much.

Back to the circular argument...yes, coaches had a huge role in season outcome but you can't ignore our lack of offensive playmakers. As referenced by ALL BE selections - we placed 1 offensive playmaker on second team (Griffin), 1 offensive lineman who didn't finish season on second team (Masters) and Williams on second team ST. All others were Defense.

Edit... I may have a tendency to agree that we had the "talent" to compete - we just seemed (in my opinion) to have a miss balance on the side of the ball where the talent was deployed.

 

[whaler11]

UConn has been mediocre for two season for one simple reason: Offensive line play.

There still really isn't an excuse for WMU, Temple and USF this year nor is there one for Vandy or WMU last year. That makes them 15-9 instead of 10-14.

Even with some brutal performances like Ville and Pitt in 11 or Syracuse in 12, They would actually have some good momentum coming off 8-4 with the class they signed.

 

[MattMang23]

Break it down however you'd like but any breakdown that doesn't put Louisville in the top 2-3 of BE teams in current talent is flawed.

 

[Palatine]

Break it down however you'd like but any breakdown that doesn't put Louisville in the top 2-3 of BE teams in current talent is flawed.

Yes, you're right, this method is imperfect. But... we did beat L'ville this year and four years ago they stunk. My guess is that their would have come up in numbers if they stayed in the conference.

 

[Waquoit]

UConn has been mediocre for two season for one simple reason: Offensive line play.

And our OL line coach just spent the year in the booth instead of coaching them up in-game.

 

[Palatine]

And our OL line coach just spent the year in the booth instead of coaching them up in-game.

I think that is often over looked. There was no way for him to make adjustments in technique or work with individual players from upstairs.

The thing about the offensive line is that cohesion and communication are more important than talent. It is one area where the whole is much more than the sum of its parts.

 

[rich1122]

Pal - not arguing with you and I certainly don't think Coach P does a good job preparing the team. And I think he does a terrible job with in game decisions - clock management, run 85% on 1st down, throw to Ryan G when there was no need to throw etc. All that said, there are 22 starters on the FB team (plus specials of course) but all positions are NOT created equal.

QB is far away the most important position. There is no way to overstate this fact. Coach P had a walk on QB and a Jr college transfer with a propensity to throw picks. If we just had an average Big East QB, your position would be much more credible. Let's hope the CW improves or even better, let's hope that Casey or Boyle are head and shoulders better than CW. In summary, our talent shortfall at QB has been enormous. That detracts from the rest of the Team in a disproportionate way.

In summary, our talent shortfall at QB has been enormous. That detracts from the rest of the Team in a disproportionate way.

1. Yes this. Whitmer made strides in the second half and we seem to have recruited legit D1 QB's. Say what you want about the playcalling, but P was left without a D1 QB and it's just too tough to survive. I say that we make strides this year, especially with the addition of Weist.

Whitmer's decision making should improve. He needs more arm strength and less loft on the ball for those sideline passes.

 

[Palatine]

In summary, our talent shortfall at QB has been enormous. That detracts from the rest of the Team in a disproportionate way.

1. Yes this. Whitmer made strides in the second half and we seem to have recruited legit D1 QB's. Say what you want about the playcalling, but P was left without a D1 QB and it's just too tough to survive. I say that we make strides this year, especially with the addition of Weist.

Whitmer's decision making should improve. He needs more arm strength and less loft on the ball for those sideline passes.

Whitmer was in the middle of the pack for BE QBs. Saying he wasn't good enough to be D1 is a low blow. And P made no effort to develop Nebrich last year (or even give him a chance). So he helped make his bed.

 

[gioff23]

Here's another stat that can describe the ability of the players to win games

2011 5-7
2012 5-7

and those ain't stars. At some point, you have to stop blaming everyone and just come to grips with the fact that they were not good teams. They had good players, good moments, but not the ability to win enough games to go bowling - which is like missing out on the NBA or NHL playoffs. Good teams don't look at their HS ratings, individual acolades, but Ws and Ls, and for the past 2 years we have not generated Ws. even against inferior opponents.

 

[Palatine]

Here's another stat that can describe the ability of the players to win games

2011 5-7
2012 5-7

and those ain't stars. At some point, you have to stop blaming everyone and just come to grips with the fact that they were not good teams. They had good players, good moments, but not the ability to win enough games to go bowling - which is like missing out on the NBA or NHL playoffs. Good teams don't look at their HS ratings, individual acolades, but Ws and Ls, and for the past 2 years we have not generated Ws. even against inferior opponents.

That certainly is legitimate. However, like any stat it doesn't tell the whole story. Teams commonly play above or below their talent level. IMHO, coaching was our biggest problem.

Even look at at 5-7, it is one FG from .500, so our talent could NOT have been that poor. And break down those wins and loses. We played even with the two best teams on our schedule.

My take away remains we had the talent to beat everyone on our schedule. We didn't have the coaching to do it.