How a juco recruit goes from unranked to No. 1 in America in a week (The Athletic)

[huskymedic]

If you have access to the Athletic - worth the click: How a juco recruit goes from unranked to No. 1 in America in a week.

>>Last Monday, defensive back Art Green posted an announcement via Twitter: He was coming to Tennessee.

When he did it, he didn’t have a ranking on any of the major recruiting services. By the middle of the week, he’d ascended to top-tier status as the No. 2 junior college prospect in the United States.

“Actually, I’m No. 1 now,” Green told The Athletic.

He was right. He’d passed up edge rusher Jordan Davis, the previous No. 1, to ascend to the top of 247Sports Composite rankings for junior college prospects. Davis, coincidentally, committed to Tennessee on Nov. 13.<<

>> “I think the rankings are so tied to recruiting that there are a lot of less-known players that are really talented and might go unranked because of where they sit in terms of offers,” said Hutchinson Community College head coach Rion Rhodes, Green’s coach.

“The stars come with recruitment by the big schools, the SEC in particular. But some of those top five programs, when they get involved with a kid, it seems like their rankings go up. He’s good and super talented, but a lot of that stuff is tied to recruitment more than people that see him every day doing what they do and understanding all the strengths and weaknesses they bring to the table.”<<

More in-depth discussion in article.

 

[Exit 4]

If you have access to the Athletic - worth the click: How a juco recruit goes from unranked to No. 1 in America in...

>>Last Monday, defensive back Art Green posted an announcement via Twitter: He was coming to Tennessee.

When he did it, he didn’t have a ranking on any of the major recruiting services. By the middle of the week, he’d ascended to top-tier status as the No. 2 junior college prospect in the United States.

“Actually, I’m No. 1 now,” Green told The Athletic.

He was right. He’d passed up edge rusher Jordan Davis, the previous No. 1, to ascend to the top of 247Sports Composite rankings for junior college prospects. Davis, coincidentally, committed to Tennessee on Nov. 13.<<

>> “I think the rankings are so tied to recruiting that there are a lot of less-known players that are really talented and might go unranked because of where they sit in terms of offers,” said Hutchinson Community College head coach Rion Rhodes, Green’s coach.

“The stars come with recruitment by the big schools, the SEC in particular. But some of those top five programs, when they get involved with a kid, it seems like their rankings go up. He’s good and super talented, but a lot of that stuff is tied to recruitment more than people that see him every day doing what they do and understanding all the strengths and weaknesses they bring to the table.”<<

More in-depth discussion in article.

Absolutely true. Indirectly this gets verified by the transfer process. A lot of the kids ranked 85 (mid to high three star) and higher that are now in the transfer portal from the big programs really don't have special HS tapes. While many do look better than a given developmental two star, a lot of them don't look better than most low ranked three stars (those ranked 80 to 85 using the 247 scale). No surprise, the services like the stroke the egos of their subscriber base by giving a little boost to select programs that pay their bills. Bottomline, there is certainly plenty of grade inflation, especially when the big boys offer.

There is another angle to this I have talked about before as well. I see a lot of kids that have great junior tapes which are followed up by rather unspectacular senior tapes dont get re-ranked down. I feel like this is particularly when the prospect has already committed to a major program. It seems the services dont want to tell that Michigan/Tennessee/Texas (etc) fan base their wonder boy OT looked like a four star as a junior, but played like a three star as a senior.

 

[billybud]

Programs like Alabama hire non coaching "analysts"....former coaches like Mike Locksley and Sarkissian..and former NFL players like Weinke...

They spend time reviewing tapes, analyzing talent..

“They call it best practices,” said Tom Herman, the new coach at Texas. “You go to Alabama, you go to Ohio State, you go to Clemson, you say: ‘What do you got? What’re you doing?’ And one of the things that certainly jumped off the page was the amount of support staff those elite programs had both in recruiting and off-the-field analysts.

So, when a program that invests in identifying talent on their own makes an offer, folks notice.

 

[gioff2323]

Bud, I think you missed the point. No one is arguing that top programs invest a lot in to recruiting and developing talent. The issue is not with them, but with the services who hold themselves out as experts and charge a fee. It would be much simpler if they would simply admit that they have no idea what it is they're doing and that they give stars or numerical ratings to kids based on who offered.

 

[Exit 4]

So, when a program that invests in identifying talent on their own makes an offer, folks notice.

Alabama, Clemson and Oklahoma are about the only programs that have earned the benefit of the doubt on their offers (if you have a low rating on the kid check again). I certainly wouldn't give the same latitude to programs like Penn St, Michigan and ND (and basically all the others in the top 50) who routinely have several commits rounded up by the star system for really no good reason but to keep the subscribers happy.

 

[huskymedic]

Bud, I think you missed the point. No one is arguing that top programs invest a lot in to recruiting and developing talent. The issue is not with them, but with the services who hold themselves out as experts and charge a fee. It would be much simpler if they would simply admit that they have no idea what it is they're doing and that they give stars or numerical ratings to kids based on who offered.

>>But when a player like Green bursts onto the scene, Simmons springs into action. A full evaluation means verifying his height and weight, which was available for Green. At 6-foot-2 and 200 pounds, his size is exceptional for a cornerback. It means asking around on coaching staffs who have seen him play for their input.

“This whole business is about information gathering,” Simmons said. “Sometimes, juco is a little bit tougher. We often don’t have quite the same level of information. We’re not seeing them in a camp circuit in the spring and summer. We’re not hitting as many games in the fall. They’re not quite front and center in our minds.”

It also means verifying his athletic ability by finding an 11.04 100-meter dash time from high school and a 21-foot long jump from back when Green was a two-star receiver recruit that has planned on heading to Arkansas State.

Even that status, though, can be deceiving.

“A guy like that, had he been academically qualified, he probably didn’t have the offer list he deserved coming out of high school, just because he didn’t have the grades. If he’d had the grades, there’s no telling what that offer list could look like,” Simmons said. “That can be misleading when you look at a high school profile versus the juco profile. You have to give them a fresh start.”

He also found video of Green dunking from just in front of the free throw line during a basketball game. The only football film available for review, though, was Green’s five-minute highlight tape, which featured all coverage and no tackling, but did showcase the ball skills and awareness that made him a good receiver in high school.

“That’s a really compelling profile, and that’s really what gave us the thinking and mindset to throw a four-star grade on him,” Simmons said. “If we gather the fact that the guy is soft and doesn’t want to be physical in the run game, that might change our opinion. Or maybe we find out he’s got a lot of toughness and he’s extremely physical and maybe we’ll bump him even higher.”<<

 

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>>
“That’s a really compelling profile, and that’s really what gave us the thinking and mindset to throw a four-star grade on him,” Simmons said. “If we gather the fact that the guy is soft and doesn’t want to be physical in the run game, that might change our opinion. Or maybe we find out he’s got a lot of toughness and he’s extremely physical and maybe we’ll bump him even higher.”<<

Not directly at you Medic,....but Blah-blah-blah - they gave him a four star grade because of who offered. If only a couple MAC schools offer this kid he is back to two star status.

 

[gioff2323]

Sorry Medic, I am not buying it. This is a 2d bite of the apple for these services - they saw him in HS and gave him 2 stars. Why? Because the SEC did not offer. He's the same kid, but now TN (btw, the Vols, not Bama, OU, tOSU, etc., but TN) offers and they look at him on a scale, watch a HS track tape and see a video of him dunking. Let's be honest, it wasn't the scale, the track feats from 2017 or a video of 1 HS dunk . Great analysis. How much do I pay to hear more from Mr. Simmons?

 

[huskymedic]

Not directly at you Medic,....but Blah-blah-blah - they gave him a four star grade because of who offered. If only a couple MAC schools offer this kid he is back to two star status.

Sorry Medic, I am not buying it. This is a 2d bite of the apple for these services - they saw him in HS and gave him 2 stars. Why? Because the SEC did not offer. He's the same kid, but now TN (btw, the Vols, not Bama, OU, tOSU, etc., but TN) offers and they look at him on a scale, watch a HS track tape and see a video of him dunking. Let's be honest, it wasn't the scale, the track feats from 2017 or a video of 1 HS dunk . Great analysis. How much do I pay to hear more from Mr. Simmons?

I’m not arguing against either of your point and I think the HCC Head Coach comment in the OP nailed it.

Did you get to read the article or just basing things on my posted snippets?

 

[Exit 4]

I’m not arguing against either of your point and I think the HCC Head Coach comment in the OP nailed it.

Did you get to read the article or just basing things on my posted snippets?

Snippets only - not a subscriber.

 

[gioff2323]

Ditto. Thanks for clarifying; I was going to start wondering if you were Simmons