HoopSeenW (formerly ASGR?) Releases c/o '23 Top 100 Rankings

[kat0189]

National Rankings for Class of 2023 | Hoopseenw

hoopseenw.com

UConn's Recruits:
#8) KK Arnold
#11) Ashlynn Shade
#16) Quadence Samuels

I believe HoopSeenW purchased ASGR and rebranded? Not precisely sure.

The '23 rankings are pretty consistent with other services.

They put 6'3" guard-forward Canadian Cassandre Prosper at #1. From what I've seen, she's certainly one of the most intriguing prospects in this class, but I really think Mikayla Williams and Juju Watkins will have bigger impacts in college.

Perhaps more newsworthy is the top 10 rankings they released for the c/o 2024: National Rankings for Class of 2024 | Hoopseenw

Shaq's daughter, Me'Arah O'Neal, is #2 after a breakout summer. Also listed 6'3", I actually like what I've seen of her game better than Prosper, as she seems to have really good outside shooting ability.

Then at #8 is a player I had never heard of out of Billings, Montana: 6'2" forward Breanna Williams. On video she looks like a fluid and very versatile power forward, maybe like Sam Brunelle.

c/o 2025 top 10: National Rankings for Class of 2025 | Hoopseenw

 

[BobbyJ]

2023- Sahara Williams at #51? Ridiculous.
2024- They obviously haven't seen Sarah Strong. Not in the top 10? She'd take any of those top 5 forwards apart including #4 Edwards which she already did at the USA 3x3 trials this summer.

 

[Bone Dog]

I’m not surprised by the dip in rankings for KK and Ashlynn. Steady and solid are their primary virtues. They are consummate team players, which means they don’t always show the glitz in summer play. But I’m confident Geno will be able to build the next iteration of the powerhouse with them. I’m also glad to see the rise in the estimation of Qadence’s potential. She deserves a little more recognition.

Also worth noting the change in a few height measurements. Cunningham is now listed at 6’3” which seems more realistic. Del Rosario is now 6’6” which is not implausible. Ashlynn is now 5’10” and KK is 5’9” — these also seem more realistic. Also Qadence is now 6’1” which doesn’t seem right to me, unless Geno really was standing on a phone book in that photo last summer.

 

[Kaizen]

ESPNW has Shade #6, Arnold #7 and Samuels #35.

2023 HoopGurlz Recruiting Rankings - espnW 100 - ESPN

Get the inside scoop on the top ranked high school girls' basketball players. In-depth player briefings, film and more on ESPNHS.com.

www.espn.com

 

[ConnMotors]

ESPNW has Shade #6, Arnold #7 and Samuels #35.

That has not been updated in awhile...

 

[Alydar]

ASGR in the past has had some "questionable" rankings. Like making Gabby Williams No 2 when everyone else was pretty much ignoring her after her ACL's.

 

[CocoHusky]

ASGR in the past has had some "questionable" rankings. Like making Gabby Williams No 2 when everyone else was pretty much ignoring her after her ACL's.

Why would Gabby Williams 2014 #2 ranking be considered "questionable"? Seems spot on for that class which had A'Ja Wilson at #1.

Gabby was stupendous

I think Gabby's performance against the home team was just reamarkable and has to be among her best ever at the pro level at least. Especially when they needed her firepower with Johannes having a last minute injury Here are her highlights. Special attention to the last 2 plays that put the...

the-boneyard.com

 

[oldhusky]

Why would Gabby Williams 2014 #2 ranking be considered "questionable"? Seems spot on for that class which had A'Ja Wilson at #1.

Gabby was stupendous

I think Gabby's performance against the home team was just reamarkable and has to be among her best ever at the pro level at least. Especially when they needed her firepower with Johannes having a last minute injury Here are her highlights. Special attention to the last 2 plays that put the...

the-boneyard.com

Agreed, even if Gabby was just a little high at #2, the far more "questionable" rankings would be by those that ignored her after her ACL. This is more evidence of ASGR being correct than wrong IMO.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Looking at the HG rankings for the 2014 class, today's ranking would be something like:

#1 A. Wilson
#3 A. Atkins
#5 K. Mitchell
#23 A. Stevens
#33 K. Nurse
#14 G. Williams
#2 B. Turner
#34 M. Hines-Allen
#24 V. Vivians
#4 J. Canada

 

[GEAinAustin]

ESPN hasn't updated their rankings in 7 months.

 

[Kaizen]

Looking at the HG rankings for the 2014 class, today's ranking would be something like:

#1 A. Wilson
#3 A. Atkins
#5 K. Mitchell
#23 A. Stevens
#33 K. Nurse
#14 G. Williams
#2 B. Turner
#34 M. Hines-Allen
#24 V. Vivians
#4 J. Canada

2014 HoopGurlz Recruiting Rankings - espnW 100 - ESPN

Get the inside scoop on the top ranked high school girls' basketball players. In-depth player briefings, film and more on ESPNHS.com.

www.espn.com

 

[cancontent]

National Rankings for Class of 2023 | Hoopseenw

hoopseenw.com

UConn's Recruits:
#8) KK Arnold
#11) Ashlynn Shade
#16) Quadence Samuels

I believe HoopSeenW purchased ASGR and rebranded? Not precisely sure.

The '23 rankings are pretty consistent with other services.

They put 6'3" guard-forward Canadian Cassandre Prosper at #1. From what I've seen, she's certainly one of the most intriguing prospects in this class, but I really think Mikayla Williams and Juju Watkins will have bigger impacts in college.

Perhaps more newsworthy is the top 10 rankings they released for the c/o 2024: National Rankings for Class of 2024 | Hoopseenw

Shaq's daughter, Me'Arah O'Neal, is #2 after a breakout summer. Also listed 6'3", I actually like what I've seen of her game better than Prosper, as she seems to have really good outside shooting ability.

Then at #8 is a player I had never heard of out of Billings, Montana: 6'2" forward Breanna Williams. On video she looks like a fluid and very versatile power forward, maybe like Sam Brunelle.

c/o 2025 top 10: National Rankings for Class of 2025 | Hoopseenw

I'm surprised Prosper is at #1, however this could be influenced by ASGR's relationship with the BecomeOne AAU program she played with this summer. ASGR has posted a fair bit of stuff about this club on their Twitter feeds in the past for other players.

Maybe it's me, but I get the vibe most of these rankings are influenced by relationships in the background more than anything nowadays.

 

[Alydar]

Agreed, even if Gabby was just a little high at #2, the far more "questionable" rankings would be by those that ignored her after her ACL. This is more evidence of ASGR being correct than wrong IMO.

But at the time ASGR's No 2 was an outlier. And she only rose to No 14 that year on ESPN after signing with UConn. Lot's of contemporanious opinions are considered "questionable" at the time and later prove to be fully justified. I was always impressed with Williams' game.

 

[HopJim]

National Rankings for Class of 2023 | Hoopseenw

hoopseenw.com

UConn's Recruits:
#8) KK Arnold
#11) Ashlynn Shade
#16) Quadence Samuels

I believe HoopSeenW purchased ASGR and rebranded? Not precisely sure.

The '23 rankings are pretty consistent with other services.

They put 6'3" guard-forward Canadian Cassandre Prosper at #1. From what I've seen, she's certainly one of the most intriguing prospects in this class, but I really think Mikayla Williams and Juju Watkins will have bigger impacts in college.

Perhaps more newsworthy is the top 10 rankings they released for the c/o 2024: National Rankings for Class of 2024 | Hoopseenw

Shaq's daughter, Me'Arah O'Neal, is #2 after a breakout summer. Also listed 6'3", I actually like what I've seen of her game better than Prosper, as she seems to have really good outside shooting ability.

Then at #8 is a player I had never heard of out of Billings, Montana: 6'2" forward Breanna Williams. On video she looks like a fluid and very versatile power forward, maybe like Sam Brunelle.

c/o 2025 top 10: National Rankings for Class of 2025 | Hoopseenw

Thanks for your assessments. More than received from other sources.

 

[oldhusky]

But at the time ASGR's No 2 was an outlier. And she only rose to No 14 that year on ESPN after signing with UConn. Lot's of contemporanious opinions are considered "questionable" at the time and later prove to be fully justified. I was always impressed with Williams' game.

Yes ASGR's #2 rating was an outlier. Your example of Gabby being largely ignored because of her injury is a good one, and the more I think about it, a similar thing happened to Caroline, she was in the 30's kind of out of sight out of mind to a certain extent because of her ACL. Then when she was back in action and after a Uconn signing she moved up quickly.

It appears that high school players that miss significant time due to injury drop off the radar some, probably more than they should, and at that point might be underrated. The evidence of the Uconn bump is also pretty clear, that could be from Uconn just showing interest in a player, or when we get a signing out of nowhere like with Q this year. She has shot up the ratings after her announcement. I'm sure that also happens to a lessor degree with the other top programs as well.

Sometimes it is hard to tell who is leading and who is following. Do the top programs pursue players because of their rankings by various rating services, or is it more the rating services adjusting their ranks based on who the top programs are pursuing? In ASGR's case, they were an outlier with Gabby and willing to be different from the consensus. It appears the same may be true this year with Prosper because she is Canadian, and not seen head to head in AAU competitions.

I think there is a disconnect with foreign players. Aaliyah and Nika didn't get "fair value" consideration either. I think the rating services should do one of two things, either define yourself as a US rating service that doesn't include foreign players at all, or attempt to do a realistic comparison with the information you do have, even if that doesn't include viewing a player in person against AAU competition.

Should you not include say Joyce or El Alfy in the ratings at all? maybe, but worse is admitting that there is enough hype that you have to put them somewhere, and then punishing their rating because you have not seen them in person, or because they suffered an injury that took them off the radar.

Potentially El Alfy might deserve to best the best big in the 2024 class and maybe Joyce as the overall #1. Would most of the rating services rank them there even if they thought they deserved it? I have my doubts.

 

[cancontent]

Yes ASGR's #2 rating was an outlier. Your example of Gabby being largely ignored because of her injury is a good one, and the more I think about it, a similar thing happened to Caroline, she was in the 30's kind of out of sight out of mind to a certain extent because of her ACL. Then when she was back in action and after a Uconn signing she moved up quickly.

It appears that high school players that miss significant time due to injury drop off the radar some, probably more than they should, and at that point might be underrated. The evidence of the Uconn bump is also pretty clear, that could be from Uconn just showing interest in a player, or when we get a signing out of nowhere like with Q this year. She has shot up the ratings after her announcement. I'm sure that also happens to a lessor degree with the other top programs as well.

Sometimes it is hard to tell who is leading and who is following. Do the top programs pursue players because of their rankings by various rating services, or is it more the rating services adjusting their ranks based on who the top programs are pursuing? In ASGR's case, they were an outlier with Gabby and willing to be different from the consensus. It appears the same may be true this year with Prosper because she is Canadian, and not seen head to head in AAU competitions.

I think there is a disconnect with foreign players. Aaliyah and Nika didn't get "fair value" consideration either. I think the rating services should do one of two things, either define yourself as a US rating service that doesn't include foreign players at all, or attempt to do a realistic comparison with the information you do have, even if that doesn't include viewing a player in person against AAU competition.

Should you not include say Joyce or El Alfy in the ratings at all? maybe, but worse is admitting that there is enough hype that you have to put them somewhere, and then punishing their rating because you have not seen them in person, or because they suffered an injury that took them off the radar.

Potentially El Alfy might deserve to best the best big in the 2024 class and maybe Joyce as the overall #1. Would most of the rating services rank them there even if they thought they deserved it? I have my doubts.

1) I think it's more of the latter than the former.

2) I think the term "foreign" players needs to be clarified, because it's different for Canadian players than those overseas or in South America. For Canadians' ranking services have always had an opportunity to see players. The challenge was visibility for a few reasons:

a) Prior to the emergence of Kia Nurse Elite (EYBL) and BecomeOne (UAA), Canadian players either played with their respective provincial team and attended US events in the summer. These teams were at the mercy of tournament schedulers and didn't get great match ups, or visibility. Unless there was a "star" on the program that they may have heard about through FIBA competitions, rankers weren't looking for these teams as they were more focused on EYBL or better known US teams.

b) Another challenge was that most of these players would only compete during the summer, making visibility limited in comparison to American players. This changed when Crestwood created their program and put US tournaments on their schedules to get more exposure for their players including Aaliyah. Now with Canadian teams competing in EYBL and Under Armor leagues, players are getting in front of these services more often.

c) The emergence of prep school programs have also helped with exposure. This wasn't available to players like Kia Nurse, Shay Colley. With a league like OSBA making it possible to watch games via YouTube and the teams ability to compete in the US during the school year, rankers have an easier time seeing Canadians regularly.

 

[cancontent]

A follow up to my previous post.

Just saw this on Twitter. Events like these are tricky for Canadian teams to fit into their schedules, not to mention afford to attend. However, if they can the Premier Basketball group (HoopGurlz) would have ample opportunity to analyze their skills.

 

[EricLA]

That's a really terrific class. I think Arnold and Shade should be a tiny bit higher, but that's just me. BTW ASGR originally had Arnold #7, Shade #9, and Samuels #42, so that's quite a jump for Qadence. (I had to confirm the spelling of her name - I always want to put a "u" after "q". But Quadence is wrong)....

A lot of the services have not updated recently (Prospects Nation, Blue Star, Prep Girls hoops, etc). but Quadence is trending in the right direction. Blue star and HG both have her at 32 and 35 respectively, but the 3 of them composite as follows:

• 9.0 - Arnold
• 13.4 - Shade
• 27.7- Samuels

I think both Arnold and Shade are top 10 and Samuels is top 20, but no matter how you slice it, a terrific class! Going to totally enjoy the newbies we have this year, and looking forward to how these young ladies do their senior seasons of high school!

 

[Zarathustra]

Yes ASGR's #2 rating was an outlier. Your example of Gabby being largely ignored because of her injury is a good one, and the more I think about it, a similar thing happened to Caroline, she was in the 30's kind of out of sight out of mind to a certain extent because of her ACL. Then when she was back in action and after a Uconn signing she moved up quickly.

It appears that high school players that miss significant time due to injury drop off the radar some, probably more than they should, and at that point might be underrated. The evidence of the Uconn bump is also pretty clear, that could be from Uconn just showing interest in a player, or when we get a signing out of nowhere like with Q this year. She has shot up the ratings after her announcement. I'm sure that also happens to a lessor degree with the other top programs as well.

Sometimes it is hard to tell who is leading and who is following. Do the top programs pursue players because of their rankings by various rating services, or is it more the rating services adjusting their ranks based on who the top programs are pursuing? In ASGR's case, they were an outlier with Gabby and willing to be different from the consensus. It appears the same may be true this year with Prosper because she is Canadian, and not seen head to head in AAU competitions.

I think there is a disconnect with foreign players. Aaliyah and Nika didn't get "fair value" consideration either. I think the rating services should do one of two things, either define yourself as a US rating service that doesn't include foreign players at all, or attempt to do a realistic comparison with the information you do have, even if that doesn't include viewing a player in person against AAU competition.

Should you not include say Joyce or El Alfy in the ratings at all? maybe, but worse is admitting that there is enough hype that you have to put them somewhere, and then punishing their rating because you have not seen them in person, or because they suffered an injury that took them off the radar.

Potentially El Alfy might deserve to best the best big in the 2024 class and maybe Joyce as the overall #1. Would most of the rating services rank them there even if they thought they deserved it? I have my doubts.

Just in case she is reading this,, we do know that Juste Jocyte is 6'2" ( 188 cm ) on the Lithuanian
FIBA rosters. I'll try to wish her Happy Birthday come November 19, 2022 . She was born in 2005.
For completeness, Juste plays for Lyon Asvel in the Ligue Feminine de Basketball and spends
time in its "youth academy" ( does anyone know it that is the academic component ?) Go UCONN,
Juste!!

 

[BobbyJ]

That's a really terrific class. I think Arnold and Shade should be a tiny bit higher, but that's just me. BTW ASGR originally had Arnold #7, Shade #9, and Samuels #42, so that's quite a jump for Qadence. (I had to confirm the spelling of her name - I always want to put a "u" after "q". But Quadence is wrong)....

A lot of the services have not updated recently (Prospects Nation, Blue Star, Prep Girls hoops, etc). but Quadence is trending in the right direction. Blue star and HG both have her at 32 and 35 respectively, but the 3 of them composite as follows:

• 9.0 - Arnold
• 13.4 - Shade
• 27.7- Samuels

I think both Arnold and Shade are top 10 and Samuels is top 20, but no matter how you slice it, a terrific class! Going to totally enjoy the newbies we have this year, and looking forward to how these young ladies do their senior seasons of high school!

I agree with you but it really doesn't matter how the gurus mix their apples and oranges. As long as UConn has 4 kids who can run the court with her, in college Arnold will be the best PG to come out of the 2023 class.

 

[rvwsleep]

How is Vasconcelos ranked #12 ?
She hardly played in the most recent FIBA competition. I believe she is going to play her senior year at Montverde Academy.

Letycia Miranda Vasconcelos - Player Profile - FIBA.basketball

The official website of FIBA, the International Basketball Federation, and the governing body of Basketball. FIBA organises the most famous and prestigious international basketball competitions including the FIBA Basketball World Cup, the FIBA World Championship for Women and the FIBA 3x3 World...

www.fiba.basketball

 

[BobbyJ]

How is Vasconcelos ranked #12 ?
She hardly played in the most recent FIBA competition. I believe she is going to play her senior year at Montverde Academy.

Letycia Miranda Vasconcelos - Player Profile - FIBA.basketball

The official website of FIBA, the International Basketball Federation, and the governing body of Basketball. FIBA organises the most famous and prestigious international basketball competitions including the FIBA Basketball World Cup, the FIBA World Championship for Women and the FIBA 3x3 World...

www.fiba.basketball

Alcohol and a dartboard must have been involved in the rating process.

 

[TCC Kid]

National Rankings for Class of 2023 | Hoopseenw

hoopseenw.com

UConn's Recruits:
#8) KK Arnold
#11) Ashlynn Shade
#16) Quadence Samuels

I believe HoopSeenW purchased ASGR and rebranded? Not precisely sure.

The '23 rankings are pretty consistent with other services.

They put 6'3" guard-forward Canadian Cassandre Prosper at #1. From what I've seen, she's certainly one of the most intriguing prospects in this class, but I really think Mikayla Williams and Juju Watkins will have bigger impacts in college.

Perhaps more newsworthy is the top 10 rankings they released for the c/o 2024: National Rankings for Class of 2024 | Hoopseenw

Shaq's daughter, Me'Arah O'Neal, is #2 after a breakout summer. Also listed 6'3", I actually like what I've seen of her game better than Prosper, as she seems to have really good outside shooting ability.

Then at #8 is a player I had never heard of out of Billings, Montana: 6'2" forward Breanna Williams. On video she looks like a fluid and very versatile power forward, maybe like Sam Brunelle.

c/o 2025 top 10: National Rankings for Class of 2025 | Hoopseenw

National Rankings for Class of 2023 | Hoopseenw

hoopseenw.com

UConn's Recruits:
#8) KK Arnold
#11) Ashlynn Shade
#16) Quadence Samuels

I believe HoopSeenW purchased ASGR and rebranded? Not precisely sure.

The '23 rankings are pretty consistent with other services.

They put 6'3" guard-forward Canadian Cassandre Prosper at #1. From what I've seen, she's certainly one of the most intriguing prospects in this class, but I really think Mikayla Williams and Juju Watkins will have bigger impacts in college.

Perhaps more newsworthy is the top 10 rankings they released for the c/o 2024: National Rankings for Class of 2024 | Hoopseenw

Shaq's daughter, Me'Arah O'Neal, is #2 after a breakout summer. Also listed 6'3", I actually like what I've seen of her game better than Prosper, as she seems to have really good outside shooting ability.

Then at #8 is a player I had never heard of out of Billings, Montana: 6'2" forward Breanna Williams. On video she looks like a fluid and very versatile power forward, maybe like Sam Brunelle.

c/o 2025 top 10: National Rankings for Class of 2025 | Hoopseenw

Geno has done WELL with Canadian players, Prosper should be, and may be, getting a Geno look. Shoe-ie, an American Canadian educated, played post did us up proud.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Then at #8 is a player I had never heard of out of Billings, Montana: 6'2" forward Breanna Williams.

Wow, a Top 10 ranked player from Montana is definitely out of the ordinary.

Olivia Anderson from Ellensburg, WA dropped off the radar for Hoopgurlz. This ranking has her @ #26 for '23. Interesting.