Here's the thing about UCLA's ten national championships | The Boneyard

Here's the thing about UCLA's ten national championships

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The won three with Lew Alcinder later KAJ. They also won three with Bill Walton. Both of those players would be one and dones today.

They basically have six national championships for what would translate into two this century.

So I'm figuring it's really more like six.
 
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Your post made me think of this tweet:

Alex Kennedy @AlexKennedyNBA · 23h ago
Shaq averaged 27.6 points, 14.7 rebounds and 5 blocks during his sophomore season at LSU and returned to school. NCAA was different then.

Didn't the NBA have a rule where you needed to have been in college for at least 3 years at the time? I know something changed that brought us to the one and done.
 
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The won three with Lou Alcinder later KAJ. They also won three with Bill Walton. Both of those players would be one and dones today.

They basically have six national championships for what would translate into two this century.

So I'm figuring it's really more like six.
I disagree ,everyone was playing by the same rules.
So every team had 3 or 4 year players. Freshman were not eligible part of the 1960's . I don't like it when opponents try to diminish our accomplishments.
We should be the last to diminish someone else's.
 

nelsonmuntz

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I disagree ,everyone was playing by the same rules.
So every team had 3 or 4 year players. Freshman were not eligible part of the 1960's . I don't like it when opponents try to diminish our accomplishments.
We should be the last to diminish someone else's.

There were a lot of differences back then beyond just KAJ and Walton wouldn't have stayed 4 years. UCLA was playing teams like Long Beach State in the Final 8 because the tournament was regionalized. There were only 24 or 26 teams back then. I don't know how many titles UCLA would have won if they had the same teams in the modern format, but it would not have been 10.
 
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college basketball is a lot different these days, any title won prior to the 70's means very little to me, all of those kentucky, kansas, UNC and ucla titles won in the 50's and 60's had a very small number of teams in the tourny, I heard something like 16 total teams, I may be wrong on the number, but if you want to hang your hat on that, whatever. We won 4 in the modern era, to me that's more significant than anything that any school has done, and with two different coaches, try that dook.
 

nelsonmuntz

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Top 10 teams were skipping the NCAA Tournament into the late 60's to go to the NIT instead. I believe #8 Marquette was the last one to do it in 1970. New York had better media exposure and prior to the mid-60's, Segregation in the south was a problem for some teams.

It was just a different sport prior to the tournament expansion in 1976.
 
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Another driveby post by Serrano. I think everyone gets he is talking about Wooden. But nice gotcha.

That wasn't a driveby. If I was gonna do a driveby I'd mention what a you are. But I'm in far too good of a mood to do that today.
 
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There were a lot of differences back then beyond just KAJ and Walton wouldn't have stayed 4 years. UCLA was playing teams like Long Beach State in the Final 8 because the tournament was regionalized. There were only 24 or 26 teams back then. I don't know how many titles UCLA would have won if they had the same teams in the modern format, but it would not have been 10.

How on earth would you know how many titles they would have won? The modern tourney set-up is more difficult, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have won it anyhow. If you ever saw his teams play you wouldn't be so quick to make that judgement. They were overwhelmingly dominant year after year, with Alcindor, with Walton, before and in-between. Do not try to diminish that which you cannot comprehend. Wooden was clearly the greatest college basketball coach of all time (it's 50 years later and the Flex offense, which is basically the UCLA offense, is still being run throughout the country) and that winning streak, while almost unfathomable in modern times, is still the greatest accomplishment ever.
 

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Your post made me think of this tweet:

Alex Kennedy @AlexKennedyNBA · 23h ago
Shaq averaged 27.6 points, 14.7 rebounds and 5 blocks during his sophomore season at LSU and returned to school. NCAA was different then.

Who did Shaq lose to in his final college game?

I just can't seem to remember. Anyone want to help me out?
 
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Who did Shaq lose to in his final college game?

I just can't seem to remember. Anyone want to help me out?

I remember the block by Burell on Shaq, awesome game.
 
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How on earth would you know how many titles they would have won? The modern tourney set-up is more difficult, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have won it anyhow. If you ever saw his teams play you wouldn't be so quick to make that judgement. They were overwhelmingly dominant year after year, with Alcindor, with Walton, before and in-between. Do not try to diminish that which you cannot comprehend. Wooden was clearly the greatest college basketball coach of all time (it's 50 years later and the Flex offense, which is basically the UCLA offense, is still being run throughout the country) and that winning streak, while almost unfathomable in modern times, is still the greatest accomplishment ever.

I don't know. I was just speculating.

And I didn't do it quickly, there are a number of things that come into play when judging the UCLA streak. For example, there were no at large bids, so he field was weakened. And there's the fact a UCLA booster paid players and gave them free apartments and other gifts during the Wooden run. That would be almost impossible in today's digital age.

I am merely saying that UCLA had advantages that are no longer available and this should be considered when examining their accomplishments. The largest of which is having the best player in college for three years, something that is not possible in the 21st century.
 
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nelsonmuntz

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How on earth would you know how many titles they would have won? The modern tourney set-up is more difficult, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have won it anyhow. If you ever saw his teams play you wouldn't be so quick to make that judgement. They were overwhelmingly dominant year after year, with Alcindor, with Walton, before and in-between. Do not try to diminish that which you cannot comprehend. Wooden was clearly the greatest college basketball coach of all time (it's 50 years later and the Flex offense, which is basically the UCLA offense, is still being run throughout the country) and that winning streak, while almost unfathomable in modern times, is still the greatest accomplishment ever.

How do you know they would have won 10 if they had to play in the modern format?

Don't diminish the modern accomplishments by comparing them to a team that played in a format that gave Wooden a big unnatural advantage.
 
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Top 10 teams were skipping the NCAA Tournament into the late 60's to go to the NIT instead. I believe #8 Marquette was the last one to do it in 1970. New York had better media exposure and prior to the mid-60's, Segregation in the south was a problem for some teams.

It was just a different sport prior to the tournament expansion in 1976.
I agree with your last point: the tournament was quite different after the mid-to-late 1970s, but I think that the whole "NIT was better than the NCAAs" isn't quite accurate, at least by the time UCLA was running off wins. You didn't say that, I know, but some have. There were rarely even Top 10 schools opting out. Most were just not invited, as you'll see below.

By the first years of the 1960s, the NIT had a certain look: generally small schools, mostly catholic, often eastern or midwestern independents, with a school or two from further out. You'll notice in the list below many top 10 teams just avoided by the NIT all together! They are in italics.

Rarely, by the 1960s, was a team considered one of the best couple teams in the NIT rather than in the NCAAs. 1960, in fact, is the last year where more than one top 10 school went to the NCAA. And look at a year like 1965 or so, when a number of Top Programs were also the types of programs the NIT invited, and that, perhaps, in 1960 did not go to the NCAA (Bradley). Yet, in 1965, both St. Joe’s and PC went to the NCAAs over the NIT. Villanova wasn’t invited because they had two other northern independents rated higher than them, not because they thought the NIT was better. Similar in 1964. Basically, by 1964, if you were invited to the NCAA and the NIT, you went to the NCAA.

One notable exception: in 1970, Marquette didn’t like its draw, so it went to the NIT rather than the NCAAs…which made the NCAA disallow that going forward.

To back up my claim:

1960 Final AP Top 20

Team, followed by post season

1 Cincinnati – Final Four
2 California – Runner Up
3 Ohio State – Runner Up
4 Bradley (IL) – NIT Champ
5 West Virginia – NCAA S16
6 Utah – NCAA S16
7 Indiana – (Not Invited Anywhere)
8 Utah State – NIT Final Four
9 St. Bonaventure (NY) – NIT Final Four

10 Miami (FL) – NCAAs
11Auburn – (Not Invited Anywhere)
12 NYU – Final Four
13 Georgia Tech – E8
14 Providence (RI) – NIT Runner Up
15 Saint Louis – NIT
16 Holy Cross (MA) – NIT
17 Villanova – NIT

18 Duke – NCAA E8
19 Wake Forest (Not Invited Anywhere)
20 St. John's (NY) – NIT

1961 Final AP Top 10

(Drops to Top 10 for a while…not me trying to fudge numbers)

1 Ohio State – Runner Up
2 Cincinnati – National Champ
3 St. Bonaventure (NY) – NCAA S16
4 Kansas State – NCAA E8
5 North Carolina – (Not Invited Anywhere)
6 Bradley (IL) – (Not Invited Anywhere)

7 USC – NCAA S16
8 Iowa – (Not Invited Anywhere)
9 West Virginia – (Not Invited Anywhere)
10 Duke – (Not Invited Anywhere)


1962 Final AP Top 10

1 Ohio State – Runner Up
2 Cincinnati – National Champ
3 Kentucky – NCAA E8
4 Mississippi State – (Not Invited Anywhere)
5 Bradley (IL) – NIT
6 Kansas State – (Not Invited Anywhere)
7 Utah – (Not Invited Anywhere)

8 Bowling Green (OH) – NCAAs
9 Colorado – NCAA E8
10 Duke – (Not Invited Anywhere)

1963 Final AP Top 10

1 Cincinnati – Runner Up
2 Duke – Final Four
3 Loyola Chicago – National Champ
4 Arizona State – NCAA E8
5 Wichita State - NIT
6 Mississippi State – NCAAs
7 Ohio State – (Not Invited Anywhere)
8 Illinois – NCAA E8
9 NYU – NCAAs
10 Colorado – NCAA E8

1964 Final AP Top 10

1 UCLA – National Champ
2 Michigan – Final Four
3 Duke – Runner Up
4 Kentucky – NCAA S16
5 Wichita State – NCAA E8
6 Oregon State – NCAAs
7 Villanova – NCAA S16
8 Loyola Chicago – NCAA S16
9 DePaul – NIT
10 Davidson – (Not Invited Anywhere)

1965 Final AP Top 10

1 Michigan – Runner Up
2 UCLA – National Champ
3 Saint Joseph's – NCAA S16
4 Providence – NCAA E8
5 Vanderbilt – NCAA E8
6 Davidson – (Not Invited Anywhere)
7 Minnesota – (Not Invited Anywhere)

8 Villanova - NIT
9 BYU – NCAA S16
10 Duke – (Not Invited Anywhere)
 
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How do you know they would have won 10 if they had to play in the modern format?

Don't diminish the modern accomplishments by comparing them to a team that played in a format that gave Wooden a big unnatural advantage.

They won 10 tittles in a row, that's fact not speculation, including 88 games in a row. I don't care who they were playing, they won 88 games in a row. Speculating on what might have happened if this or if that is interesting, but it does not diminish the facts. They won what they won, the burden of proof to diminish their accomplishment lies with you.
 
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The bracket listings are great. UCLA basically until the last 2 tourneys had bye the first round and only had to win 4 games, still the greatest of their era. They remind me of Geno's teams of today getting the best players year in and out.
 

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They won 10 tittles in a row, that's fact not speculation, including 88 games in a row. I don't care who they were playing, they won 88 games in a row. Speculating on what might have happened if this or if that is interesting, but it does not diminish the facts. They won what they won, the burden of proof to diminish their accomplishment lies with you.

No it isn't.

They didn't play against at-large teams or in a 64 team tournament. They played Utah State and Santa Clara in the Final 8 about half those years. Those are facts. They didn't win 4 or 5 games each tournament against quality opponents to win their titles. That is also a fact. UCLA had some great players and great teams and Wooden was a great coach. They wouldn't have won 10 titles even at that time if the NCAA used the modern format.

Either the accomplishment of winning a championship in 1971 was the same as winning one in 2014 or it wasn't. I think it wasn't. You think it was. I have facts on my side. Your argument is "na na na na na"
 
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