OT: GOAT QB - its not Brady.

[upstater]

I'm a die hard raiders fans, the niners are our rival. I'm telling you Joe Montana is the GOAT, perfection he was, we live in a day where we are prisoner of the moment. Correct me if I am wrong but did Tom Brady only have 1 total pass td in his 1st 3 sbs? Lmao that's laughable.
Joe Montana will always be the greatest, but that baad man Aaron Rodgers is going to make it interesting.

Quite frankly, your facts are wrong. I mean, you're not even close. You are way way way way off.

As in, just for example, his performance in his second Super Bowl was the 3rd greatest performance in Super Bowl history at the time.

32 completions, 354 yards, 3 TDs.

One of the frequently trotted out opinions on this subject is that Brady was just a game manager early in his career. That might have been true for his first year (though that too is debatable, given the team's record with the previous stud QB, who he replaced). But after that Brady was slinging the ball. And this was before the rules changes for offense. You frequently hear people talk about the Patriots great D and the great kicker Adam Vinatieri that won them those early Super Bowls. The D was great. Vinatieri was great. But not in the latter 2 Super Bowls. Vinatieri missed two chip shots. The D gave up 29 points in 31 minutes, and Brady had to lead the team to a 4th quarter comeback victory.

Again, you don't have your facts correct, so it's hard to take you seriously.

 

[upstater]

I'm seeing a lot of arguments for Peyton Manning in there.

Here's some food for thought for you:

A Brady and Manning comparison as of end of 2014 season.

• Brady in a dome: 67.4%, 8.64 YPA, 6.9 TD%, 2.62% INT, 106.42 rating
• Manning in a dome: 66.16%, 7.8 YPA, 6.1% TD, 2.4% INT, 99.72 rating

Brady versus Manning overall:

• Brady: 63.5% completions, 7.4 YPA, 5.5% TDs, 2.0% INTs, 96.1 rating
• Manning: 65.5% completions, 7.7 YPA, 5.9% TDs, 2.6% INTs, 97.7 rating

Brady versus Manning % of games outdoors:

• Brady: 92% of his games outdoors (185 of 202)
• Manning: 49% of his games outdoors (122 of 248)

 

[ncteacher]

I no longer watch the NFL, and no longer involve myself in GOAT conversations. I do however, take exception in people who still hold to the “Brady cheated” narrative. Anyone who has spent any time researching this topic will discover that it is almost universally accepted that there was NO deflation. The only ones who still believe that Brady or the Patriots cheated are just predisposed to dislike this team, which is understandable as they win, and winners are seldom revered unless it is YOUR winners. The issue became more about the NFL wanting to prove they had complete control over discipline regardless of the facts. This was an argument that was reinforced by the federal justices who decided the case. However, remember that both judges who sided with the Patriots wrote about the poor factual basis of proof provided by the NFL, believing there was no deflation. The two who ultimately decided the case never discussed facts, only that the CBA (collective bargaining agreement) did indeed give the commissioner this authority. Therefore, I do completely believe that they didn't cheat during Deflategate, of which there is PLENTY of documentation to prove this. For anyone interested to read up on the subject here is some info, my favorite being from the Texas lawyer (who is a Texan fan, not a Patriot fan),

The best argument for giving the Patriots draft picks back

stradleylaw.com


I was listening to middle school students saying Tom Brady cheated in class the other day. I asked them how they knew. They said they heard it on ESPN. When I asked, “But how do you know that the information was accurate?” They replied, “Da, it was on ESPN.” I expect this blind trust from 12 year olds - not adults.

"It is utterly convincing. Leonard told me that if an M.I.T. undergraduate made the kinds of mistakes that Exponent made, “I would force them to repeat the experiment and correct the analysis.” Based on his study of the data, Leonard now says: “I am convinced that no deflation occurred and that the Patriots are innocent. It never happened.”


For anyone who didn’t follow the issue closely here are a few articles to catch you up.

https://www.drmorgentaler.com/commentaries/deflategate-scandal


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwxXsEltyas&index=284&list=LLfb7YtDoVx0USKMxdGLyEkw


https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/nfl-deflated-the-truth--and-owes-the-court-a-correction/2016/03/08/02bcae4e-e540-11e5-b0fd-073d5930a7b7_story.html?utm_term=.dcb5d096e5b6


https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/23/sports/football/nfl-ignores-ball-deflation-science-at-new-england-patriots-expense.html

even a 7th grader knows:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/03/09/seventh-grader-with-last-name-goodell-odds-with-deflategate-findings/Ar1e8ZfjxjukirsXKVrH0H/story.html


And, if you want to see how your team has cheated here is a popular site: BTW: number one is Denver, two is the Jets. Carolina is 15th and New England is 17th!

http://yourteamcheats.com/

But, winners are no longer revered in this country. Participation trophies for all!!!! BTW: Minnesota and Carolina were also caught tampering with footballs after specifically told not to - their punishment - a verbal warning.(Ball tampering involving Panthers, Vikings produced a far different reaction)

Also, the Steelers played with deflated footballs and received no punishment. (https://nypost.com/2016/12/11/giants-allege-steelers-balls-were-deflated-in-stunning-scandal-return/)

The Patriots issue is that they constantly win something the NFL works very diligently to prevent. (HT: The NFL has an obsession with parity, and it’s failing miserably.

Deflategate. The worst witch hunt ever. No evidence of tampering at all. He served a four game suspension for something he didn't do, the laws of physics did. BUT, it is the new American way - blame others for cheating because they outwork, out hustle, have better natural talents than you. I can't beat you, so you MUST be cheating. Get over it. There have been several great articles with quotes from current players who previously played for other teams, and they all say the same thing, “Nobody outworks the Patriots.”

 

[Windsorlocks]

Tom Brady today became the oldest player to win the NFL's MVP award, the third of his career....

Brady, at 40, oldest ever to win league MVP

 

[mauconnfan]

Maybe Joe should have won a few more playoff games and earned the chance to play in a few more championships. You would think WINNING more is a prerequisite for being the GOAT. Especially when one is playing the most important position in the game.

Winning is the prerequisite for GTOAT (team) of all time or franchise, there are 10 others on the field with any one player. While winning assures a player of Brady's magnitude an edge over nearly anyone it doesn't mean there still isn't an argument to be had and comparisons to be drawn. Again if Marino was given anything like Belichick and the Pats have given TB he may very well be above all, but we will never know that. For now no one can doubt TB being the best QB of all time.

 

[Husky25]

Winning is the prerequisite for GTOAT (team) of all time or franchise, there are 10 others on the field with any one player. While winning assures a player of Brady's magnitude an edge over nearly anyone it doesn't mean there still isn't an argument to be had and comparisons to be drawn. Again if Marino was given anything like Belichick and the Pats have given TB he may very well be above all, but we will never know that. For now no one can doubt TB being the best QB of all time.

Yeah. Don Shula was an awful coach.

 

[mauconnfan]

Yeah. Don Shula was an awful coach.

Did I say that? Little overreacting geez get a grip the game will be on soon enough.

 

[Deepster]

How do you think Brady’s son wished him good luck before he left this morning?

 

[Husky25]

Did I say that? Little overreacting geez get a grip the game will be on soon enough.

No. You said this:

...Again if Marino was given anything like Belichick and the Pats have given TB he may very well be above all...

What exactly was Marino deprived of? The implication is that Marino did it all on his own. Correct, he did not have the greatest coach in NFL history. He had the 2nd greatest (eh...3rd. Joe Gibbs, though his 2nd stint tarnishes his legacy...).

Football is indeed a team game and I for one believe whole heartedly that if you show me a great QB, I show you 5 guys up front who deserve but don't near get enough credit.

 

[Husky25]

How do you think Brady’s son wished him good luck before he left this morning?

Over the phone. Brady spent the night in the team hotel.

JeezusCrise, Private Pyle, you're the only one still talking about this.

Color me unsurprised.

 

[mauconnfan]

No. You said this:


What exactly was Marino deprived of? The implication is that Marino did it all on his own. Correct, he did not have the greatest coach in NFL history. He had the 2nd greatest (eh...3rd. Joe Gibbs, though his 2nd stint tarnishes his legacy...).

Football is indeed a team game and I for one believe whole heartedly that if you show me a great QB, I show you 5 guys up front who deserve but don't near get enough credit.

Don't be so damn defensive of your damn guy. I said TB was the GOAT at QB so I throw in a Marino mention and you get your briefs in a bunch.Shula, Gibbs blah blah blah wow

 

[Husky25]

Don't be so damn defensive of your damn guy. I said TB was the GOAT at QB so I throw in a Marino mention and you get your briefs in a bunch.Shula, Gibbs blah blah blah wow

Make a more apt comparison.

 

[mauconnfan]

Make a more apt comparison.

For you or me? LOL you're whacked if you don't think it has a place, or is winning everything? To you of course.

Anyway done with that good luck today 25

 

[Husky25]

For you or me? LOL you're whacked if you don't think it has a place, or is winning everything? To you of course.

Anyway done with that good luck today 25

TY.

You an Eagles fan today, Mau? Or just hoping greater MSP falls into a sinkhole?

 

[Deepster]

Over the phone. Brady spent the night in the team hotel.

JeezusCrise, Private Pyle, you're the only one still talking about this.

Color me unsurprised.

Well, right. Pats fans aren’t talking about it because it’s creepy and inappropriate and they just want the game to start hoping it goes away like Aaron Hernandez murdering people did. Plenty of other people ARE talking about it though. You know, the ones who don’t have Brady up on an untouchable pedestal.

 

[upstater]

I agree about Marino--he was fantastic. But he was also a hothead (moreso than Brady) and chewed out his guys like no other. He'd get frustrated and lose his cool. Not a great leader. A great passer, and perhaps even better than Brady in terms of pocket presence (i.e. moving around the pocket). Brady is the 2nd best I've ever seen to Marino.

Still, other people threw a prettier ball. Jeff George for instance, and certainly Warren Moon who was probably the best thrower of the football in NFL history.

I have a lot of appreciation for Marino, but he threw a lot of INTs and forced the ball. Don't know if it was his ego or what. His defense wasn't all that bad either--the killer B's!!!

I hear a lot of news heads acknowledge that without Brady this Patriots team wins 8 games, and I think that's right--and almost too generous to the 8 win team. He's got Gronk (when he isn't injured) but not much else. It's amazing. Plug and play, the receivers come and go. Hogan?? Really? Reche Caldwell? Gaffney? Amendola?

 

[ucp990411]

It's Joe Montana

Never threw an interception in a Superbowl.

4 in 9> 5 in 16

Didnt lose to Eli twice

Joe Willie Namath

 

[Husky25]

Well, right. Pats fans aren’t talking about it because it’s creepy and inappropriate and they just want the game to start hoping it goes away like Aaron Hernandez murdering people did. Plenty of other people ARE talking about it though. You know, the ones who don’t have Brady up on an untouchable pedestal.

What do you want to talk about re: Aaron Hernandez?

He did what he did outside the football world, and he was cut Inside the football world. Are the Patriots responsible? Are the Panthers responsible for Rae Carruth?

 

[KemBaller]

I agree about Marino--he was fantastic. But he was also a hothead (moreso than Brady) and chewed out his guys like no other. He'd get frustrated and lose his cool. Not a great leader. A great passer, and perhaps even better than Brady in terms of pocket presence (i.e. moving around the pocket). Brady is the 2nd best I've ever seen to Marino.

Still, other people threw a prettier ball. Jeff George for instance, and certainly Warren Moon who was probably the best thrower of the football in NFL history.

I have a lot of appreciation for Marino, but he threw a lot of INTs and forced the ball. Don't know if it was his ego or what. His defense wasn't all that bad either--the killer B's!!!

I hear a lot of news heads acknowledge that without Brady this Patriots team wins 8 games, and I think that's right--and almost too generous to the 8 win team. He's got Gronk (when he isn't injured) but not much else. It's amazing. Plug and play, the receivers come and go. Hogan?? Really? Reche Caldwell? Gaffney? Amendola?

As far as on field skills go Brady is the best I've ever seen at being able to scan the field and go through his progressions. He's had that even when he was young.

 

[Deepster]

What do you want to talk about re: Aaron Hernandez?

He did what he did outside the football world, and he was cut Inside the football world. Are the Patriots responsible? Are the Panthers responsible for Rae Carruth?

Where did I say I wanted to talk about Aaron Hernandez? I was using him as an example in my point about Brady and his pedophile allegations.

 

[upstater]

Deepster took a wrong turn somewhere and he's having a difficult time finding his way back. Someone else please collect him--I have a game to watch.

 

[Deepster]

Deepster took a wrong turn somewhere and he's having a difficult time finding his way back. Someone else please collect him--I have a game to watch.

Right. Tom Brady jams his tongue in his sons mouth and I took the wrong turn.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Right. Tom Brady jams his tongue in his sons mouth and I took the wrong turn.

This obsession is creepy. And look at your avatar. Christ. Someone call the authorities.

 

[Deepster]

This obsession is creepy. And look at your avatar. Christ. Someone call the authorities.

The only creepy thing here isn’t a grown parent open mouth kissing his son while getting a massage from another dude.

 

[mauconnfan]

TY.

You an Eagles fan today, Mau? Or just hoping greater MSP falls into a sinkhole?

LOL if I had to lean it would be the Eagles. But these missed FGs and EP's are killing my pools I had some nice numbers in my many pools. But now my crazy numbers have a chance. So to really answer the question I need the team to score as required at the end of the game to give me the final score, whichever team that may be.

Fun first half but so strange that the defenses gave up so many huge plays. Think Belichick has the half time adjustment edge we will see.