George Will column - perhaps football days are numbered | The Boneyard

George Will column - perhaps football days are numbered

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I love the game as much as anyone, and played it for many years, but I will not be pushing my kids to play football. It's not like it was when I was younger anymore, where u were a pansie if you didnt want to get out there and lay a good hit on someone. There is now an abundance of scientific data that shows even the smallest of hits to the head at young ages can have a HUGE impact, in terms of lifetime effects. If they ask in high school, I'll have to cross that bridge when I get to it but they will not be playing until then.
 

CL82

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I do think the concussion issue needs to be dealt with, though I have no idea what the resolution might be. That said, it's tough to take a death notice for football seriously when it is coming from an avowed baseball guy.
 
U

UConn9604

I love the game as much as anyone, and played it for many years, but I will not be pushing my kids to play football. It's not like it was when I was younger anymore, where u were a pansie if you didnt want to get out there and lay a good hit on someone. There is now an abundance of scientific data that shows even the smallest of hits to the head at young ages can have a HUGE impact, in terms of lifetime effects. If they ask in high school, I'll have to cross that bridge when I get to it but they will not be playing until then.

Without any scientific data to back this up, I would think that these problems aren't something that would affect the vast majority of us. The most extreme cases (e.g., Junior Seau or Dave Duerson) are almost exclusively longtime NFL players. Most people who play the game (like you or me, for example) won't take anywhere near the number of hits that Seau or Duerson took, and the people hitting them won't be anywhere near as big, strong or fast.

For example, there are about 1.1 million people playing high school football. These usually play about 2-4 years of peewee football and then 4 years in high school.

There are about (32 teams) x (53 players/team) = 1,700 people (or about 0.15% of the number of high school players) playing in the NFL. These usually play 2-4 years of peewee football, 4 years in high school and 2-4 years in college before making the pros. That's about 8-12 years of taking hits before making the NFL.

Seau played 19 more in the NFL and Duerson played another 11. That's a LOT of big-time hits.

I also think that helmet technology will continue to improve, particularly for the NFL.
 
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There's no way gridiron football or rugby football are going to disappear anytime soon. All these injuries and deaths over 100+ years and guess what? The games only became more popular.
 
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Seems there is a trend in play. Lots of the affected players are former defensive type players. I am not really familiar with all of them, but it seems like in the '80s and '90s you would see a lot of "glamour" hits where safeties would lead with their heads. Pads and helmets are meant to provide protection, they are not weapons.

I remember when I was playing, it was a point of pride to see how much paint would be missing from the front of your helmet at the end of the season.
 

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Without any scientific data to back this up, I would think that these problems aren't something that would affect the vast majority of us. The most extreme cases (e.g., Junior Seau or Dave Duerson) are almost exclusively longtime NFL players. Most people who play the game (like you or me, for example) won't take anywhere near the number of hits that Seau or Duerson took, and the people hitting them won't be anywhere near as big, strong or fast.

For example, there are about 1.1 million people playing high school football. These usually play about 2-4 years of peewee football and then 4 years in high school.

There are about (32 teams) x (53 players/team) = 1,700 people (or about 0.15% of the number of high school players) playing in the NFL. These usually play 2-4 years of peewee football, 4 years in high school and 2-4 years in college before making the pros. That's about 8-12 years of taking hits before making the NFL.

Seau played 19 more in the NFL and Duerson played another 11. That's a LOT of big-time hits.

I also think that helmet technology will continue to improve, particularly for the NFL.

Helmet technology is one cause of the problem. Damage comes from the brain striking the inside of the skull during impact. Helmet technology doesn't address that. And similar damage has been found in players that never played in the NFL. The reason findings haven't become more widespread is because research hasn't been done until recently. Having said that, football isn't going anywhere soon as long there is money to be made. But like boxing, I can see the talent pool shrinking over time as more becomes known about the damage the game causes.
 
U

UConn9604

Damage comes from the brain striking the inside of the skull during impact. Helmet technology doesn't address that.

I think helmets could address that by reducing the momentum of the helmet/skull/brain upon a collision. You know when you're taking an exit, and you look to your left side to see those long, accordion-looking things that are usually painted yellow and black, on the dividing line between the highway and the exit? Those are designed to collapse (and slow you down in the process) upon an impact.

If a helmet was equipped with some way to partially collapse an outer shell upon impact but without harming the head, and then resume its original shape (think of an accelerometer attached to a collapsible shell shaped like the roof at Gampel that allowed each of the tiles to break apart and then close together after a brief period of time), that would reduce the momentum of the collision.

Of course, football helmets are designed to protect your head from both hits that you generate, and from hits that you receive. So, if the helmet was in a partially collapsed condition from one of your hits, and then you received a hit from another person, you could be in serious trouble.

Reducing the momentum during collisions is the key, however.
 
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The padding on the inside would have to be set up in some sort of accordion pattern that would return to normal after impact. In my travels I've seen on the back of state trucks a buffer apparatus that collapses like an accordion. Reducing the effects of sudden deceleration is most definitely the key however it's employed.
Football is an institution in this country and there are far too many problem solvers around to let traumatic brain injury, as an epidemic, linger too much longer in the sport. Your never going to eliminate it completely just as your never going to prevent automobile accidents completely. But the problem has been identified and I'm sure there are folks working on the solution as we speak. Thanksgiving without the Cowboys is like Christmas without presents. I shudder at the thought.
 
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He is best known for his journalism in Politics with sophisticated vocabulary and baseball references. Not quite an expert on concussions and football in my opinion which is just like his article, an opinion. So kids stop playing football and turn to soccer because it is safer. Well guess what, girls soccer has by far the second most incidence of concussions out of any other sport. What then when your kid gets a concussion in soccer; maqndate them to cross country, competitive video games?

We can certainly do more to reduce the concussions in football and it starts at the Pop Warner level of teaching good technique. When I was in Pop Warner and I see it now, they teach technique to these young kids for 5-10 minutes a practice and then get right into running plays. They spend more time stretching than they do actually teaching the basics to these kids. Helmet technology will help reduce concussions, but not for a kid who repeatedly tackles with his head down looking for a big hit.

They also need to get better at diagnosing concussions and giving the proper recovery time for them. We talk about how it is tough to keep an NFL player off the field which is right. But this is a football issue, not a NFL specific issue. You have way less than 1% chance to make the NFL, so lets focus on the other 99% in college, HS and Pop Warner who can be controlled in regards to recovery and diagnosis. We focus on the brains of people like Seau whose NFL career alone is probably 3 times longer than the average player plays tackle football in their lifetime.

And finally, lets be honest. Even if nothing changes there are millions of kids looking to use football as a means to get into a college because they are from bad homes, bad cities/schools or simply don't have the money to go to school. Try telling those kids that they should not play football because of concussions when it means an opportunity at a better life. It is alot easier to get a full ride to a FBS or FCS school for football than to get a scholariship to play soccer or baseball just based on the numbers needed to field a team alone.
 
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I coached at the Pop Warner level for several years. We taught technique quite a bit - but I won't disagree with that assessment because I saw a lot of coaching staffs spend very little time on technique and a lot of the kids we got were raw as a result.

I also saw a lot of bad tackling habits as a lot of kid were trying to emulate NFL tackling (shoulder or head lead with no arm wrapping) expecting the force of the blow to knock the runner down - instead of proper form tackling (shoulder lead, arm wrap). We rarely saw concussions though as a result. More often it resulted in the tackler bouncing off the runner as the runner continued down the field.
 
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My town has initiated the NFL related flag football league where my 6 year old will play for the next ?? years. (Much to the anger of the local Pop Warner coaches).


I do not want him to miss the greatest experience of a guys life, high school football, but he will throw on the pads for the first time his freshmen year and I know he won't miss a beat.
 

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Are parents who don't alloy their kids to play football also going to not bring them to fast food restaurants or buy high-sugar/fat foods? Make sure they don't play catcher either.
 
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In the past several years, several hundred thousand helmet impacts and various levels of football, mostly intercollegiate, division 1-A, have been measured and documented for study. Virginia Tech has spearheaded the study. HITS. Helmet Impact Telemetry System. Google it. They're not just doing football, either, they're looking at ice hockey and lacrosse now too.

There is a HUGE database for study right now. What's been found, is that football players, indeed, have a higher incidence and risk of sustaining medically diagnosed concussions, than other sports. When you adjust the data, though, for frequency of contact, types, etc....(i.e. when you manipulate the data to make it comparable across sports, it's actually much more likely to sustain serious single head injury from a fall on the ice, hitting the back of your head, than ina football game. It's also arguable that football players don't tend to suffer concussion injuries at a frequency greater than hockey players, when you adjust for the numbers of players that actually sustain injuries, as compared to the numbers of players that actually play across sports.

Another thing to note, is that Chronic Traumatic Encephelopathy - which is what the NFL cases are about, is not definitively related to multiple concussions, and is very much different from sustaining a concussion, and is most certainly not related to sustaining a single concussion. It's not known what causes it, but it's been clearly identified in now three categories of people and higher incidence than in the general public. Professional football players, professional boxers, and military personnel exposed to blasts. The military has been studying the effects of shell shock, for a lot longer, than the same physiologic condition has been identified in professional athletes in boxing and football.

And that's the thing - CTE - is a physiologic condition, that a person is at risk of developing, if you play pro-football, are a pro-boxer, or are a soldier that has been exposed to significant shelling, your at a significantly higher risk than those that haven't..... but the same neurologic degenrative condition exists in people that have never been in any of those situations, playing footbal at any level, boxing, or a soldier. In two cases, direct blows to the head are related, in the third, there is no direct blow to the head, other than a sound/air pressure wave. Nobody can predict who's going to get CTE, and why. Many pro football players and pro boxers don't get it.

The other thing that has become clear with the data, is that which we all seem to know anyway - the greatest incidence in significant head injury/concussion comes with the smaller/faster players. The highest number of pretty violent head impacts occur among the big gusy at the line of scrimmage, but the highest incidence of medically diagnosed concussion is in the second and third levels of players away from scrimmage.

The most important thing that can be done to prevent concussion, is to teach proper body contact to protect the head in blocking and tackling.

I've advocated for years, that kids shouldn't be put in headgear or pads, playing the game, until high school. The easiest way to teach a kid proper body contact, to protect their head, and not use their gear and helmets as weapons, to hurt either themselves or others, is to have them play full contact with no headgear and no shoulder pads.

My opinion. I'm in the minority.

Football is not going away, what will happen with these lawsuits, is that the NFL ownership club, which is a 32 member club worth multiple billions of dollars, will have to open up those purse strings in a big way, to provide for the future lives of the gladiators, that are not just giving up their brains for their billions, but their knees, hips, shoulders, hearts, livers, kidneys......too.
 
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One other thing that data shows that was not anticipated. The magnitude of a measured head impact, in a player that sustains a concussion, is NOT related or predictive in any way, to the severity of the concussion.

(i.e. the concept that the harder the hit to the head, the worse the concussion? Not supported at all by the data.)
 
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Are parents who don't alloy their kids to play football also going to not bring them to fast food restaurants or buy high-sugar/fat foods? Make sure they don't play catcher either.
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Kind of a ridiculous post, u may want to read up on the data a little bit, It may enlighten you. Carl has referenced one study below, but there are thousands available that relate even a mild concussion at an early age with potential lifelong effects.
 
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My town has initiated the NFL related flag football league where my 6 year old will play for the next ?? years. (Much to the anger of the local Pop Warner coaches).


I do not want him to miss the greatest experience of a guys life, high school football, but he will throw on the pads for the first time his freshmen year and I know he won't miss a
beat.


I think you will find that this trend will grow as time passes. There is too much data being compiled at this point to ignore it.
 
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Kind of a ridiculous post, u may want to read up on the data a little bit, It may enlighten you. Carl has referenced one study below, but there are thousands available that relate even a mild concussion at an early age with potential lifelong effects.

I did? I don't think I did. I didn't reference any study. And I actually wrote that the condition that everybody is talking about CTE (chronic traumatic encephalopathy) is most definitely not related to a single mild concussion at an early age, it's not even definitive that it's related to multiple concussions, as there are plenty, more than plenty of people that sustain multiple concussions, but do not develop the condition. There's nothing out there that says that a single mild concussion early in life can lead to lifelong effects.

If you get a serious internal head injury, as a child, then yes, you can have lifelong effects, but those kinds of things are usually motor vehicle, blow to the head kind of things, not concussions. There's actually very little info out there about concussive symptoms in children.

In fact, statistically speaking, girls are more likely to sustain concussion than boys playing sports. FWIW.
 

CL82

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Without any scientific data to back this up, I would think that these problems aren't something that would affect the vast majority of us. The most extreme cases (e.g., Junior Seau or Dave Duerson) are almost exclusively longtime NFL players. Most people who play the game (like you or me, for example) won't take anywhere near the number of hits that Seau or Duerson took, and the people hitting them won't be anywhere near as big, strong or fast.

For example, there are about 1.1 million people playing high school football. These usually play about 2-4 years of peewee football and then 4 years in high school.

There are about (32 teams) x (53 players/team) = 1,700 people (or about 0.15% of the number of high school players) playing in the NFL. These usually play 2-4 years of peewee football, 4 years in high school and 2-4 years in college before making the pros. That's about 8-12 years of taking hits before making the NFL.

Seau played 19 more in the NFL and Duerson played another 11. That's a LOT of big-time hits.

I also think that helmet technology will continue to improve, particularly for the NFL.

Helmet improvements may be counterproductive and they likely to lead to more violent collisions.
 
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There's no way gridiron football or rugby football are going to disappear anytime soon. All these injuries and deaths over 100+ years and guess what? The games only became more popular.

Has anyone ever done a head injury study comparing FB and Rugby(no pads or headgear)? Rugby, to me, is more grab-ass arm tackling, but no one leads with the head.
 
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I love the game as much as anyone, and played it for many years, but I will not be pushing my kids to play football. It's not like it was when I was younger anymore, where u were a pansie if you didnt want to get out there and lay a good hit on someone. There is now an abundance of scientific data that shows even the smallest of hits to the head at young ages can have a HUGE impact, in terms of lifetime effects. If they ask in high school, I'll have to cross that bridge when I get to it but they will not be playing until then.

I'm with you, I played the game for many years and I love the game but my wife has a PHD in Environmental Safety and Ergonomics, some of the things she tells me about Football scare me to death. My son is 7 weeks old, I feel like I will be pushing him towards soccer....which is also dangerous but far safer than football.

The sad part, or good part for football depending on how you look at it is that there will always be tons of kids from low income neighborhoods willing to suit up and chase the dream. But the pipeline for college talent is going to shrink.
 
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Oh yeah - soccer, the other football.

here's a case of kid that had a cerebral aneurysm after a soccer head injury, lucky his parents got him to the hospital in time. Jun 2012
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22749486

Lucky you don't have a girl LROCK - girls soccer is right behind football in the incidence of concussion.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22287642


This whole thing about concussions, and the danger of football, is a great case in how the media, and sensationalism, extreme cases in the public eye, gets blown out of proportion.

Football players sustain concussions at a much higher rate than other athletes. Concussions, may or may not, be related to neurologic brain degenerative conditions that are present in the general public later in life. THere's plenty of evidence suggesting that the tendency to develop neurologic degenerative conditions later in life is a product of either genetic, or long term environmental reasons (probably both), and that in individuals with those factors, multiple concussions most likely accelerates the development of the condition.

The way to deal with the problem is to identify the ways that by which football players most often sustain concussions, and then take corrective action to prevent it, and that's exactly what is being done - and has been done for several years now at both the intercollegiate and secondary school level, by reserachers, academics, coaches, and competition committes and rules makers.

The pros have lagged behind, and they're going to pay for it, through lawsuits. That's it.
 

huskypantz

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Kind of a ridiculous post, u may want to read up on the data a little bit, It may enlighten you. Carl has referenced one study below, but there are thousands available that relate even a mild concussion at an early age with potential lifelong effects.
Umm, you might want to read up on the data on childhood obesity then. Obesity as a child greatly increases the risk of adult obesity, which greatly increases the risk of cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes, gait dysfunction etc. Not to mention the "other" impacts of obesity on young people - depression, social disorders, social prejudice.

I'm not ignoring the significance of concussions in football. I would strongly advocate the study of improved head protection. I also believe that elimination of football is not the solution. If it was the accepted panacea, there would be no McDonalds, no beer, no cigarettes, no driving over 40 mph.
 
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Umm, you might want to read up on the data on childhood obesity then. Obesity as a child greatly increases the risk of adult obesity, which greatly increases the risk of cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes, gait dysfunction etc. Not to mention the "other" impacts of obesity on young people - depression, social disorders, social prejudice.

I'm not ignoring the significance of concussions in football. I would strongly advocate the study of improved head protection. I also believe that elimination of football is not the solution. If it was the accepted panacea, there would be no McDonalds, no beer, no cigarettes, no driving over 40 mph.

You can have my beer when you rip it from my cold dead fingers!
 
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Umm, you might want to read up on the data on childhood obesity then. Obesity as a child greatly increases the risk of adult obesity, which greatly increases the risk of cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes, gait dysfunction etc. Not to mention the "other" impacts of obesity on young people - depression, social disorders, social prejudice.

I'm not ignoring the significance of concussions in football. I would strongly advocate the

study of improved head protection. I also believe that elimination of football is not the
solution. If it was the accepted panacea, there would be no McDonalds, no beer, no
cigarettes, no driving over 40 mph.

I agree with all of this
 
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