Gary Apple, UConn, and South Carolina

[JavaMan]

Gary Apple and company had some interesting, and passionate, comments following last night’s game regarding South Carolina being ranked #1 and their chances of beating UConn next month.

What if UConn and South Carolina were not scheduled to play this year? Would the voting and rankings still have South Carolina as the undisputed #1, following the traditional “undefeated” voting paradigm?

Would the voting be any different throughout the year if at the conclusion of each season a matrix was published displaying the names of each voter and their choices for each and every week? (hypothetically speaking, of course)

 

[meyers7]

Gary Apple and company had some interesting, and passionate, comments following last night’s game regarding South Carolina being ranked #1 and their chances of beating UConn next month.

What if UConn and South Carolina were not scheduled to play this year? Would the voting and rankings still have South Carolina as the undisputed #1, following the traditional “undefeated” voting paradigm?

Would the voting be any different throughout the year if at the conclusion of each season a matrix was published displaying the names of each voter and their choices for each and every week? (hypothetically speaking, of course)

hmmm interesting take. Makes one wonder what the voters would do???

On another note, it's gonna be kind of unique that the #1 team is going to come into the game as an underdog.

 

[DobbsRover2]

I'm thinking the voting would be the same because the voters have certain views on the criteria for ranking order. However even if they did not have an upcoming game, I would say at this point that UConn chances of losing a game the rest of the season would be much smaller than USCar's chances of winning both of the road games at GA and KY and maybe even messing up against UTenn.

 

[DobbsRover2]

hmmm interesting take. Makes one wonder what the voters would do???

On another note, it's gonna be kind of unique that the #1 team is going to come into the game as an underdog.

I can think of two possibilities in the last twelve years where UConn might well have been the favorite against the #1 team. Most recently was in 2013 when Stanford came here off of a win over Baylor as the #1 and got pasted by 26 points. The other less strong possibility was back in 2003 when UConn was rolling on a 59 game undefeated streak and traveled to also undefeated Duke and won by 12. I believe UConn was a small favorite in that road game and that the only reason Duke was #1 was that they had started at #1 preseason and UConn at #4 (one ranker had them at #18) with the belief that DT and the young Huskies would flop a bit. But by the time the Huskies went to Duke, it was known that they were better than Duke, though I can't remember if they overcame the home court crazy factor to be the betting favorite.

UConn has had other wins over #1 teams, but maybe not as favorites.

 

[meyers7]

I can think of two possibilities in the last twelve years where UConn might well have been the favorite against the #1 team. Most recently was in 2013 when Stanford came here off of a win over Baylor as the #1 and got pasted by 26 points. The other less strong possibility was back in 2003 when UConn was rolling on a 59 game undefeated streak and traveled to also undefeated Duke and won by 12. I believe UConn was a small favorite in that road game and that the only reason Duke was #1 was that they had started at #1 preseason and UConn at #4 (one ranker had them at #18) with the belief that DT and the young Huskies would flop a bit. But by the time the Huskies went to Duke, it was known that they were better than Duke, though I can't remember if they overcame the home court crazy factor to be the betting favorite.

UConn has had other wins over #1 teams, but maybe not as favorites.

I was just thinking more of the SC fans knowing they are underdogs at #1.

 

[JavaMan]

If South Carolina had lost to Duke and now had a comparable record to UConn, which would be ranked #1 and by how much? Hmmm, let me think about that.

 

[EEich]

I don't think it matters much to Geno who is ranked #1 now or even after the SC game.
The #1 ranking does not guarantee the #1 tournament seeding.
All that matters is who is holding the trophy on April 7 in Tampa.

 

[HoopsFan21]

If not for the Feb. 9 matchup, UConn would be #1. The voters would be forced to vote similarly to CFB where the eye test becomes more important because there are so few games and the top teams rarely play each other in the regular season.

 

[DobbsRover2]

The Duke and UConn situation back in 2003 is probably the closest equivalent to this year's situation, though both teams were undefeated in 2003 before UConn knocked off the preseason favorite Devils on Feb. 1. Duke had been 40 points ahead in the polls on Week 12.

In recent times there was a situation in Week 15 of 2011 when many thought that UConn should be ranked ahead of Baylor, with the Bears, Huskies, and Stanford all at 1 loss and Baylor 10 points ahead of UConn in the AP poll. But in that case UConn had beaten Baylor at home and lost to Stanford on the road, and the Huskies had also just beaten then #3 Duke. Baylor's best win had come against ho-hum UTenn, but since the voters had moved Baylor to the top after UConn's loss to Stanford, they weren't going to move them out until a Bears' loss no matter what the sniff test said. Baylor then lost to Texas Tech and UConn was on top by a huge amount in the Week 16 poll.

 

[Aluminny69]

Hypothetically speaking, if South Carolina were to go through their season undefeated ( sans UConn), it would mean they went through the regular season and SEC playoffs undefeated. That should be worth more than UConn going through the AAC undefeated. (Objectively speaking.)

 

[meyers7]

The #1 ranking does not guarantee the #1 tournament seeding.

Huh? Please explain.

 

[meyers7]

Hypothetically speaking, if South Carolina were to go through their season undefeated ( sans UConn), it would mean they went through the regular season and SEC playoffs undefeated. That should be worth more than UConn going through the AAC undefeated. (Objectively speaking.)

But you have to add in the out of conference games.

 

[Frodo]

I'm thinking the voting would be the same because the voters have certain views on the criteria for ranking order. However even if they did not have an upcoming game, I would say at this point that UConn chances of losing a game the rest of the season would be much smaller than USCar's chances of winning both of the road games at GA and KY and maybe even messing up against UTenn.

I would be shocked if Georgia or Kentucky beat SC...on the road or not. In fact, I'll be surprised if either game is closer than 15-20 points. Kentucky, with Thompson out with the broken leg has been left with a very thin bench...the first time they played 4 Kentucky players finished the game with 4 PFs. Georgia just isn't good enough. Tennessee seems to have righted the ship somewhat and seems to be playing better basketball the last few games. Earlier in the year I wouldn't have given them much of a chance, but I think they have a chance to beat SC if they continue to play as well as they have recently.

 

[pinotbear]

Huh? Please explain.

I think this is correct, Meyers. The NCAA seeding committee does its' work independently of the national polls. We've all seen instances where the committee seems to "under-seed" or "over-seed" a team, relative to said team's position in the polls. Now, it would be unlikely for a consensus #1 poll-ranked team not to be the top-seed by the committee, but, it's certainly theoretically possible. This year, if South Carolina didn't play UConn, and both teams won out for the rest of the season, you could've seen this happen - So. Carolina holding on the the top spot in the polls, but the committee seeding UConn #1 overall in the tourney. Unlikely, perhaps, given the SEC reputation, but, possible.

 

[meyers7]

I think this is correct, Meyers. The NCAA seeding committee does its' work independently of the national polls. We've all seen instances where the committee seems to "under-seed" or "over-seed" a team, relative to said team's position in the polls. Now, it would be unlikely for a consensus #1 poll-ranked team not to be the top-seed by the committee, but, it's certainly theoretically possible. This year, if South Carolina didn't play UConn, and both teams won out for the rest of the season, you could've seen this happen - So. Carolina holding on the the top spot in the polls, but the committee seeding UConn #1 overall in the tourney. Unlikely, perhaps, given the SEC reputation, but, possible.

Not so sure he was talking about the overall #1 seed or just a #1 seed. Or if he was talking about being ranked #1 now, or at the time the NCAA puts out the bracket.

Hence, need his explanation.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Hypothetically speaking, if South Carolina were to go through their season undefeated ( sans UConn), it would mean they went through the regular season and SEC playoffs undefeated. That should be worth more than UConn going through the AAC undefeated. (Objectively speaking.)

Fair point, and an acceptable answer if it were mid-March, but it's late January and we're talking about how the votes would go right now if UConn and South Carolina weren't going to play. Right now voters can take the easy way out by maintaining the status quo so as not to cause controversy (something that happens in CFB).

 

[DobbsRover2]

I would be shocked if Georgia or Kentucky beat SC...on the road or not. In fact, I'll be surprised if either game is closer than 15-20 points. Kentucky, with Thompson out with the broken leg has been left with a very thin bench...the first time they played 4 Kentucky players finished the game with 4 PFs. Georgia just isn't good enough. Tennessee seems to have righted the ship somewhat and seems to be playing better basketball the last few games. Earlier in the year I wouldn't have given them much of a chance, but I think they have a chance to beat SC if they continue to play as well as they have recently.

Probably not, but Georgia is at least undefeated at home (against a weak slate), while MS State just lost at home to LSU, so USCar shouldn't be challenged there. The KY match is the other away game that could have some grit, and it's the last regular season game, so maybe the Cats can get things turned around by then. I'm assuming the Gamecocks will win their home games, though there is a remote possibility that UTenn could surprise us.

And note that part of how impressive a conference Tournament win is depends on the teams you play to win it. Last year in the SECT, #2 seed UTenn played #4 seed KY in the final, and UConn got its #2 seed Louisville in the AACT. Which win was more impressive? Hint: the Cardinals finished the season ranked #5, the Wildcats #11.

 

[watanabe]

Can't wait till SC game. This pansy AAC play is getting kinda boring. The only conclusion I'm getting lately is that UConn is good and has a great rhythm on Offense, which completely falls apart when Chong and /or Ekmark are put in to play. Neither one of them gets it yet (Gabby does). Maybe it's good that UConn is basically playing good HS teams right now. Maybe some of the players will start to understand the team synergy before a big game. If the SC game is close, I would not expect that Geno will put Chong or Ekmark into play except for short periods to provide a breather to the key players.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Can't wait till SC game. This pansy AAC play is getting kinda boring. The only conclusion I'm getting lately is that UConn is good and has a great rhythm on Offense, which completely falls apart when Chong and /or Ekmark are put in to play. Neither one of them gets it yet (Gabby does). Maybe it's good that UConn is basically playing good HS teams right now. Maybe some of the players will start to understand the team synergy before a big game. If the SC game is close, I would not expect that Geno will put Chong or Ekmark into play except for short periods to provide a breather to the key players.

Same old, same old from the clueless who don't watch the games. As noted, along with her 4 rebounds there were a lot of "beautiful pass by Chong" comments last night as she picked up 4 more assists on snazzy passes to starters and could have picked up a few more dishes late in the game if the reserves hit more shots. Her defense had also been really solid. And Courtney steadied herself despite some poor and forced passes to at least bang in for 7 points, so the UConn prospered pretty well while both players were in the game.

It does help to watch these games or maybe at least check a box score before continuing the tired old "reserves suck" comments long after their connection to reality has faded away.

 

[pinotbear]

I would add to it, Dobbs, that referring to conference play as "pansy" is insulting in at least two ways. Then there's referring to the opposition as "good HS teams", which is completely inaccurate and insulting. Arrogant, inaccurate, condescending and demeaning to our conference, and then let's pile that approach onto our own players - a freshman with less than 25% of a season's experience, and a developing sophomore. Ay-yi-yi!

 

[DobbsRover2]

I would add to it, Dobbs, that referring to conference play as "pansy" is insulting in at least two ways. Then there's referring to the opposition as "good HS teams", which is completely inaccurate and insulting. Arrogant, inaccurate, condescending and demeaning to our conference, and then let's pile that approach onto our own players - a freshman with less than 25% of a season's experience, and a developing sophomore. Ay-yi-yi!

I know the poster is just trying to get a reaction with his usual tripe, but geesh when the backup PG plays 21 minutes (MoJeff got 18) and the team hits 100, there really isn't much too complain about. Just ask Geno, who's hard pressed at halftime and after games to work up a believable "we really need to get really really better at this" type of statement for public consumption. Sure Saniya has been a "mystery" at times this year, but the ending to this mystery is beginning to look pretty good, and Geno doesn't have her running the floor for 21 minutes because the team "falls apart" when they play. The lead just keeps growing.

Courtney can look a little klutzy and hurried when she first hits the court, but after missing so much time it's understandable that it takes her a while to feel the rhythm. By the end of the game she's looking more and more like she's going to be going gangbusters when she is fully back in shape and has logged more minutes. And there was that beautiful moment in last night's game when KML had a brainfart and threw up a 3pt airball, and the UCF faithful started their airball chant, and Courtney shuts them up by nailing a 3. That's the way for a freshman to pick up her senior teammate, not that KML needed to be picked up a lot last night.

 

[jcoton56]

I was just thinking more of the SC fans knowing they are underdogs at #1.

SC simply has no idea what they are in for. I imagine that they think they know, but you can't imitate Husky ball, which means you can't practice for it. Almost feel bad.

 

[j66kicker]

SC simply has no idea what they are in for. I imagine that they think they know, but you can't imitate Husky ball, which means you can't practice for it. Almost feel bad.

Agree, up to the "almost feel bad" part.

 

[EEich]

Not so sure he was talking about the overall #1 seed or just a #1 seed. Or if he was talking about being ranked #1 now, or at the time the NCAA puts out the bracket.

Hence, need his explanation.

I was talking the overall #1 seed

 

[meyers7]

I was talking the overall #1 seed

Ok, I can buy that then.